You nerds have got to give up on this abortion thing. We need more abortions not less
Uh, I support limited abortion and it's not in my top 10 priority list. You and the Margaret Sanger wing of the dem party are just as interested in abortion as Michelle Malkin. Speaking of which, what in the hell happened to her?
You need to reassess your priorities. I’ve made this plainly clear. If you’re wrong on abortion, you are just wrong as a human being. The rest of your concerns are details by comparison. Seriously think about it.
New book on the shelves, guysm! Get yours today!
Winning Hearts and Minds
- by Creepy da Cuog
Thinking this carpet bagger (for 15 or 20 years) clown is some kind of a moral authority on abortion is laughable. Nobody can agree on the definition of life. Most European countries don't allow it after 15 weeks. That's reasonable.
Lolz. A trailer park assessment of the issue. Par for Bill I guess.
I have thoughts while I’m napping that are more profound than what Bill could ever assimilate with Plato as his tutor.
#butbutbuttheeuropeans!
Same lame shtick from you as always
"You're stupid!"
Please, tell us how handsome and successful you are again. It's definitely not a sign of insecurity.
Very very handsome and fairly successful.
Pay attention dummy.
It’s really too bad that either you are as stupid as you sound or can’t take this issue seriously and come back with a thoughtful response. Perhaps you agree with me. If so, would that be so terrible? JFC … get over your obsession with my schtick.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
That is entirely bullshit. Nothing at all emotional about my take. What a crock of shit and par for the course for a shit brain loud mouth like you. You’re just saying that because you know “emotional” plays well in the tug. As for low information, how about you put your money where your big mouth is and serve up. Because I’ve said plenty and you’ve yet to step in, other than your nothing sandwich “let’s be reasonable”. This isn’t schtick; this is you talking out of your asshole and me calling you out on it.
So go ahead shit mouth. Take a position, back it up, and you’ll get a no schtick response from me. Don't blame me because you have no game. You said you read my posts, so I’m assuming you’re ready with something.
I'm pretty sure I know what's coming.
It sure seems like this is an emotional issue for you, and that’s fine. It should be. It involves human life, but I have to ask how you square one life for another. If the birth of the child is going to result in the death of the mother, is that not a reasonable scenario to allow for this procedure?
If the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, is that not a reasonable scenario to allow for this procedure?
It’s a fair question.
Let's set the emotional rhetoric to the side; that's not really relevant anyway.
Yes, I agree with you that rape/incest are tougher, and life-threatening pregnancies are the worst, situations in which to maintain a zero stance on abortion. Every instinct in my body informs me that those situations should allow for abortion. And, reaching back to the way I used to think about it, there are social reasons why abortion on demand is a good thing.
With that said, when you really and honestly think about it, if the fetus, at any stage of development, is a person, and at least I have concluded that it is, then you can't do it. If, in a situation that I had no role in creating, killing me would save you, most of us would agree that killing me is immoral. So that eliminates "to save the mother" exceptions, and if you can't get there on that one, then, unfortunately, even rape/incest is off the table as well. The key is that the fetus is a person with the same inalienable rights that you and I have. The fetus didn't rape anybody and the fetus didn't create the risky pregnancy ... other people did that.
I want to be transparent about this: I agree with you from a gut standpoint. Those are difficult situations, and part of the reason for that is that the woman is an evolved biological being with family, friends, experiences, memories, potential, etc. etc. She'll be missed. It's more painful to lose that person than it is to lose a clump of cells. I get it. But, I know of no compelling moral philosophy that justifies valuing one life over the other just because one is further along in its biological development. That's basically Ronald Dworkin's pro-abortion thesis in Life's Dominion. In a way, it's the people arguing for "saving the mother" or "it wasn't her fault, she was raped," who exalt feelings over logic and rational thought.
Note that religion has nothing whatsoever to do with my view.
That’s a fair and honest answer. Appreciate the thoughtful response.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
Your quote of my post was directed at a poster who wrote that my views on the matter were the emotional rants of a low information psychopath not interested in a "real" discussion, where that is ostensibly not the case, and laughable at best coming from him relative to me given that his grasp on the matter is fairly basic.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
It's the law in dozens of countries. You know better in your own head though. 👌
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
It's the law in dozens of countries. You know better in your own head though. 👌
I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, other than continuing to make it personal, which is a sure sign that you don't have the goods to go toe to toe with me. So if it's the law then ... what? That's the end of it? It's the law? Jim Crow was the law in southern states. Some people knew better in their heads. And, the law is changing in places where people do view this as an issue. Talk about a non-response. Do you even think though what you're about to type? It's like I'm arguing with a low-information emotional pussy hat.
Talk about your litter girls in need of a tampon change. I'm not sure you're capable of moving off of this angry guy schtick. I guess we'll see.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
It's the law in dozens of countries. You know better in your own head though. 👌
I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, other than continuing to make it personal, which is a sure sign that you don't have the good to go toe to toe with me.
Talk about your emotional litter girls in need of a tampon change. I'm not sure you're capable of moving off of this angry guy schtick. I guess we'll see.
😄
You keep beating the dead horse and seem pretty angry about it. I mentioned it in passing and if I wanted to egg you on I'd @ you. Not everything is about you. Go join the fundies at abortion clinics if you feel so strongly.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
It's the law in dozens of countries. You know better in your own head though. 👌
I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, other than continuing to make it personal, which is a sure sign that you don't have the good to go toe to toe with me.
Talk about your emotional litter girls in need of a tampon change. I'm not sure you're capable of moving off of this angry guy schtick. I guess we'll see.
😄
You keep beating the dead horse and seem pretty angry about it. I mentioned it in passing and if I wanted to egg you on I'd @ you. Not everything is about you. Go join the fundies at abortion clinics if you feel so strongly.
Neither is true. You lie and point at me because that's all you have. Like I said in the beginning, you have nothing. If you did, I have a recent post directed at chatch that lays out my position in pretty clear terms. If you had the goods, you'd go at that and make your case w/o the need for "low-information" "psychopath" "fundies" "ranting" "beating a dead horse" etc. etc.
You bring that to the discussion and basically nothing more. "My body my choice" can and does justify abortion up until the fetus is no longer tethered to the mother. So, you know, day before birth, have at it. It's a crap argument and even hard core liberals I know acknowledge it. It's the pussy hat argument. Congrats on that point of agreement. The law is fluid and flawed and is in no way a justification for anything. It's about what informs the law and what the law should be. Otherwise, we'd just freeze the books as they stand today and nothing would ever change.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
Your quote of my post was directed at a poster who wrote that my views on the matter were the emotional rants of a low information psychopath not interested in a "real" discussion, where that is ostensibly not the case, and laughable at best coming from him relative to me given that his grasp on the matter is fairly basic.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
You've had more than enough of your say. I think the points are made and the mountains cannot be moved at this point. I also believe compromise is the way forward on the abortion issue, because you are never going to convince more than half the country to make it illegal, no matter how great your argument or position is.
BTW, Nobody should ever be condemned to carry a rapist's or incestuously impregnated child if they don't want to and I think you're dead wrong, barbaric and misogynist AF to argue otherwise no matter what the circumstances.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
Your quote of my post was directed at a poster who wrote that my views on the matter were the emotional rants of a low information psychopath not interested in a "real" discussion, where that is ostensibly not the case, and laughable at best coming from him relative to me given that his grasp on the matter is fairly basic.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
You've had more than enough of your say. I think the points are made and the mountains cannot be moved at this point. I also believe compromise is the way forward on the abortion issue, because you are never going to convince more than half the country to make it illegal, no matter how great your argument or position is.
BTW, Nobody should ever be condemned to carry a rapist's or incestuously impregnated child if they don't want to and I think you're dead wrong, barbaric and misogynist AF to argue otherwise no matter what the circumstances.
Or have you forgotten that slavery is illegal?
Kreist.
How about you fuck off with that part; people word vomit the same shit here over and over 24/7/365. That is well beyond dispute.
You're dealing in practicalities of the matter, and that's fine. I don't dispute those points, and never have. I do reject your entire argument and accompanying emotional rhetoric about rape/incest, especially the analogy to slavery, for reasons I've already articulated, as you point out. Happy to discuss it like an adult, but something tells me that's not on the table, which is fine.
Viewed objectively, it seems you and your less gifted counterpart are more emotionally dialed into this than am I. I'm just making an argument that you and some others don't like.
You made your points, which if I remember correctly are that life starts the minute of conception and that abortion should be completely outlawed with no exceptions. I don't see it that way. Nobody can agree on that end of it. Your argument didn't convince me. Your obsession with Bill has been noted. Take the l. Or don't.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
Your quote of my post was directed at a poster who wrote that my views on the matter were the emotional rants of a low information psychopath not interested in a "real" discussion, where that is ostensibly not the case, and laughable at best coming from him relative to me given that his grasp on the matter is fairly basic.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
You've had more than enough of your say. I think the points are made and the mountains cannot be moved at this point. I also believe compromise is the way forward on the abortion issue, because you are never going to convince more than half the country to make it illegal, no matter how great your argument or position is.
BTW, Nobody should ever be condemned to carry a rapist's or incestuously impregnated child if they don't want to and I think you're dead wrong, barbaric and misogynist AF to argue otherwise no matter what the circumstances.
Or have you forgotten that slavery is illegal?
Kreist.
How about you fuck off with that part; people word vomit the same shit here over and over 24/7/365. That is well beyond dispute.
You're dealing in practicalities of the matter, and that's fine. I don't dispute those points, and never have. I do reject your entire argument and accompanying emotional rhetoric about rape/incest, especially the analogy to slavery, for reasons I've already articulated, as you point out. Happy to discuss it like an adult, but something tells me that's not on the table, which is fine.
Viewed objectively, it seems you and your less gifted counterpart are more emotionally dialed into this than am I. I'm just making an argument that you and some others don't like.
Everyone here should know by now I'm dead set against abortion. How people with children could ever support such a thing is beyond comprehension. Stupid people do stupid shit.
I am pro retroactive abortion for adults. I get to be the sole arbiter.
My position is limit it to the first trimester. I've said that before. I read a lot of threads in the Tug and yes, you post in some. I don't get wrapped up in it and it's not my life's crusade. It's private matter. Killing a mid or late stage fetus seems abhorrent to me so those should be banned. I don't lose sleep over what strangers do with their bodies. You seem to.
Well of course I care a lot. That's dumb.
So, "her body, her choice". And limit to first trimester because ... I don't know, seems like a good spot. Even though we're talking about infanticide here.
Got it. As I said, you got nothing.
We've all got bigger fish to fry, like surviving annual 10% inflation and locating food a year from now.
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
Your quote of my post was directed at a poster who wrote that my views on the matter were the emotional rants of a low information psychopath not interested in a "real" discussion, where that is ostensibly not the case, and laughable at best coming from him relative to me given that his grasp on the matter is fairly basic.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
You've had more than enough of your say. I think the points are made and the mountains cannot be moved at this point. I also believe compromise is the way forward on the abortion issue, because you are never going to convince more than half the country to make it illegal, no matter how great your argument or position is.
BTW, Nobody should ever be condemned to carry a rapist's or incestuously impregnated child if they don't want to and I think you're dead wrong, barbaric and misogynist AF to argue otherwise no matter what the circumstances.
Or have you forgotten that slavery is illegal?
Kreist.
How about you fuck off with that part; people word vomit the same shit here over and over 24/7/365. That is well beyond dispute.
You're dealing in practicalities of the matter, and that's fine. I don't dispute those points, and never have. I do reject your entire argument and accompanying emotional rhetoric about rape/incest, especially the analogy to slavery, for reasons I've already articulated, as you point out. Happy to discuss it like an adult, but something tells me that's not on the table, which is fine.
Viewed objectively, it seems you and your less gifted counterpart are more emotionally dialed into this than am I. I'm just making an argument that you and some others don't like.
Comments
So, no, IDNGAF about abortion rights and timelines at this point in my life. And should they become relevant to me in the future, I will support abortion in general, even though I detest it personally, because I don't want anyone telling me what I can do with my body, so reciprocity is in order.
I don't vote on abortion. That's what low info emotional types and psychos like you do, along with the fundies and leftist chicks who nobody wants to fuck. You're obsessed with it, and you're not interested in a real discussion, just some four minute internet conversion and making more flailing attempts to prove how great you are.
It's an important issue, and you are going to be just fine in one year's time. Please. Eons of time is spent/wasted in the Tug "obsessing", truly obsessing, about things enumerable, most of which you can't fry either; so I really don't see the problem with me arguing this point. For those who want to worry about starving to death or make their 200,000th post about partisan politics, the deep state and stolen elections, have at it and skip the abortion talk. IDC. But if you or anyone else is going to chime in and debate it with me, the I'm going to say what I'm going to say and DGAFF if anybody likes it or not. Hopefully you find that to be a fair stance.
Talk about your litter girls in need of a tampon change. I'm not sure you're capable of moving off of this angry guy schtick. I guess we'll see.
You keep beating the dead horse and seem pretty angry about it. I mentioned it in passing and if I wanted to egg you on I'd @ you. Not everything is about you. Go join the fundies at abortion clinics if you feel so strongly.
You bring that to the discussion and basically nothing more. "My body my choice" can and does justify abortion up until the fetus is no longer tethered to the mother. So, you know, day before birth, have at it. It's a crap argument and even hard core liberals I know acknowledge it. It's the pussy hat argument. Congrats on that point of agreement. The law is fluid and flawed and is in no way a justification for anything. It's about what informs the law and what the law should be. Otherwise, we'd just freeze the books as they stand today and nothing would ever change.
Got anything else? Didn't think so.
BTW, Nobody should ever be condemned to carry a rapist's or incestuously impregnated child if they don't want to and I think you're dead wrong, barbaric and misogynist AF to argue otherwise no matter what the circumstances.
Or have you forgotten that slavery is illegal?
Kreist.
You're dealing in practicalities of the matter, and that's fine. I don't dispute those points, and never have. I do reject your entire argument and accompanying emotional rhetoric about rape/incest, especially the analogy to slavery, for reasons I've already articulated, as you point out. Happy to discuss it like an adult, but something tells me that's not on the table, which is fine.
Viewed objectively, it seems you and your less gifted counterpart are more emotionally dialed into this than am I. I'm just making an argument that you and some others don't like.
WTF are @Sledog and @MikeDamone when I need them?
You can have your scientific argument, which I technically agree with. But it's a loser, bud.
It's all been done before and might succeed in convincing some Mississippians or Alabamans to go your way.
But could you look your own daughter or wife in the eye and say, "you're not aborting your rapist's child, and THAT'S IT!!
I didn't think so. Reality awaits your return, Creep.
I am pro retroactive abortion for adults. I get to be the sole arbiter.