LeBron
Comments
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If you command the ship and the lion's share of attention on your team, you can expect to be the first one criticized when the ship sinks due to your lack of leadership. HTH.He_Needs_More_Time said:It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment.
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This is the problem. I don't think Lebron's a great leader but I don't think leadership was the problem here. They got beat by a better team. Yes, if you swap out Jordan I think they win, but that's the only player in history I'd say that about. If only one player in history would have gotten them the victory, you just tip your cap and admit the Spurs were a better coached, developed, rested and staffed team.oregonblitzkrieg said:
If you command the ship and the lion's share of attention on your team, you can expect to be the first one criticized when the ship sinks due to your lack of leadership. HTH.He_Needs_More_Time said:It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment.
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I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
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Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way. -
That's why I think Jordan could have made the difference. I agree Lebron didn't play poorly, but he's a nice guy. Nice guys are fun to play with, which is why Wade and Bosh are with Lebron to begin with. But Bron's not giving people death stares for half assing out there. Jordan would have gotten his team up for this by sheer intimidation. The only other player I'd say was close to that was Kobe, but people hated playing with Kobe whereas they were just in awe/reverence of MJ. I think Wade, for instance, has a much better series playing alongside Jordan, Jordan would have found a way to pull it out of him.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
The part that's hard for me to decode is how much of it was Jordan and how much of it was Phil's mastery. I lean towards giving Jordan the credit but I may be underrating PJ's contribution. I don't think Spoelstra is a bad coach at all, but I don't think he's Phil Jackson either. -
Great post. How smart does Duncan look for not teaming up with Hill and McGrady now? That could have been a career killer.He_Needs_More_Time said:Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way.
Duncan is the teammate the Hooks want to believe Russell Wilson is. -
The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
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He immediately looked smart too as Hill played just 7 games that first year and was never the same.dnc said:
Great post. How smart does Duncan look for not teaming up with Hill and McGrady now? That could have been a career killer.He_Needs_More_Time said:Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way.
Duncan is the teammate the Hooks want to believe Russell Wilson is.
I remember he was killed nationally for staying loyal. It was a lot of backhanded "Duncan being a loyal great guy is going to be his undoing as Orlando was the smart move" I think Peter Vecesy(remember that cock sucker for NBC?) killed him for it.
I thought he was nuts as Shaq-Kobe proved the next three years that nobody was stopping them except for Shaq-Kobe.
Duncan is a great player who is always forgotten. I mean you see so many who is better Lebron or Kobe debates but never mind you are probably arguing for 2nd and 3rd as Duncan played in that same era.
Lebron is 29 so he has plenty of time to add to his legacy. However, historically I think it's time to put Duncan ahead of Kobe and for now ahead of Lebron. -
He averaged 28.2 PPG with a true shooting percentage of 68% for the series. Your bias take against Lebron has been documented so I'm not surprised with this.allpurpleallgold said:The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
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fucking a not this supporting cast. In 2011 and 2012, and maybe 2013 I think lebron's was better, just my opinion. Wade is now a shell of himselfHe_Needs_More_Time said:
Is Wade in his prime now? Talking about Jordan's cast being better than this current Heat squad.dhdawg said:I don't think he's definitively better than wade was in his prime
Also Wade won a title in 2006 then was headed towards Tracy Mcgrady territory.
2007- swept 1st round
2008- 15-67 record
2009- first round exit
2010- first round exit
If Lebron doesn't take his talents to Miami I think we are all viewing Wade's career a lot differently.
By no means am I dismissing Wade but I think to think he's better than Pippen career wise I don't know about that. I think in their prime for one game I probably take Wade but I'd take Pippen's career over Wade's.
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