Do you recall a single "trans-gender" student during any of your 12 years of primary, Junior high and high school?
Nope. Not one. I'm in the camp with Douglas Murray on this one. We are making permanent decisions with kids, and we are managing our culture on the basis of an all-in assumption that trans is like gay: just who you are. Murray (who is gay) says, and I agree, that we don't know much of anything about trans and we should, at the very least, be pumping the breaks on it. He also believes, as do I, that mental illness is likely a big driver, but being the academic that he is, he doens't firmly conclude on that point w/o a study. At least as far as the last talk he gave that I have watched.
Although I am not gay (I swear!) and have no gay children or siblings, I don't agree with the subtle conflation of trans and gay in the public discourse on this issue. And that's on both sides of the debate. Gay has been with us since the dawn of time, and while I believe there can be some "fashionable" joining of a lifestyle on some occasions for a period of time, it seems that homosexuality is largely a born-in trait. Trans is something else altogether from what I can tell.
This would make an excellent discussion. What have you witnessed that would indicate homosexuality is genetic? I'd say it is more environmental.
Me? Nothing at all. If someone put a study like that in front of me I wouldn't know what to do with it. My POV is entirely inferential, based largely on the following premise: being gay has almost been in most/ many cultures in most times something that would create varying levels of problems for the person who is gay. When I was growing up it was limiting, at best. It didn't make high school very pleasant, and of course we know in some barbaric cultures today it's a death sentence. It disappoints parents and it seems clear that a lot of people fight it for years before finally giving in to what seems to be their natural make-up. So, against all that, people engage in homosexual acts/relationships, and I infer from that reality that there must be some biologically driven urge to the attraction. If you're getting in on w/ some dude in Afghanistan, where you can basically make any woman be yours and where, if you're caught, you're going to get stoned to death or some shit, then I assume it's something you really want to do.
Beyond that, there's historical evidence it's been with us throughout time. In ancient Greece, gay relationships were pretty normal and, worse, those relationships between older and younger men were known and tolerated. So much so that there were culturally-imposed rules and expectations that applied to them. I won't go into what those were, but it was the case. There is ancient art that reflects this pretty clearly as well showing a younger man blocking an approaching older guy from grabbing his junk ... a culturally acceptable way of saying, "no, not into it." I guess if there was no blocking gesture that meant he was.
So, all that disturbing (to us) evidence seems to make it clear that homosexuality across the spectrum was common in ancient Greece. I think the academy with Socrates and the others was full on with it. There are lots of other examples.
Just like some dudes like certain things in women that I don't particularly find attractive, I guess those preferences can all the way to the other sex.
Just not for me.
Thanks and all of that is factually true but I still don't see how being gay is something one is born into. The attributes you find attractive in women were most likely influenced by environment not a predisposed attraction. If you were Scandinavian or Asian, you would have most likely been attracted to attributes of those ethnicities but not because it was genetic. It's just my opinion homosexuality is not genetic and is more influenced by environment.
And, honestly, that could very well be. I really don't know.
"Prevailing scientific opinion is that an individual's sexuality is determined at a very early age and that a child's teachers do not really influence this.” - St. Ronald
Do you recall a single "trans-gender" student during any of your 12 years of primary, Junior high and high school?
Nope. Not one. I'm in the camp with Douglas Murray on this one. We are making permanent decisions with kids, and we are managing our culture on the basis of an all-in assumption that trans is like gay: just who you are. Murray (who is gay) says, and I agree, that we don't know much of anything about trans and we should, at the very least, be pumping the breaks on it. He also believes, as do I, that mental illness is likely a big driver, but being the academic that he is, he doens't firmly conclude on that point w/o a study. At least as far as the last talk he gave that I have watched.
Although I am not gay (I swear!) and have no gay children or siblings, I don't agree with the subtle conflation of trans and gay in the public discourse on this issue. And that's on both sides of the debate. Gay has been with us since the dawn of time, and while I believe there can be some "fashionable" joining of a lifestyle on some occasions for a period of time, it seems that homosexuality is largely a born-in trait. Trans is something else altogether from what I can tell.
This would make an excellent discussion. What have you witnessed that would indicate homosexuality is genetic? I'd say it is more environmental.
Me? Nothing at all. If someone put a study like that in front of me I wouldn't know what to do with it. My POV is entirely inferential, based largely on the following premise: being gay has almost been in most/ many cultures in most times something that would create varying levels of problems for the person who is gay. When I was growing up it was limiting, at best. It didn't make high school very pleasant, and of course we know in some barbaric cultures today it's a death sentence. It disappoints parents and it seems clear that a lot of people fight it for years before finally giving in to what seems to be their natural make-up. So, against all that, people engage in homosexual acts/relationships, and I infer from that reality that there must be some biologically driven urge to the attraction. If you're getting in on w/ some dude in Afghanistan, where you can basically make any woman be yours and where, if you're caught, you're going to get stoned to death or some shit, then I assume it's something you really want to do.
Beyond that, there's historical evidence it's been with us throughout time. In ancient Greece, gay relationships were pretty normal and, worse, those relationships between older and younger men were known and tolerated. So much so that there were culturally-imposed rules and expectations that applied to them. I won't go into what those were, but it was the case. There is ancient art that reflects this pretty clearly as well showing a younger man blocking an approaching older guy from grabbing his junk ... a culturally acceptable way of saying, "no, not into it." I guess if there was no blocking gesture that meant he was.
So, all that disturbing (to us) evidence seems to make it clear that homosexuality across the spectrum was common in ancient Greece. I think the academy with Socrates and the others was full on with it. There are lots of other examples.
Just like some dudes like certain things in women that I don't particularly find attractive, I guess those preferences can all the way to the other sex.
Just not for me.
Thanks and all of that is factually true but I still don't see how being gay is something one is born into. The attributes you find attractive in women were most likely influenced by environment not a predisposed attraction. If you were Scandinavian or Asian, you would have most likely been attracted to attributes of those ethnicities but not because it was genetic. It's just my opinion homosexuality is not genetic and is more influenced by environment.
If it was genetic, they would have found the gene and then the gays would be screaming about parents either aborting gay babies or genetically altering kids to turn off the gay gene. Sort of like some deaf people have a problem with curing deaf people. I think its largely environmental.
This would send the pro choice crowd into an absolute tailspin.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
Sexual orientation appears to be heavily influenced by biological factors, some of which are prenatal.
BS. You have no proof of a gay gene existing and never will. You can blame your parents for how ugly you are not for being born with a hatred of women.
You can read and reread what I said and you still won't find the word "gene" or "genetic".
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.
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The dazzler: If I bought her the yarn, could she make me one too?
Genetics may explain why you're a moron, but that's a different subject.