Soccer mom's largely don't drive minivans. They're the most practical vehicle for a family, and also completely dorky. Tried to convince my beard to get one and she will not be caught dead driving one.
I know, I was kidding. And I know exactly what you're talking about. I have a brother and at least four friends who REALLY want one. In every case, it's the wife putting the foot down. Marketing has convinced them that they'll immediately become less sexually attractive and independent if they get behind the wheel of a minivan.
The reality that escapes them is that they already got less sexually attractive and independent when they had kids and got fat, so they might as well drive something that makes their lives easier...
So I live in the Mercedes Sprinter Van capital of the free world. What did they do to make those cool? I feel like the mini van could be made to be cool, but they are just generic looking blob of steel at the moment except for VW.
Again, marketing. For starters, because of the high roof and rear door design, they became synonymous with adventure sports: there are never fewer than a half dozen of them in the mountain bike park lot that I drive by every day. When people think of Sprinters, they think "active, outdoor" people, not please-kill-me-because-I-just-live-for-my-kids-now rolling coffins. I'll admit, a LWB high roof Sprinter is my lottery car. I'd ditch the race trailer and never look back! I've fit a lot of shit in the minivan, but a 420 lb. bike isn't one of them.
I think I've posted this article here before. 2004 New Yorker article by Malcolm Gladwell. The beginning part, at least, is really fascinating in that it quotes auto executives and marketers and engineers. The contempt they have for their customers is eye opening.
@1to392831weretaken van hawt takes are some of my favorite posts on this site.
Soccer mom's largely don't drive minivans. They're the most practical vehicle for a family, and also completely dorky. Tried to convince my beard to get one and she will not be caught dead driving one.
I know, I was kidding. And I know exactly what you're talking about. I have a brother and at least four friends who REALLY want one. In every case, it's the wife putting the foot down. Marketing has convinced them that they'll immediately become less sexually attractive and independent if they get behind the wheel of a minivan.
The reality that escapes them is that they already got less sexually attractive and independent when they had kids and got fat, so they might as well drive something that makes their lives easier...
So I live in the Mercedes Sprinter Van capital of the free world. What did they do to make those cool? I feel like the mini van could be made to be cool, but they are just generic looking blob of steel at the moment except for VW.
Again, marketing. For starters, because of the high roof and rear door design, they became synonymous with adventure sports: there are never fewer than a half dozen of them in the mountain bike park lot that I drive by every day. When people think of Sprinters, they think "active, outdoor" people, not please-kill-me-because-I-just-live-for-my-kids-now rolling coffins. I'll admit, a LWB high roof Sprinter is my lottery car. I'd ditch the race trailer and never look back! I've fit a lot of shit in the minivan, but a 420 lb. bike isn't one of them.
I think I've posted this article here before. 2004 New Yorker article by Malcolm Gladwell. The beginning part, at least, is really fascinating in that it quotes auto executives and marketers and engineers. The contempt they have for their customers is eye opening.
Bought the wife a 3 yr old Pilot. Great fucking car, tons of room, fits up to 8 if necessary. Put both kids through HS and dozens of soccer tournaments all over the PNW.
Yakima/Thule box on top and ski trips are a breeze. Fast, reliable, great mileage, very fast 0 to 60, great visibility, good stereo, fucking thing goes anywhere and everything works. All I've done is change the oil, filters and changed the plugs once.
Also found a handful of my son's Trojan wrappers behind the back seat, so it's good for that, too. Great family car, indeed.
We test drove a pilot back in 2015. Nice ride but the driver seat is not tall people friendly. It’s designed for like 5’6” soccer mom.
Bought the wife a 3 yr old Pilot. Great fucking car, tons of room, fits up to 8 if necessary. Put both kids through HS and dozens of soccer tournaments all over the PNW.
Yakima/Thule box on top and ski trips are a breeze. Fast, reliable, great mileage, very fast 0 to 60, great visibility, good stereo, fucking thing goes anywhere and everything works. All I've done is change the oil, filters and changed the plugs once.
Also found a handful of my son's Trojan wrappers behind the back seat, so it's good for that, too. Great family car, indeed.
We test drove a pilot back in 2015. Nice ride but the driver seat is not tall people friendly. It’s designed for like 5’6” soccer mom.
My wife is just under 5-9 and my Trojan-wrapper-littering son is 5-11. I don't drive it much, but that power seat is helladjustable.
I was impressed with it's speed going up big hills. That thing flies up Queen Anne, Beacon and High Point. 25 mph? My ass, SDOT.
Soccer mom's largely don't drive minivans. They're the most practical vehicle for a family, and also completely dorky. Tried to convince my beard to get one and she will not be caught dead driving one.
I know, I was kidding. And I know exactly what you're talking about. I have a brother and at least four friends who REALLY want one. In every case, it's the wife putting the foot down. Marketing has convinced them that they'll immediately become less sexually attractive and independent if they get behind the wheel of a minivan.
The reality that escapes them is that they already got less sexually attractive and independent when they had kids and got fat, so they might as well drive something that makes their lives easier...
So I live in the Mercedes Sprinter Van capital of the free world. What did they do to make those cool? I feel like the mini van could be made to be cool, but they are just generic looking blob of steel at the moment except for VW.
Again, marketing. For starters, because of the high roof and rear door design, they became synonymous with adventure sports: there are never fewer than a half dozen of them in the mountain bike park lot that I drive by every day. When people think of Sprinters, they think "active, outdoor" people, not please-kill-me-because-I-just-live-for-my-kids-now rolling coffins. I'll admit, a LWB high roof Sprinter is my lottery car. I'd ditch the race trailer and never look back! I've fit a lot of shit in the minivan, but a 420 lb. bike isn't one of them.
I think I've posted this article here before. 2004 New Yorker article by Malcolm Gladwell. The beginning part, at least, is really fascinating in that it quotes auto executives and marketers and engineers. The contempt they have for their customers is eye opening.
Sprinter vans are for delivery of cannabis plants and flowers.
Friends I’ve known say land rovers are just plain fucked up engineering. Things like to replace a tire you have to disconnect the taillights and catalytic converter. Look bad ass and better off road than a jeep, but they break easily.
Another friend owned a porche and changing the spark plugs was like 1500 bucks. Had to lower the engine to get to them so some stupid shit.
Buy American, please. At the very least, buy a foreign brand that is made by your fellow Americans somewhere in our beautiful country.
USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
American vehicles mostly are overpriced garbage...even after the government bailed out the US auto industry (GM, Chrysler) in 2008. US auto makers have no incentive to make better vehicles because the government will bail them out if needed.
Scotty is on the spectrum and a well known Toyota dick sucker.
Most any new car built today will last a long time. The stuff about crap GM versus the Japanese quality is schtick at this point. Some cars are better than others as far as touch/feel of interior parts, but there aren't many new models built today that are junkers off the lot. Example from JD Power on long-term dependability. Most manufacturers are right at or below average these days. VW, Alfa, Jag, and Land Rover are all shit still, which is par for the course.
I do agree on the overpriced comment for a lot of US automaker cars I looked at recently. Seems like most are $2-3k more than the Japanese/Korean equivalents.
Fair enough. But he does talk up Lexus just as much. Both Toyota are Lexus are far superior to their American counterparts in many areas including reliability over time. As well as, he is very informed concerning car maintenance and repairs with his mechanic history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PlFJ07HgcA Why Did The American Car Industry Fail? The USA is used to produce worlds best cars back in '50s and '60s. Now, if you look at the American car companies, not only they don’t have any significant portion of the foreign market, they can’t even dominate in their domestic market. So why do American car companies are failing so miserably?
The next level of soccer mom SUVs for 2022- Jeep Wagoneer???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6CCBN4BKQs TheStraightPipes: 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series 3 review by The Straight Pipes. The 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer is putting down 471 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque from a 6.4L V8. At $120,995 CAD, would you take it over the Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, BMW X7 or Mercedes GLS? The Jeep Wagoneer is a slightly less luxurious version of this with a 5.7L V8 that competes with the Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Ford Expedition.
Friends I’ve known say land rovers are just plain fucked up engineering. Things like to replace a tire you have to disconnect the taillights and catalytic converter. Look bad ass and better off road than a jeep, but they break easily.
Another friend owned a porche and changing the spark plugs was like 1500 bucks. Had to lower the engine to get to them so some stupid shit.
Two points of contention. I do not think a Land Rover is better off road than a Jeep. A Rubicon is still the most capable off road machine per dollar spent you can buy. And is just straight up better than a Defender. And anything else besides a Defender (in the Land Rover catalogue fix for @YellowSnow ) is a mall crawler not an off road machine. Live axles will always beat IFS. Rubicons are geared MUCH better and have much better articulation. Approach and departure angles are a wash. Nothing beats a Rubicon off road for anywhere near the same money. I've rock crawled my entire life and seen everything there is on the trails. 30 years ago yes Defenders and FJs were as good or better. Not now.
Second. There will be no shit talk of Porsche, even if it's true. And to be fair I think Porsche maintenance costs are in line with their overall cost. Sure they are quite a bit higher than Toyota, but these are 150-200K cars, not 30K Camry's. Talk to Ferrari guys about absurd maintenance costs. Want true insanity? Buy a Bugatti Veyron. 21K for an oil change.
The next level of soccer mom SUVs for 2022- Jeep Wagoneer???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6CCBN4BKQs TheStraightPipes: 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series 3 review by The Straight Pipes. The 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer is putting down 471 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque from a 6.4L V8. At $120,995 CAD, would you take it over the Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, BMW X7 or Mercedes GLS? The Jeep Wagoneer is a slightly less luxurious version of this with a 5.7L V8 that competes with the Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Ford Expedition.
IFL the new Wagoneer but cannot wrap my brain around paying 120K on a Jeep. At one point two years ago I owned 5 Jeeps at once! There is no bigger Jeep fan than me but 120k? Wow. I couldn't do it I don't think.
Two points of contention. I do not think a Land Rover is better off road than a Jeep. A Rubicon is still the most capable off road machine per dollar spent you can buy. And is just straight up better than a Defender. And anything else besides a Defender is a mall crawler not an off road machine. Live axles will always beat IFS. Rubicons are geared MUCH better and have much better articulation. Approach and departure angles are a wash. Nothing beats a Rubicon off road for anywhere near the same money. I've rock crawled my entire life and seen everything there is on the trails. 30 years ago yes Defenders and FJs were as good or better. Not now.
Second. There will be no shit talk of Porsche, even if it's true. And to be fair I think Porsche maintenance costs are in line with their overall cost. Sure they are quite a bit higher than Toyota, but these are 150-200K cars, not 30K Camry's. Talk to Ferrari guys about absurd maintenance costs. Want true insanity? Buy a Bugatti Veyron. 21K for an oil change.
Reverse order: I thought it was the Porsche Boxter that had the insane maintenance cost due to having to drop the engine to get to the spark plugs and oil filter. It's a mid-engine layout vs. their traditional rear-engine, though. That being said, it's just a rumor I heard decades ago and never verified. I have to admit, I have a similar affinity for Porsches as you, mostly from being sucked into hours and hours of watching Sabine Schmitz (RIP) lay waste to the Nordschleife in a GT3 RSR among countless other Nordschleife laps viewed. My anecdotal evidence is that, perhaps more than any other high end sports cars, Porsche owners actually drive their cars in anger. You have to look to a Challenge Stradale or something like an Ariel Atom (yum) or BAC Mono (YUUUUUUUUM) to get closer to a race car with a plate than a GT3 RS or GT2 RS. I love that Porsche seems to cultivate a "drive the piss out of these" culture vs. "collect these" culture of more exotic brands.
Live axles: Curious why better? Doesn't it negatively impact ground clearance, with the differential being the lowest and most exposed point? Tube frame, purpose-built hillclimb machines look to be live axle front and rear, so you must be onto something. On the other hand, trophy trucks are IFS and live axle rear. Have you ever played around on a side-by-side? I used to think they were stupid until a buddy of mine took me out on a drunk, night time blast through his narrow trail system, sideways and drifting 100% of the time and soaking up 3 ft. drops like they're not even there. These things are amazing fun, and I'm no longer surprised that they're selling like the proverbial hot cakes, even at prices that make no sense:
Friends I’ve known say land rovers are just plain fucked up engineering. Things like to replace a tire you have to disconnect the taillights and catalytic converter. Look bad ass and better off road than a jeep, but they break easily.
Another friend owned a porche and changing the spark plugs was like 1500 bucks. Had to lower the engine to get to them so some stupid shit.
Two points of contention. I do not think a Land Rover is better off road than a Jeep. A Rubicon is still the most capable off road machine per dollar spent you can buy. And is just straight up better than a Defender. And anything else besides a Defender is a mall crawler not an off road machine. Live axles will always beat IFS. Rubicons are geared MUCH better and have much better articulation. Approach and departure angles are a wash. Nothing beats a Rubicon off road for anywhere near the same money. I've rock crawled my entire life and seen everything there is on the trails. 30 years ago yes Defenders and FJs were as good or better. Not now.
Second. There will be no shit talk of Porsche, even if it's true. And to be fair I think Porsche maintenance costs are in line with their overall cost. Sure they are quite a bit higher than Toyota, but these are 150-200K cars, not 30K Camry's. Talk to Ferrari guys about absurd maintenance costs. Want true insanity? Buy a Bugatti Veyron. 21K for an oil change.
Porsches also feel like I’m in an episode of knight rider from 1987. In fact I was stunned by how…cheap the interior felt. I kept thinking this is really a Golf with a boob job.
Reverse order: I thought it was the Porsche Boxter that had the insane maintenance cost due to having to drop the engine to get to the spark plugs and oil filter. It's a mid-engine layout vs. their traditional rear-engine, though. That being said, it's just a rumor I heard decades ago and never verified. I have to admit, I have a similar affinity for Porsches as you, mostly from being sucked into hours and hours of watching Sabine Schmitz (RIP) lay waste to the Nordschleife in a GT3 RSR among countless other Nordschleife laps viewed. My anecdotal evidence is that, perhaps more than any other high end sports cars, Porsche owners actually drive their cars in anger. You have to look to a Challenge Stradale or something like an Ariel Atom (yum) or BAC Mono (YUUUUUUUUM) to get closer to a race car with a plate than a GT3 RS or GT2 RS. I love that Porsche seems to cultivate a "drive the piss out of these" culture vs. "collect these" culture of more exotic brands.
Live axles: Curious why better? Doesn't it negatively impact ground clearance, with the differential being the lowest and most exposed point? Tube frame, purpose-built hillclimb machines look to be live axle front and rear, so you must be onto something. On the other hand, trophy trucks are IFS and live axle rear. Have you ever played around on a side-by-side? I used to think they were stupid until a buddy of mine took me out on a drunk, night time blast through his narrow trail system, sideways and drifting 100% of the time and soaking up 3 ft. drops like they're not even there. These things are amazing fun, and I'm no longer surprised that they're selling like the proverbial hot cakes, even at prices that make no sense:
Oh yeah, soccer mom SUVs...
Porsche maintenance costs certainly aren't low, but they aren't crazy either. Yearly oil change and service is like 400-500 bucks. Every two years drain and flush the brake lines with oil change. 800 bucks. 4 and 6 year maintenance takes a bite, especially if you have a baller 4S (AWD service comes then). But again, reasonable considering the quality and price of the cars. This is 911 I am speaking about. No idea on Boxter/Cayman. And yes, one of the things I deeply appreciate about Porsche is that they are the most "tracked" 150k+ sports car in the world and it isn't close. 98% of Lambo and Ferrari owners have never seen a redline hit. They see a bunch of wax though. Porsches are driven and driven hard. It's a badge of honor. I think a good bit of that owes to corporate philosophy, to price points of entry (Porsche are very expensive but the high end of Porsche is Ferrari's entry point), and quality of the car. You can drive a Porsche hard without breaking it and if you do it won't require you to take out a second mortgage to fix. Ferraris and Lambo are notoriously expensive to maintain and finicky. I think their owners are rightfully scared to really get serious with them.
Live axles are stronger (or can be built stronger) than any IFS ever built, and while they "can" have less ground clearance (that's what bigger tires are for), the tradeoff in articulation is staggering. There is just so much aftermarket support for getting extremely beefy live axles for relatively cheap that they are unmatched in strength and articulation. Get a set of custom Dana 70s, throw some 44's on there and let her rip. Plus Jeep crawl gearing is so much lower than almost anything else. Jeeps are just the bread and butter platform for offroad performance. But, old Defenders and FJs still give me a boner.
Friends I’ve known say land rovers are just plain fucked up engineering. Things like to replace a tire you have to disconnect the taillights and catalytic converter. Look bad ass and better off road than a jeep, but they break easily.
Another friend owned a porche and changing the spark plugs was like 1500 bucks. Had to lower the engine to get to them so some stupid shit.
Two points of contention. I do not think a Land Rover is better off road than a Jeep. A Rubicon is still the most capable off road machine per dollar spent you can buy. And is just straight up better than a Defender. And anything else besides a Defender is a mall crawler not an off road machine. Live axles will always beat IFS. Rubicons are geared MUCH better and have much better articulation. Approach and departure angles are a wash. Nothing beats a Rubicon off road for anywhere near the same money. I've rock crawled my entire life and seen everything there is on the trails. 30 years ago yes Defenders and FJs were as good or better. Not now.
Second. There will be no shit talk of Porsche, even if it's true. And to be fair I think Porsche maintenance costs are in line with their overall cost. Sure they are quite a bit higher than Toyota, but these are 150-200K cars, not 30K Camry's. Talk to Ferrari guys about absurd maintenance costs. Want true insanity? Buy a Bugatti Veyron. 21K for an oil change.
Porsches also feel like I’m in an episode of knight rider from 1987. In fact I was stunned by how…cheap the interior felt. I kept thinking this is really a Golf with a boob job.
Really? Porsche leather is pretty well known for being exceptional. If you go sit in a 911 and then sit in a top of the line Vette (even the new one I have a buddy who owns one) it takes about 12 seconds to see which interior is superior, and it isn't the Vette. I will admit the interior of a 911 won't be confused with a luxury Mercedes or a Bentley though.
Comments
I was impressed with it's speed going up big hills. That thing flies up Queen Anne, Beacon and High Point. 25 mph? My ass, SDOT.
Not people.
Why would you spend money on your wife’s car?
Fuck that.
Friends I’ve known say land rovers are just plain fucked up engineering. Things like to replace a tire you have to disconnect the taillights and catalytic converter. Look bad ass and better off road than a jeep, but they break easily.
Another friend owned a porche and changing the spark plugs was like 1500 bucks. Had to lower the engine to get to them so some stupid shit.
Why Did The American Car Industry Fail? The USA is used to produce worlds best cars back in '50s and '60s. Now, if you look at the American car companies, not only they don’t have any significant portion of the foreign market, they can’t even dominate in their domestic market. So why do American car companies are failing so miserably?
TheStraightPipes: 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series 3 review by The Straight Pipes. The 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer is putting down 471 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque from a 6.4L V8. At $120,995 CAD, would you take it over the Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, BMW X7 or Mercedes GLS? The Jeep Wagoneer is a slightly less luxurious version of this with a 5.7L V8 that competes with the Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Ford Expedition.
I would love one of these some day
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-land-rover-defender-vs-2019-jeep-wrangler-rubicon/
Second. There will be no shit talk of Porsche, even if it's true. And to be fair I think Porsche maintenance costs are in line with their overall cost. Sure they are quite a bit higher than Toyota, but these are 150-200K cars, not 30K Camry's. Talk to Ferrari guys about absurd maintenance costs. Want true insanity? Buy a Bugatti Veyron. 21K for an oil change.
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/watch-how-the-21-000-27-hour-oil-change-is-done-on-a-bugatti-veyron-ar181881.html
Live axles: Curious why better? Doesn't it negatively impact ground clearance, with the differential being the lowest and most exposed point? Tube frame, purpose-built hillclimb machines look to be live axle front and rear, so you must be onto something. On the other hand, trophy trucks are IFS and live axle rear. Have you ever played around on a side-by-side? I used to think they were stupid until a buddy of mine took me out on a drunk, night time blast through his narrow trail system, sideways and drifting 100% of the time and soaking up 3 ft. drops like they're not even there. These things are amazing fun, and I'm no longer surprised that they're selling like the proverbial hot cakes, even at prices that make no sense:
Oh yeah, soccer mom SUVs...
Had an Audi A4 circa 2009 to 2014. Loved that vehicle. Should have bumped up to the A5 but wasn't @HarveyRoad rich at the time.
The Germans make good shit.
Porsches also feel like I’m in an episode of knight rider from 1987. In fact I was stunned by how…cheap the interior felt. I kept thinking this is really a Golf with a boob job.
Live axles are stronger (or can be built stronger) than any IFS ever built, and while they "can" have less ground clearance (that's what bigger tires are for), the tradeoff in articulation is staggering. There is just so much aftermarket support for getting extremely beefy live axles for relatively cheap that they are unmatched in strength and articulation. Get a set of custom Dana 70s, throw some 44's on there and let her rip. Plus Jeep crawl gearing is so much lower than almost anything else. Jeeps are just the bread and butter platform for offroad performance. But, old Defenders and FJs still give me a boner.
Do this in an IFS Defender or Bronco:
My love for you is strong. Like my boner.