Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
Yep. I also saw it in law school, where reaching for a kid who isn't ready can be a particularly rude awakening. The skills you need in law school are harder to tutor and practice while you're there. Unlike math, law school draws on your ability to read a lot, get it, and move on. It also requires good writing skills, and the kids who do well tend to be, for a lack of a better term, "informed" and a little more "worldly" than the average person. They have a basic understanding of government systems, they they're decently well read, they have good vocabulary, etc. etc. In fact, sometimes kids who were engineers and were shielded from classes that pushed them on these other skills sometimes struggle too.
UW LS has always punched above its rankings weight in terms of how hard it is to get in. The numbers were comparable to much higher ranked schools like Duke or Georgetown. During my years, just before Initiative 200 passed in WA, the LS reached really far down the order for diversity candidates. Presumably because any AA or NA or Hispanic kid with talent would often (not always) go to higher ranked schools like UCLA or Boalt or one of many back east. Two of them I'm thinking about now really, really struggled. It was 3 years of obvious hell. They have have a JD, but I am sure that the experience did them no favors, and neither are practicing attorneys.
There's another version of affirmative action to which I'm not opposed, but that's a different thread.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
Yep. I also saw it in law school, where reaching for a kid who isn't ready can be a particularly rude awakening. The skills you need in law school are harder to tutor and practice while you're there. Unlike math, law school draws on your ability to read a lot, get it, and move on. It also requires good writing skills, and the kids who do well tend to be, for a lack of a better term, "informed" and a little more "worldly" than the average person. They have a basic understanding of government systems, they they're decently well read, they have good vocabulary, etc. etc. In fact, sometimes kids who were engineers and were shielded from classes that pushed them on these other skills sometimes struggle too.
UW LS has always punched above its rankings weight in terms of how hard it is to get in. The numbers were comparable to much higher ranked schools like Duke or Georgetown. During my years, just before Initiative 200 passed in WA, the LS reached really far down the order for diversity candidates. Presumably because any AA or NA or Hispanic kid with talent would often (not always) go to higher ranked schools like UCLA or Boalt or one of many back east. Two of them I'm thinking about now really, really struggled. It was 3 years of obvious hell. They have have a JD, but I am sure that the experience did them no favors, and neither are practicing attorneys.
There's another version of affirmative action to which I'm not opposed, but that's a different thread.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
Yep. I also saw it in law school, where reaching for a kid who isn't ready can be a particularly rude awakening. The skills you need in law school are harder to tutor and practice while you're there. Unlike math, law school draws on your ability to read a lot, get it, and move on. It also requires good writing skills, and the kids who do well tend to be, for a lack of a better term, "informed" and a little more "worldly" than the average person. They have a basic understanding of government systems, they they're decently well read, they have good vocabulary, etc. etc. In fact, sometimes kids who were engineers and were shielded from classes that pushed them on these other skills sometimes struggle too.
UW LS has always punched above its rankings weight in terms of how hard it is to get in. The numbers were comparable to much higher ranked schools like Duke or Georgetown. During my years, just before Initiative 200 passed in WA, the LS reached really far down the order for diversity candidates. Presumably because any AA or NA or Hispanic kid with talent would often (not always) go to higher ranked schools like UCLA or Boalt or one of many back east. Two of them I'm thinking about now really, really struggled. It was 3 years of obvious hell. They have have a JD, but I am sure that the experience did them no favors, and neither are practicing attorneys.
There's another version of affirmative action to which I'm not opposed, but that's a different thread.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Only because she was being crammed down our throats and a great intellect and legal superstar did I bother to look any deeper. She struggled at school and her work was mediocre at best. The most concise assessment of Michelle's academic career was penned by the late Christopher Hitchens when he commented on her Senior thesis.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Only because she was being crammed down our throats and a great intellect and legal superstar did I bother to look any deeper. She struggled at school and her work was mediocre at best. The most concise assessment of Michelle's academic career was penned by the late Christopher Hitchens when he commented on her Senior thesis.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
Quite honestly, I don't have a big problem with affirmative action or giving a hand up to those who may not have started at the same spot on the social/economic/coolness scale.
In fact, it will fuel me. Because life is a race and I'll grind it out and kick your ass over time. IDNGAF if you have an Ivy degree or you were born into abject poverty. Let's get it on and be the best we can be.
I do have a problem if over and over and over again, you want to restart the game because you missed kickoff. Or didn't understand that the scorekeeper just put 2 more touchdowns on your side of the scoreboard.
And the same holds true for homeless people or drug addicts or whoever, regardless of color. Get up to where you can go mano a mano and then quit whining if you can't keep up.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Only because she was being crammed down our throats and a great intellect and legal superstar did I bother to look any deeper. She struggled at school and her work was mediocre at best. The most concise assessment of Michelle's academic career was penned by the late Christopher Hitchens when he commented on her Senior thesis.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
Quite honestly, I don't have a big problem with affirmative action or giving a hand up to those who may not have started at the same spot on the social/economic/coolness scale.
In fact, it will fuel me. Because life is a race and I'll grind it out and kick your ass over time. IDNGAF if you have an Ivy degree or you were born into abject poverty. Let's get it on and be the best we can be.
I do have a problem if over and over and over again, you want to restart the game because you missed kickoff. Or didn't understand that the scorekeeper just put 2 more touchdowns on your side of the scoreboard.
And the same holds true for homeless people or drug addicts or whoever, regardless of color. Get up to where you can go mano a mano and then quit whining if you can't keep up.
Agreed, but it should be based on class and not skin color. The people who fight the hardest against that and who want to maintain race based AA are all good liberals because they know there are a hell of lot of poor whites and Asians who would benefit from a class based AA policy and their are plenty of middle class blacks who would be hurt by it.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Only because she was being crammed down our throats and a great intellect and legal superstar did I bother to look any deeper. She struggled at school and her work was mediocre at best. The most concise assessment of Michelle's academic career was penned by the late Christopher Hitchens when he commented on her Senior thesis.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
She does seem to carry a chip on her shoulder. I have heard that about her thesis. I'm all for deconstructing institutions and paradigms and all that, and so, sure, it's ok to question how we measure intelligence, what we should be studying, etc. etc. It's ok, for example, to question and argue, why "the great books" are the "great books". Are there other books that bring new perspectives, etc. etc.
That said, this knee-jerk reaction of "all my failures are because of institutionalized racism" is too simple and unacceptably ubiquitous. I don't believe it. My daughter's freshman year roommate from Boston attended a well-known Mass. boarding school, and she did very well at the very selective college they attended together. If Michelle couldn't handle Princeton, even in the 1980s, it's because she wasn't prepared to be there. Telling black kids that all their short-comings are because white people hate them is a huge disservice to those kids. It's not like "You don't belong here and never will." It's "You don't belong here because you didn't do the things that kids do to be prepared to be here."
One of my kids is Princeton level. Another could have been with slight behavior/attitude changes and the other would have been a reach even with the effort. The Princeton-level kid has talent, but also worked hard basically all through secondary school and took the hardest route you can take. I can't tell you where the talent line and lifetime of training lines are. But there is something you get from spending years busting your ass at a high level that you can't get in some summer diversity bootcamp experience. It just doesn't happen that way.
Here is what the Oakland Tribune had to say in 2003 around the performance of students in OUSD, during the early charter years, compared to the most recent data found in the current OUSD LCAP.
Thousands of Oakland high school students and parents celebrated graduation this month. But 75 percent of the ninth-graders on the books in 1998 had nothing to celebrate on graduation day four years later, according to new school district records released to The Oakland Tribune…
The district’s new records show Oakland almost totally failed to graduate students with the credits they need to get into state universities or University of California schools. Only 7 percent of the freshmen who started school in 1998 graduated four years later with the classes they need on their transcripts to get into state or UC schools. For African-American students, that percentage shrinks to less than 3 percent… That means fewer than three out of every 100 black freshmen graduated on time from city schools with enough credits to get into college. The numbers are even lower for black male students.
The Good Old Days-1.7% UC/CSU eligibility for Black males, .5% eligibility for Latino males, a 1% reclassification rate
That is an abortion. 75%. JFC. And just down the road from what is universally acknowledged as the greatest public university on the planet.
Yeah, that few if any of the kids from Oakland Unified are qualified to attend. But don't worry, we'll get them in with affirmative action and they'll have no problem competing against the best of the best.
One of the many challenges presented by affirmative action. That, and the incredible imposter syndrome it creates in its beneficiaries.
I'm sure you've seen the numbers where they take kids who would have done perfectly fine in a lower tier academic setting like a Cal State or even a UC Santa Cruz and put them into Berkeley on account of their skin color and they sink like a stone and either end up dropping out or they gravitate toward some worthless Black studies major. Of course their failure is then blamed on systemic white racism and white supremacy.
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
IDK the history of Michelle all that well, or at all, because she's not a character I've found even remotely interesting. Her husband is another matter.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
Only because she was being crammed down our throats and a great intellect and legal superstar did I bother to look any deeper. She struggled at school and her work was mediocre at best. The most concise assessment of Michelle's academic career was penned by the late Christopher Hitchens when he commented on her Senior thesis.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
Quite honestly, I don't have a big problem with affirmative action or giving a hand up to those who may not have started at the same spot on the social/economic/coolness scale.
In fact, it will fuel me. Because life is a race and I'll grind it out and kick your ass over time. IDNGAF if you have an Ivy degree or you were born into abject poverty. Let's get it on and be the best we can be.
I do have a problem if over and over and over again, you want to restart the game because you missed kickoff. Or didn't understand that the scorekeeper just put 2 more touchdowns on your side of the scoreboard.
And the same holds true for homeless people or drug addicts or whoever, regardless of color. Get up to where you can go mano a mano and then quit whining if you can't keep up.
Yes. Great post. It almost makes up for the Kathleen Turner post in the Shoppe.
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
I should have said "always" better than shit-tier public, but stick to "often" better than top-quality public. I'm not talking independent prep schools masquerading as Catholic schools, like Villa Academy or Holy Names or Seattle Prep, or even Eastside Catholic.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kids educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
I should have said "always" better than shit-tier public, but stick to "often" better than top-quality public. I'm not talking independent prep schools masquerading as Catholic schools, like Villa Academy or Holy Names or Seattle Prep, or even Eastside Catholic.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kid's educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
Truth. In The Throbber's home village, the Catholic school was m'eh. Good but not OMG success for life. The brains went to the rich white kid public school.
Better teachers generally flowed from the Catholic schools to the public schools since the bennies were better and the pay considerably higher.
That was a gazillion years ago so somewhat more balanced now. But rich white kid public schools will always have more resources and numbers to offer higher end offerings than the Catlicks. It's why the leftists are killing the AP/System racist programs in Boston and will start down the same path elsewhere. Easier to perpetuate the whitey evil narrative that way.
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
I should have said "always" better than shit-tier public, but stick to "often" better than top-quality public. I'm not talking independent prep schools masquerading as Catholic schools, like Villa Academy or Holy Names or Seattle Prep, or even Eastside Catholic.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kid's educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
Truth. In The Throbber's home village, the Catholic school was m'eh. Good but not OMG success for life. The brains went to the rich white kid public school.
Better teachers generally flowed from the Catholic schools to the public schools to the public schools since the bennies were better and the pay considerably higher.
That was a gazillion years ago so somewhat more balanced now. But rich white kid public schools will always have more resources and numbers to offer higher end offerings than the Catlicks. It's why the leftists are killing the AP/System racist programs in Boston and will start down the same path elsewhere. Easier to perpetuate the whitey evil narrative that way.
States like Utah and Iowa spend far less per pupil than do states like New York and Illinois but for some weird reason grades and test scores are higher in Utah. If you've never read the history of the Kansas City school district that was taken over by a Federal Judge where he had the authority to levy taxes and increase the spending for that school district you should do so. Lack of spending isn't the problem.
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
I should have said "always" better than shit-tier public, but stick to "often" better than top-quality public. I'm not talking independent prep schools masquerading as Catholic schools, like Villa Academy or Holy Names or Seattle Prep, or even Eastside Catholic.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kid's educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
Truth. In The Throbber's home village, the Catholic school was m'eh. Good but not OMG success for life. The brains went to the rich white kid public school.
Better teachers generally flowed from the Catholic schools to the public schools to the public schools since the bennies were better and the pay considerably higher.
That was a gazillion years ago so somewhat more balanced now. But rich white kid public schools will always have more resources and numbers to offer higher end offerings than the Catlicks. It's why the leftists are killing the AP/System racist programs in Boston and will start down the same path elsewhere. Easier to perpetuate the whitey evil narrative that way.
States like Utah and Iowa spend far less per pupil than do states like New York and Illinois but for some weird reason grades and test scores are higher in Utah. If you've never read the history of the Kansas City school district that was taken over by a Federal Judge where he had the authority to levy taxes and increase the spending for that school district you should do so. Lack of spending isn't the problem.
Any conversation trying to get at what "it" is that needs to be done should, in fairness, weed out the demographic factor, at least as it relates to affluence. For example, it should surprise nobody that Mercer Island High School has high test scores and an amazing placement record. 85% of the parents are Type A high achievers and highly educated people.
Utah and Iowa may have those kinds of schools, but I'm guessing they just do "it" better.
So you guys are cool with schools closing? I got a different impression as you were using kids to score political points during the pandemic.
The point is choice. If there is a good public school - and there are good public schools just to take that off the table - nearby, then that school's funding is probably not going to suffer and that charter school probably will choose to site somewhere else.
I view is as alternative of offering help where it's needed. If it's not needed, then it's not needed. But where they are, they're subscribed, and for a reason.
I see no reason to spare any type of school that is mailing it in, be it public or private. If a good charter school sucks funding from a shit-performing public, that's the market at work and a good result. Let the public school get its shit together and compete.
We're not talking about creating mini Exeters or Choates here with public subsidy. We're talking about incompetency to competency. Just offering a shot at a decent education. Not an elite one.
If the charter school fails, then it fails.
These things don’t exist in a vacuum, a million kids have had charter schools they’re attending fail.
This isn’t about creating a choice, it’s a jerk off session for privatization. And the kids, who’s parents get tricked into the scam, are the victims. That’s why the big crocodile tears for the current school closures is, in fact, the point.
But hey, maybe your property taxes will go down and it’ll all be worth it.
I lived most of my adult live in an area with good public schools so charter was never an issue, and I now live in an area with some great and some 'just ok' pubic schools that my kids don't attend. It's not my battle anymore, and I don't mind paying property taxes to help public education.
But in many parts of the country, what would qualify as a shit-tier public HS (say, Foss or Rainier Beach) would be viewed as a great alternative to the prevailing shit-hole options. I can't for the life of me understand why you would not want there to be an option ... an "out" ... for people who can't afford full-pay private tuition. I view it as the functional equivalent of creating more Catholic parochial schools. People often confuse those as being elite; most are not. They are less expensive than independent college prep schools, they admit a wider range of kids and the church subsidizes the cost. It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public. Charter schools seem like they operate at that level in the market.
If they are all failures, please cite me the study. I'm not pretending to be an expert on how they have played out. But the push for them continues, and there's a good reason why ... no viable public school option.
I agree with all of that with the exception of, "It's usually better than shit-tier public, and often inferior to top quality public." Any Catholic grade school education is better than a "shit-tier" public school option and almost always better than even your well-funded public options.
I should have said "always" better than shit-tier public, but stick to "often" better than top-quality public. I'm not talking independent prep schools masquerading as Catholic schools, like Villa Academy or Holy Names or Seattle Prep, or even Eastside Catholic.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kid's educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
Truth. In The Throbber's home village, the Catholic school was m'eh. Good but not OMG success for life. The brains went to the rich white kid public school.
Better teachers generally flowed from the Catholic schools to the public schools to the public schools since the bennies were better and the pay considerably higher.
That was a gazillion years ago so somewhat more balanced now. But rich white kid public schools will always have more resources and numbers to offer higher end offerings than the Catlicks. It's why the leftists are killing the AP/System racist programs in Boston and will start down the same path elsewhere. Easier to perpetuate the whitey evil narrative that way.
States like Utah and Iowa spend far less per pupil than do states like New York and Illinois but for some weird reason grades and test scores are higher in Utah. If you've never read the history of the Kansas City school district that was taken over by a Federal Judge where he had the authority to levy taxes and increase the spending for that school district you should do so. Lack of spending isn't the problem.
Any conversation trying to get at what "it" is that needs to be done should, in fairness, weed out the demographic factor, at least as it relates to affluence. For example, it should surprise nobody that Mercer Island High School has high test scores and an amazing placement record. 85% of the parents are Type A high achievers and highly educated people.
Utah and Iowa may have those kinds of schools, but I'm guessing they just do "it" better.
More intact two parent household. Fewer single mothers. And of course you can't say it but they also don't have quite as many kids that are negatively impacted by a toxic urban "culture." If you do well in school you aren't seen as "acting white." You're acting like a good student. And if you do poorly you aren't seen as cool and keeping it real.
Olympia had public schools and St. Mike's Catholic School. Charles Wright in Tacoma was the ritzy private school where the Schmidt kids of Oly Beer fame went among others. Thankfully my folks were not Catholic and my Dad wouldn't be caught dead sending his kids to a snooty private school. I enjoyed public schools but I graduated in 1974 so they were still pretty damn good.
Comments
Btw, this is exactly what happened to Michelle Obama except being admitted to an Ivy, especially if you have the correct skin tone, means you're never going to flunk out.
UW LS has always punched above its rankings weight in terms of how hard it is to get in. The numbers were comparable to much higher ranked schools like Duke or Georgetown. During my years, just before Initiative 200 passed in WA, the LS reached really far down the order for diversity candidates. Presumably because any AA or NA or Hispanic kid with talent would often (not always) go to higher ranked schools like UCLA or Boalt or one of many back east. Two of them I'm thinking about now really, really struggled. It was 3 years of obvious hell. They have have a JD, but I am sure that the experience did them no favors, and neither are practicing attorneys.
There's another version of affirmative action to which I'm not opposed, but that's a different thread.
Yes, having a degree from Princeton, no matter where you graduated in the order or how awful it was for you, does just give you that credibility and deference from people. And they'll get you through. In this respect, the Ivy League has done a remarkable job of marketing. Everyone assumes they are the hardest and most academically intense places on earth to study, which is a bit of an exaggeration.
I direct your attention to Mrs. Obama's 1985 thesis at Princeton University. Its title (rather limited in scope, given the author and the campus) is "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community." To describe it as hard to read would be a mistake; the thesis cannot be "read" at all, in the strict sense of the verb. This is because it wasn't written in any known language.
Michelle knew that she had only gotten into Princeton due to her skin color and it fostered a deep seated resentment in her against whites that she still totes around to this day.
In fact, it will fuel me. Because life is a race and I'll grind it out and kick your ass over time. IDNGAF if you have an Ivy degree or you were born into abject poverty. Let's get it on and be the best we can be.
I do have a problem if over and over and over again, you want to restart the game because you missed kickoff. Or didn't understand that the scorekeeper just put 2 more touchdowns on your side of the scoreboard.
And the same holds true for homeless people or drug addicts or whoever, regardless of color. Get up to where you can go mano a mano and then quit whining if you can't keep up.
That said, this knee-jerk reaction of "all my failures are because of institutionalized racism" is too simple and unacceptably ubiquitous. I don't believe it. My daughter's freshman year roommate from Boston attended a well-known Mass. boarding school, and she did very well at the very selective college they attended together. If Michelle couldn't handle Princeton, even in the 1980s, it's because she wasn't prepared to be there. Telling black kids that all their short-comings are because white people hate them is a huge disservice to those kids. It's not like "You don't belong here and never will." It's "You don't belong here because you didn't do the things that kids do to be prepared to be here."
One of my kids is Princeton level. Another could have been with slight behavior/attitude changes and the other would have been a reach even with the effort. The Princeton-level kid has talent, but also worked hard basically all through secondary school and took the hardest route you can take. I can't tell you where the talent line and lifetime of training lines are. But there is something you get from spending years busting your ass at a high level that you can't get in some summer diversity bootcamp experience. It just doesn't happen that way.
But your run-of-the-mill Catholic parochial school is not going to compete favorably with Newport HS or Bellevue HS or Mercer Island HS, or the like. It was those comparisons that came to mind. Grade school may be a different story. That was so long ago I honestly don't really have a base of knowledge to even comment. I just remember the parochial schools in our area up North were not super impressive and didn't churn out the top kids once they went on to the feeder HS. It was just a community and a decent place to get your kids educated; it wasn't anything that special and appealed more to people who wanted that kind of community as opposed to people chasing an elite prep education for their kids. YMMV
Better teachers generally flowed from the Catholic schools to the public schools since the bennies were better and the pay considerably higher.
That was a gazillion years ago so somewhat more balanced now. But rich white kid public schools will always have more resources and numbers to offer higher end offerings than the Catlicks. It's why the leftists are killing the AP/System racist programs in Boston and will start down the same path elsewhere. Easier to perpetuate the whitey evil narrative that way.
Utah and Iowa may have those kinds of schools, but I'm guessing they just do "it" better.