The only good thing about Lake to HC

dnc

Is Kwat back to defensive coordinator.

Otherwise I don't understand handing it over to a guy who has two years experience as a coordinator and one of them (the most recent) was mediocre.

BleachedAnusDawg

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

GreenRiverGatorz

Disagree. Installing Lake is a no-brainer. It hopefully keeps the aspects of Petersen that made this program successful, and injects an energy that was holding it back.
And I don't care if Lake has yet to prove himself as a defensive play caller. He doesn't need to do that anymore. We know he can build a defense, he can recruit like an animal, and he's a top-notch motivator in a profession where that quality is almost half the battle these days. I don't think anyone else on the staff has the potential to be an elite head coach besides Lake, and going outside of the program for a new-hire would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.

TommySQC

This has been the plan for 2 plus years. Timing may be sooner but this is a no brainer. I really think Jimmy Lake will be fantastic as HC.

GrundleStiltzkin

dnc said:

Is Kwat back to defensive coordinator.

Otherwise I don't understand handing it over to a guy who has two years experience as a coordinator and one of them (the most recent) was mediocre.

Agree for most part. However, the defense improved over the course of the season, and was not the primary dark cloud of this shitstorm.

PurpleBaze

TommySQC said:

This has been the plan for 2 plus years. Timing may be sooner but this is a no brainer. I really think Jimmy Lake will be fantastic as HC.

I hope you're right.

ThomasFremont

GrundleStiltzkin said:

dnc said:

Is Kwat back to defensive coordinator.

Otherwise I don't understand handing it over to a guy who has two years experience as a coordinator and one of them (the most recent) was mediocre.

Agree for most part. However, the defense improved over the course of the season, and was not the primary dark cloud of this shitstorm.

Defense was much better by years end. Offense much worse.

Enough said on that.

dnc

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Disagree. Installing Lake is a no-brainer. It hopefully keeps the aspects of Petersen that made this program successful, and injects an energy that was holding it back.
And I don't care if Lake has yet to prove himself as a defensive play caller. He doesn't need to do that anymore. We know he can build a defense, he can recruit like an animal, and he's a top-notch motivator in a profession where that quality is almost half the battle these days. I don't think anyone else on the staff has the potential to be an elite head coach besides Lake, and going outside of the program for a new-hire would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.

"We know he can build a defense"

We do?

"he can recruit like an animal"

I love the guy but he's never been close on any 5 star DB's, not even Kelee Ringo who he had plenty of inside edge for.

"and he's a top-notch motivator"

I'll give you this.

I like Lake. He's a great asset to the program. People who insinuated we would be better off without him were absolutely FS.

HC is a whole different thing. Sure you can squint and see him as a great HC but the most important thing an HC does is hire assistants and so far Jimmy has hired .... Will Harris. Who has done as much of an impact on the program as you or I have.

There are a ton of ways this goes very, very badly.

GreenRiverGatorz

BleachedAnusDawg said:

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

Ohio State and Oklahoma are very recent test cases of how successful this "lame" approach is. If you think this program is better than it's 7-5 record and has the infrastructure currently in place to be a top ten team, and I think it does, then hiring internally is the move. Especially when you have a future head coach already in the assistant ranks, which is not the case for most programs. Add in the bonus of freeing up a lot more salary for assistant coaches ($3M for Lake is nothing), and it would be ridiculous for the AD to embark on an outside candidate search.

GrundleStiltzkin

dnc said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Disagree. Installing Lake is a no-brainer. It hopefully keeps the aspects of Petersen that made this program successful, and injects an energy that was holding it back.
And I don't care if Lake has yet to prove himself as a defensive play caller. He doesn't need to do that anymore. We know he can build a defense, he can recruit like an animal, and he's a top-notch motivator in a profession where that quality is almost half the battle these days. I don't think anyone else on the staff has the potential to be an elite head coach besides Lake, and going outside of the program for a new-hire would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.

"We know he can build a defense"

We do?

"he can recruit like an animal"

I love the guy but he's never been close on any 5 star DB's, not even Kelee Ringo who he had plenty of inside edge for.

"and he's a top-notch motivator"

I'll give you this.

I like Lake. He's a great asset to the program. People who insinuated we would be better off without him were absolutely FS.

HC is a whole different thing. Sure you can squint and see him as a great HC but the most important thing an HC does is hire assistants and so far Jimmy has hired .... Will Harris. Who has done as much of an impact on the program as you or I have.

There are a ton of ways this goes very, very badly.

Lotta doogs bringing up the Young Corching Talent at Ohio State & Oklahoma. History says they were huge aberrations, plus only been doing one and two seasons, respectively.

dnc

GreenRiverGatorz said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

Ohio State and Oklahoma are very recent test cases of how successful this "lame" approach is. If you think this program is better than it's 7-5 record and has the infrastructure currently in place to be a top ten team, and I think it does, then hiring internally is the move. Especially when you have a future head coach already in the assistant ranks, which is not the case for most programs. Add in the bonus of freeing up a lot more salary for assistant coaches ($3M for Lake is nothing), and it would be ridiculous for the AD to embark on an outside candidate search.

Oklahoma hired an absolute hot shot coordinator who excels at developing the most important position. tOSU hired a guy who had already been their HC for three games and whose offense dropped 40 on a ranked team in the process.

Day had 5 years experience as a coordinator.

Riley had 7 years experience as a coordinator.

Lake has two years and no one really knows how much control he really had over the defense in those two years.

This is not the same thing, at all.

FremontTroll

The head coach in waiting hire seems to work out significantly more often than any other type.

I don’t want to say trust the coaches but those inside the program know which coaches are really driving the success of the program.

UW has bent over backwards to keep Lake the last few years. I want to see why.

*the exception is when the head coach is fired mid season and the interim guy gets the job for winning a few games. That is lazy and bullshit.

GreenRiverGatorz

dnc said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Disagree. Installing Lake is a no-brainer. It hopefully keeps the aspects of Petersen that made this program successful, and injects an energy that was holding it back.
And I don't care if Lake has yet to prove himself as a defensive play caller. He doesn't need to do that anymore. We know he can build a defense, he can recruit like an animal, and he's a top-notch motivator in a profession where that quality is almost half the battle these days. I don't think anyone else on the staff has the potential to be an elite head coach besides Lake, and going outside of the program for a new-hire would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.

"We know he can build a defense"

We do?

"he can recruit like an animal"

I love the guy but he's never been close on any 5 star DB's, not even Kelee Ringo who he had plenty of inside edge for.

"and he's a top-notch motivator"

I'll give you this.

I like Lake. He's a great asset to the program. People who insinuated we would be better off without him were absolutely FS.

HC is a whole different thing. Sure you can squint and see him as a great HC but the most important thing an HC does is hire assistants and so far Jimmy has hired .... Will Harris. Who has done as much of an impact on the program as you or I have.

There are a ton of ways this goes very, very badly.

The 5-star metric is a weird cherry pick considering Lake has been far and away the best recruiter this program has seen since the 90s. Are you really disputing that he's not an ace recruiter with the track record to back it up, or do I actually need to go through the exercise of listing every recruiting win of his? The 2020 class has been a weird deviation from his norm, but it certainly doesn't diminish his body of work.
And yeah, I'm going to give him credit for building the defense, though Kwiatkowski certainly gets his own share of the praise. But the DBs have been the centerpiece of the defense since Lake arrived, and for the last three years he's been a lot more involved in the recruitment of players outside of just his position group. He knows what it takes to build a unit, now we'll see if he can manage that process for multiple units.
None of that is to say that I think he'll be a success. I'm optimistic that he will be, and I think he gives us the best shot of contending for meaningful titles in the future. But at the end of the day most head coaches fail, and the stats are not in his favor.

dnc

FremontTroll said:

The head coach in waiting hire seems to work out significantly more often than any other type.

I don’t want to say trust the coaches but those inside the program know which coaches are really driving the success of the program.

UW has bent over backwards to keep Lake the last few years. I want to see why.

*the exception is when the head coach is fired mid season and the interim guy gets the job for winning a few games. That is lazy and bullshit.

I'll be absolutely thrilled if this works out.

It's not the way I would have wanted them to do it.

Lake gets three years like anybody else but I'm very nervous.

dnc

GreenRiverGatorz said:

dnc said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Disagree. Installing Lake is a no-brainer. It hopefully keeps the aspects of Petersen that made this program successful, and injects an energy that was holding it back.
And I don't care if Lake has yet to prove himself as a defensive play caller. He doesn't need to do that anymore. We know he can build a defense, he can recruit like an animal, and he's a top-notch motivator in a profession where that quality is almost half the battle these days. I don't think anyone else on the staff has the potential to be an elite head coach besides Lake, and going outside of the program for a new-hire would be throwing out the baby with the bath water.

"We know he can build a defense"

We do?

"he can recruit like an animal"

I love the guy but he's never been close on any 5 star DB's, not even Kelee Ringo who he had plenty of inside edge for.

"and he's a top-notch motivator"

I'll give you this.

I like Lake. He's a great asset to the program. People who insinuated we would be better off without him were absolutely FS.

HC is a whole different thing. Sure you can squint and see him as a great HC but the most important thing an HC does is hire assistants and so far Jimmy has hired .... Will Harris. Who has done as much of an impact on the program as you or I have.

There are a ton of ways this goes very, very badly.

The 5-star metric is a weird cherry pick considering Lake has been far and away the best recruiter this program has seen since the 90s. Are you really disputing that he's not an ace recruiter with the track record to back it up, or do I actually need to go through the exercise of listing every recruiting win of his? The 2020 class has been a weird deviation from his norm, but it certainly doesn't diminish his body of work.
And yeah, I'm going to give him credit for building the defense, though Kwiatkowski certainly gets his own share of the praise. But the DBs have been the centerpiece of the defense since Lake arrived, and for the last three years he's been a lot more involved in the recruitment of players outside of just his position group. He knows what it takes to build a unit, now we'll see if he can manage that process for multiple units.
None of that is to say that I think he'll be a success. I'm optimistic that he will be, and I think he gives us the best shot of contending for meaningful titles in the future. But at the end of the day most head coaches fail, and the stats are not in his favor.

I'm not saying Lake's a bad recruiter. I think his DB recruiting is slightly overrated and his development is underrated. His biggest successes have been with 3 stars (Jones, King, Rapp, Bryant) and Baker (who I'm not sure how much Lake had to do with his recruitment). Murphy and McDuffie are his biggest recruiting coups, and they were big time. I wouldn't call him an animal as a recruiter though. He doesn't seem to want to mix it up with the big boys for kids with the obvious exception of Notre Dame.

And it's Kwats defense. He's the architect. I just completely disagree with the idea Lake built the defense.

BleachedAnusDawg

GreenRiverGatorz said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

Ohio State and Oklahoma are very recent test cases of how successful this "lame" approach is. If you think this program is better than it's 7-5 record and has the infrastructure currently in place to be a top ten team, and I think it does, then hiring internally is the move. Especially when you have a future head coach already in the assistant ranks, which is not the case for most programs. Add in the bonus of freeing up a lot more salary for assistant coaches ($3M for Lake is nothing), and it would be ridiculous for the AD to embark on an outside candidate search.

Odds are that those schools are outliers versus being some new trend. Also, Ohio State got a 3-game test run with Day at HC because they basically forced Urban out. That wasn't some master stroke of genius.

UWhuskytskeet

Let's not crown Day quite yet, Helfrichmade the Natty early on too.

dnc

@DuckHHunterisafag said:

Where was the program going with Peterson at the helm? He wasn't going to win many more championships with an improving Pac12. A change needed to be made and Lake is likely the best option right now. He gets his 2-3 years and if he avoids losing seasons then possibly more. Were you happy with the direction Peterson was going?

The fuck does this have to do with anything? Are you saying they forced Pete out?

Regardless, yes, I'd rather have Pete as HC than Lake. Obviously Pete doesn't want to do it anymore so c'est la vie. I'd rather do a real coaching search than hand it to over to the best guy on the staff. Our history of settling for the most convenient hire shows it almost never works except perhaps for when they hired Jenn. Though that one is now in doubt too.

GreenRiverGatorz

dnc said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

Ohio State and Oklahoma are very recent test cases of how successful this "lame" approach is. If you think this program is better than it's 7-5 record and has the infrastructure currently in place to be a top ten team, and I think it does, then hiring internally is the move. Especially when you have a future head coach already in the assistant ranks, which is not the case for most programs. Add in the bonus of freeing up a lot more salary for assistant coaches ($3M for Lake is nothing), and it would be ridiculous for the AD to embark on an outside candidate search.

Oklahoma hired an absolute hot shot coordinator who excels at developing the most important position. tOSU hired a guy who had already been their HC for three games and whose offense dropped 40 on a ranked team in the process.

Day had 5 years experience as a coordinator.

Riley had 7 years experience as a coordinator.

Lake has two years and no one really knows how much control he really had over the defense in those two years.

This is not the same thing, at all.

I find it weird that you're putting so much emphasis on Day's previous OC experience at places like Temple and Boston College, or Riley's OC experience at ECU, as if that made them more ready for the head coaching job than Lake's DB and DC experience. Both Day and Riley had only been at OSU and Oklahoma for two years before getting the head coaching jobs. If anything, Lake's sustained tenure here and much longer tutelage under Petersen would give him an advantage over guys like Day and Riley, who only had brief stints under Urban and Stoops.
It's a crapshoot either way, but I don't buy the implication that Day or Riley were more "ready" for the job at all.

FremontTroll

I get the idea that the best candidate likely doesn’t just happen to already be at UW.

But in the case of a mostly successful program there are strong considerations to maintaining the culture and continuity.

UW has the talent on the roster. UW doesn’t need an overhaul just a recharge. Lake can keep the best parts of CP’s program while also putting his own stamp on the program.

I think it’s worth rolling the dice on Lake instead of blowing it up.

dnc

GreenRiverGatorz said:

dnc said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

Yeah, for being a "football school" it is pretty lame that the AD was content to settle for the coach-in-waiting approach with a guy who has never been HC anywhere. Urban Meyer would never come here, but it would've at least shown the fans that the AD is trying hard if they were able to get a meeting or some lines of communication with Team Urban.

Ohio State and Oklahoma are very recent test cases of how successful this "lame" approach is. If you think this program is better than it's 7-5 record and has the infrastructure currently in place to be a top ten team, and I think it does, then hiring internally is the move. Especially when you have a future head coach already in the assistant ranks, which is not the case for most programs. Add in the bonus of freeing up a lot more salary for assistant coaches ($3M for Lake is nothing), and it would be ridiculous for the AD to embark on an outside candidate search.

Oklahoma hired an absolute hot shot coordinator who excels at developing the most important position. tOSU hired a guy who had already been their HC for three games and whose offense dropped 40 on a ranked team in the process.

Day had 5 years experience as a coordinator.

Riley had 7 years experience as a coordinator.

Lake has two years and no one really knows how much control he really had over the defense in those two years.

This is not the same thing, at all.

I find it weird that you're putting so much emphasis on Day's previous OC experience at places like Temple and Boston College, or Riley's OC experience at ECU, as if that made them more ready for the head coaching job than Lake's DB and DC experience. Both Day and Riley had only been at OSU and Oklahoma for two years before getting the head coaching jobs. If anything, Lake's sustained tenure here and much longer tutelage under Petersen would give him an advantage over guys like Day and Riley, who only had brief stints under Urban and Stoops.
It's a crapshoot either way, but I don't buy the implication that Day or Riley were more "ready" for the job at all.

Cool man, agree to disagree.

I certainly hope you end up being right here.