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Theoretical socialism
Comments
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I thought you were claiming that their dependence on oil is what caused their problems?greenblood said:
If you read it to the end you’d see I said that.SFGbob said:
What caused the Venezuelan government to increase it's borrowing and spending? Just because you make $15,000 a month doesn't require that you go out and spend $20,000 a month putting the extra $5K on a credit card.greenblood said:
You used to make $15,000/month and had $10,000/month in essential expenses. Now you make $5,000/month but have $12,000/month in essential expenses. That's what's going on in Venezuela. Yes they should have diversified their economy. Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar did years ago, before the price of oil collapsed. It's too late for Venezuela to diversify. Diversifying takes capital, and Venezuela doesn't have any, and because of US sanctions, their ability to get financing is damn near impossible. The only financing they can get is from Russia and China with horrible terms, and who get paid back in oil. Problem being, this oil production eats up any domestic product they receive because instead of selling it, it's being used to pay interest.SFGbob said:
Yes they are diversified now, they weren’t always so. There was nothing stopping Venezuela from diversifying their economy.greenblood said:
you might want to research Bahrain's and Qatar's oil production. It isn't much.SFGbob said:
So then Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar should all be economic basket cases like Venezuela.2001400ex said:
Someone gets it.greenblood said:Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Kuwait is also much more diversified than you think.
The fact that Venezuela got so much of their income from oil doesn’t explain why they are a shithole today.
The only way Venezuela can be fixed is with a regime change, and the forgiveness of some past debt. Their oil industry will then become foreign owned, and that would force them to diversify, because their cash cow oil industry wouldn't belong to them anymore. The one problem with this is that many countries still wouldn't be go with this, because Venezuela has had prior history of nationalizing and seizing foreign companies. It would have to be tightly controlled.
But yes, Socialism sucks. Socialism is what prevented Venezuela from cutting spending when times got tough. I think they'd still be screwed, but I think the fall would have been much much slower.
Socialism is what caused the explosion of borrowing and spending to begin with.
Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource. -
Yes it is. 95% of their income got cut by 75%. But they also couldn’t stop giving entitlements. Both combined and you have hyperinflation and a complete meltdown. A perfect stormSFGbob said:
I thought you were claiming that their dependence on oil is what caused their problems?greenblood said:
If you read it to the end you’d see I said that.SFGbob said:
What caused the Venezuelan government to increase it's borrowing and spending? Just because you make $15,000 a month doesn't require that you go out and spend $20,000 a month putting the extra $5K on a credit card.greenblood said:
You used to make $15,000/month and had $10,000/month in essential expenses. Now you make $5,000/month but have $12,000/month in essential expenses. That's what's going on in Venezuela. Yes they should have diversified their economy. Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar did years ago, before the price of oil collapsed. It's too late for Venezuela to diversify. Diversifying takes capital, and Venezuela doesn't have any, and because of US sanctions, their ability to get financing is damn near impossible. The only financing they can get is from Russia and China with horrible terms, and who get paid back in oil. Problem being, this oil production eats up any domestic product they receive because instead of selling it, it's being used to pay interest.SFGbob said:
Yes they are diversified now, they weren’t always so. There was nothing stopping Venezuela from diversifying their economy.greenblood said:
you might want to research Bahrain's and Qatar's oil production. It isn't much.SFGbob said:
So then Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar should all be economic basket cases like Venezuela.2001400ex said:
Someone gets it.greenblood said:Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Kuwait is also much more diversified than you think.
The fact that Venezuela got so much of their income from oil doesn’t explain why they are a shithole today.
The only way Venezuela can be fixed is with a regime change, and the forgiveness of some past debt. Their oil industry will then become foreign owned, and that would force them to diversify, because their cash cow oil industry wouldn't belong to them anymore. The one problem with this is that many countries still wouldn't be go with this, because Venezuela has had prior history of nationalizing and seizing foreign companies. It would have to be tightly controlled.
But yes, Socialism sucks. Socialism is what prevented Venezuela from cutting spending when times got tough. I think they'd still be screwed, but I think the fall would have been much much slower.
Socialism is what caused the explosion of borrowing and spending to begin with.
Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Without the oil price drop they could have gone another 20-30 years on their continued spending. -
Damn those market conditions Fucking up all the socialist paradises!!greenblood said:
Yes it is. 95% of their income got cut by 75%. But they also couldn’t stop giving entitlements. Both combined and you have hyperinflation and a complete meltdown. A perfect stormSFGbob said:
I thought you were claiming that their dependence on oil is what caused their problems?greenblood said:
If you read it to the end you’d see I said that.SFGbob said:
What caused the Venezuelan government to increase it's borrowing and spending? Just because you make $15,000 a month doesn't require that you go out and spend $20,000 a month putting the extra $5K on a credit card.greenblood said:
You used to make $15,000/month and had $10,000/month in essential expenses. Now you make $5,000/month but have $12,000/month in essential expenses. That's what's going on in Venezuela. Yes they should have diversified their economy. Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar did years ago, before the price of oil collapsed. It's too late for Venezuela to diversify. Diversifying takes capital, and Venezuela doesn't have any, and because of US sanctions, their ability to get financing is damn near impossible. The only financing they can get is from Russia and China with horrible terms, and who get paid back in oil. Problem being, this oil production eats up any domestic product they receive because instead of selling it, it's being used to pay interest.SFGbob said:
Yes they are diversified now, they weren’t always so. There was nothing stopping Venezuela from diversifying their economy.greenblood said:
you might want to research Bahrain's and Qatar's oil production. It isn't much.SFGbob said:
So then Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar should all be economic basket cases like Venezuela.2001400ex said:
Someone gets it.greenblood said:Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Kuwait is also much more diversified than you think.
The fact that Venezuela got so much of their income from oil doesn’t explain why they are a shithole today.
The only way Venezuela can be fixed is with a regime change, and the forgiveness of some past debt. Their oil industry will then become foreign owned, and that would force them to diversify, because their cash cow oil industry wouldn't belong to them anymore. The one problem with this is that many countries still wouldn't be go with this, because Venezuela has had prior history of nationalizing and seizing foreign companies. It would have to be tightly controlled.
But yes, Socialism sucks. Socialism is what prevented Venezuela from cutting spending when times got tough. I think they'd still be screwed, but I think the fall would have been much much slower.
Socialism is what caused the explosion of borrowing and spending to begin with.
Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Without the oil price drop they could have gone another 20-30 years on their continued spending. -
If you got rid of the socialism and only had a cut in the price of oil would they be the basket case they are today?greenblood said:
Yes it is. 95% of their income got cut by 75%. But they also couldn’t stop giving entitlements. Both combined and you have hyperinflation and a complete meltdown. A perfect stormSFGbob said:
I thought you were claiming that their dependence on oil is what caused their problems?greenblood said:
If you read it to the end you’d see I said that.SFGbob said:
What caused the Venezuelan government to increase it's borrowing and spending? Just because you make $15,000 a month doesn't require that you go out and spend $20,000 a month putting the extra $5K on a credit card.greenblood said:
You used to make $15,000/month and had $10,000/month in essential expenses. Now you make $5,000/month but have $12,000/month in essential expenses. That's what's going on in Venezuela. Yes they should have diversified their economy. Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar did years ago, before the price of oil collapsed. It's too late for Venezuela to diversify. Diversifying takes capital, and Venezuela doesn't have any, and because of US sanctions, their ability to get financing is damn near impossible. The only financing they can get is from Russia and China with horrible terms, and who get paid back in oil. Problem being, this oil production eats up any domestic product they receive because instead of selling it, it's being used to pay interest.SFGbob said:
Yes they are diversified now, they weren’t always so. There was nothing stopping Venezuela from diversifying their economy.greenblood said:
you might want to research Bahrain's and Qatar's oil production. It isn't much.SFGbob said:
So then Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar should all be economic basket cases like Venezuela.2001400ex said:
Someone gets it.greenblood said:Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Kuwait is also much more diversified than you think.
The fact that Venezuela got so much of their income from oil doesn’t explain why they are a shithole today.
The only way Venezuela can be fixed is with a regime change, and the forgiveness of some past debt. Their oil industry will then become foreign owned, and that would force them to diversify, because their cash cow oil industry wouldn't belong to them anymore. The one problem with this is that many countries still wouldn't be go with this, because Venezuela has had prior history of nationalizing and seizing foreign companies. It would have to be tightly controlled.
But yes, Socialism sucks. Socialism is what prevented Venezuela from cutting spending when times got tough. I think they'd still be screwed, but I think the fall would have been much much slower.
Socialism is what caused the explosion of borrowing and spending to begin with.
Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Without the oil price drop they could have gone another 20-30 years on their continued spending. -
Young people are generally more progressive and skew more conservative as they age. Probably has to do with having to pay more in taxes, accumulating more wealth, and gaining experience watching government fail as they age.allpurpleallgold said:More than half of millennials have a positive view of socialism. You’ve already lost.
I've been hearing about the demographic tidal wave shift to progressiveness for more than 20 yrs. -
Venezuela used to be the breadbasket of South America and a net exporter of food and other goods. Mysteriously, after the implementation of socialismo, their industries have shrunk and they've become net importers of basically everything except for one natural resource.SFGbob said:
Yes they are diversified now, they weren’t always so. There was nothing stopping Venezuela from diversifying their economy.greenblood said:
you might want to research Bahrain's and Qatar's oil production. It isn't much.SFGbob said:
So then Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar should all be economic basket cases like Venezuela.2001400ex said:
Someone gets it.greenblood said:Venezuela is what you get when 95% of your country's economy is reliant on a single resource.
Kuwait is also much more diversified than you think.
The fact that Venezuela got so much of their income from oil doesn’t explain why they are a shithole today.
Totally unrelated according to Hondo. -
Yeah it sucks to be oil rich. Many countries collapse due to oil. Quite common really
One day you got oil the next you can't buy toilet paper
Who comes up with these stupid fucking arguments? -
Really? Aging boomers voted for trump because they can’t compete in today’s world and demand government intervention (tariffs nativism, and economic protectionism). The voting preference of today’s old fucks is wealth transfer and activist government intervention. They have no preference at all for “conservatism”UW_Doog_Bot said:
Young people are generally more progressive and skew more conservative as they age. Probably has to do with having to pay more in taxes, accumulating more wealth, and gaining experience watching government fail as they age.allpurpleallgold said:More than half of millennials have a positive view of socialism. You’ve already lost.
I've been hearing about the demographic tidal wave shift to progressiveness for more than 20 yrs.
Sounds like you “hearing” from the same people telling you that impeachment is coming any day now. -
Soccer will be the most popular sport
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I've been "hearing" from the boareds "liberals" how impeachment is coming any day now. That's still the case last I checked the Tug. What's changed?CirrhosisDawg said:
Really? Aging boomers voted for trump because they can’t compete in today’s world and demand government intervention (tariffs nativism, and economic protectionism). The voting preference of today’s old fucks is wealth transfer and activist government intervention. They have no preference at all for “conservatism”UW_Doog_Bot said:
Young people are generally more progressive and skew more conservative as they age. Probably has to do with having to pay more in taxes, accumulating more wealth, and gaining experience watching government fail as they age.allpurpleallgold said:More than half of millennials have a positive view of socialism. You’ve already lost.
I've been hearing about the demographic tidal wave shift to progressiveness for more than 20 yrs.
Sounds like you “hearing” from the same people telling you that impeachment is coming any day now.
It's a fair point about the changing faces of American politics, both parties have swerved towards populist "economics". It's still the same old Dixiecrats voting for nativism & protectionism they're just boomer republicans now.
