The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Does that limitation make their gains lesser in your eyes?
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Most of the WWII technology actually was developed in WWI. Radar, V-2 rockets and A-bombs notwithstanding.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Most of the WWII technology actually was developed in WWI. Radar, V-2 rockets and A-bombs notwithstanding.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Most of the WWII technology actually was developed in WWI. Radar, V-2 rockets and A-bombs notwithstanding.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Does that limitation make their gains lesser in your eyes?
It certainly lessened their ability to effectively make war which is what we are ultimately comparing- i.e., Germany's military might relative to their enemies in WWI vs WWII. Fuel wasn't as big of a factor in WWI and therefore not having an abundance of it didn't affect Imperial Germany's war making ability at the time.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Most of the WWII technology actually was developed in WWI. Radar, V-2 rockets and A-bombs notwithstanding.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Does that limitation make their gains lesser in your eyes?
It certainly lessened their ability to effectively make war which is what we are ultimately comparing- i.e., Germany's military might relative to their enemies in WWI vs WWII. Fuel wasn't as big of a factor in WWI and therefore not having an abundance of it didn't affect Imperial Germany's war making ability at the time.
Wait what are we comparing: SOS, W-L record, coaching, facilities, sizzle?
The way I see it, WW1 was Germany barely beating up (but had the upper hand) a weak Euro division, had Euro allies, not having to worry about Russia, and then giving up once we entered with more troops. They failed to innovate and were locked in a stalemate. They lacked oil in WW2, but resources became an issue in WW1 too.
WW2 they blitzed the entire Euro league, only had 1 shitty Euro ally that basically gave up (sad to see how far Italy has fallen), took North Africa, backstabbed the Soviets and pushed them to the outskirts of Moscow, and fought a SERIOUS Allied military led by us. We had to push all the way to Berlin before they quit in round 2.
Round 2 lasted longer, was a true global conflict rather than a regional slaughter, and the end result reshaped the world way more than the end of round 1. The Nazis were a much bigger threat. I don’t think this is even that close tbh.
The WWII Krauts relied on horses and carts. Same as they did in WWI
The Germans had an average of over a million horses used for troop movement. The US used less than 100,000, a good chunk of which were mules in the Pacific Theater.
For all that tech @ThomasFremont the WW2 Germans had no fucking gas so it didn't matter.
Does that limitation make their gains lesser in your eyes?
It certainly lessened their ability to effectively make war which is what we are ultimately comparing- i.e., Germany's military might relative to their enemies in WWI vs WWII. Fuel wasn't as big of a factor in WWI and therefore not having an abundance of it didn't affect Imperial Germany's war making ability at the time.
Wait what are we comparing: SOS, W-L record, coaching, facilities, sizzle?
The way I see it, WW1 was Germany barely beating up (but had the upper hand) a weak Euro division, had Euro allies, not having to worry about Russia, and then giving up once we entered with more troops. They failed to innovate and were locked in a stalemate. They lacked oil in WW2, but resources became an issue in WW1 too.
WW2 they blitzed the entire Euro league, only had 1 shitty Euro ally that basically gave up (sad to see how far Italy has fallen), took North Africa, backstabbed the Soviets and pushed them to the outskirts of Moscow, and fought a SERIOUS Allied military led by us. We had to push all the way to Berlin before they quit in round 2.
Round 2 lasted longer, was a true global conflict rather than a regional slaughter, and the end result reshaped the world way more than the end of round 1. The Nazis were a much bigger threat. I don’t think this is even that close tbh.
Part of argument here is based on Imperial Germany having had to play a much harder schedule and being a legit threat to win it all at the very end. Again, France and Britain (from 1915 onwards) were very, very formidable opponents. And it was the massive casualties that those countries suffered on the Western Front in WWI that made them reluctant to fight in 1938- 40. People forget that in August 1914 France went on the offensive out of the gates trying to recapture Alsace - Lorraine. The very much had a going on the offensive mindset and weren't the surrender monkeys that everyone thinks of them based on WWII. Czarist Russia wasn't as strong of an opponent as Soviet Russia, but they were a formidable opponent none-the-less. WWI Germany would have KO'd Csarist Russia rather easily in a one-on-one, Eastern Front fight, where as WWII Germany couldn't get it done. Granted they had a few divisions kept in the West, the Balkans and Africa, but the USSR got about 90% of available German military strength thrown at them in 1941- 42.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
The logistics and technology of the Pacific War have always fascinated the hell out of me. Crazy to imagine that there's been a period in history where another nation has managed to put to sea a large fleet of air craft carriers. We've had a monopoly pretty much in naval air power since 1945.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
The logistics and technology of the Pacific War have always fascinated the hell out of me. Crazy to imagine that there's been a period in history where another nation has managed to put to sea a large fleet of air craft carriers. We've had a monopoly pretty much in naval air power since 1945.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
The logistics and technology of the Pacific War have always fascinated the hell out of me. Crazy to imagine that there's been a period in history where another nation has managed to put to sea a large fleet of air craft carriers. We've had a monopoly pretty much in naval air power since 1945.
we?
Yes, I'm an American citizen and my tax dollars pay for it. Therefor, We.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
The logistics and technology of the Pacific War have always fascinated the hell out of me. Crazy to imagine that there's been a period in history where another nation has managed to put to sea a large fleet of air craft carriers. We've had a monopoly pretty much in naval air power since 1945.
we?
Yes, I'm an American citizen and my tax dollars pay for it. Therefor, We.
Whatever bro. I didn't even want to be in your dumb club
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
Japs were cruel evil little fucks. Most combat was no quarter given.
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
I'd love to hear you expound on this. I grew up hating both so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Godwin's law exists for a reason. CW is that the Nazis were the worst ever. I'd love to hear the full case against the reds (non @Swaye division).
it's funny growing up in schools here you hear about normandy being the beginning of the end for germany, when in reality they were all but dead and most of the US troops were fighting eastern european conscripts. notable exception being the dietrich's SS's putrefied corpse during the battle of the bulge when hitler insanely diverted them from the eastern front
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.
I'd love to hear you expound on this. I grew up hating both so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Godwin's law exists for a reason. CW is that the Nazis were the worst ever. I'd love to hear the full case against the reds (non @Swaye division).
This will be fodder for next weeks higher level history discussion pole.
Comments
Tanks, flamethrowers, motorized vehicles, airplanes, large-scale artillery, depth charges.
But clearly the weapons of WWII were of WWI origin.
There are long stretches in history where the weapons used were little changed from the decades or centuries previous. That was not the case in WW2.
The way I see it, WW1 was Germany barely beating up (but had the upper hand) a weak Euro division, had Euro allies, not having to worry about Russia, and then giving up once we entered with more troops. They failed to innovate and were locked in a stalemate. They lacked oil in WW2, but resources became an issue in WW1 too.
WW2 they blitzed the entire Euro league, only had 1 shitty Euro ally that basically gave up (sad to see how far Italy has fallen), took North Africa, backstabbed the Soviets and pushed them to the outskirts of Moscow, and fought a SERIOUS Allied military led by us. We had to push all the way to Berlin before they quit in round 2.
Round 2 lasted longer, was a true global conflict rather than a regional slaughter, and the end result reshaped the world way more than the end of round 1. The Nazis were a much bigger threat. I don’t think this is even that close tbh.
the battles of kursk, stalingrad, moscow, kiev, smolensk etc were each more bloody and impactful than the entire western front combined. that's crazy.
i always found the pacific theater more interesting because of this. plus soviets were significantly more evil than the nazis imo. pacific theater was pure black vs white.