Mightier military vis-a-vis the contemporary competition: Imperial Germany or Nazi Germany?
https://dchhaddendum.libsyn.com/imperial-germany-vs-nazi-germany
Mightier military vis-a-vis the contemporary competition: Imperial Germany or Nazi Germany? 15 votes
3 votes
12 votes
Comments
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WW1 Imperial GermanyCarlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight. -
WW2 Nazi GermanyThe Blitz or 46 defense that Hitler came up with changed modern warfare
WW1 was a brutal slog with modern killing weapons and Civil War era strategy -
WW1 Imperial Germany
Nazi Germany is Oregon- i.e., revolutionary Offense - but they got worn down and lost in the second half badly. WWI Germany was built for 4 quarters of football.RaceBannon said:The Blitz or 46 defense that Hitler came up with changed modern warfare
WW1 was a brutal slog with modern killing weapons and Civil War era strategy -
Conversely, that was a shit tier WWI Russia with a fucking pansy ass czar at the helm (thanks @Rasputin!) rather than a military mind. Also a Russia that was *this* close to Implosion.gif.YellowSnow said:Carlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight.
Hitler's eastern front SOS was much higher.
Still a chinteresting debate. -
WW2 Nazi Germany
They still quit and sold out their country!YellowSnow said:
Nazi Germany is Oregon- i.e., revolutionary Offense - but they got worn down and lost in the second half badly. WWI Germany was built for 4 quarters of football.RaceBannon said:The Blitz or 46 defense that Hitler came up with changed modern warfare
WW1 was a brutal slog with modern killing weapons and Civil War era strategy -
WW2 Nazi GermanyHitler had to build his army while under crippling NCAA sanctions. Wasn't even supposed to have an army
As Pumpy and Lambo can tell you, sanctions can kill a program for years -
WW2 Nazi Germany
You mean the Nazi's had to play a RANKED Russia?dnc said:
Conversely, that was a shit tier WWI Russia with a fucking pansy ass czar at the helm (thanks @Rasputin!) rather than a military mind. Also a Russia that was *this* close to Implosion.gif.YellowSnow said:Carlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight.
Hitler's eastern front SOS was much higher.
Still a chinteresting debate. -
WW1 Imperial Germany
Spikes on helmets. WW1 Krauts win rather easily.
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WW1 Imperial Germany
Fake news by right wing nut jobs. They were whipped and saved their country from further pain and suffering by throwing in the towel.RaceBannon said:
They still quit and sold out their country!YellowSnow said:
Nazi Germany is Oregon- i.e., revolutionary Offense - but they got worn down and lost in the second half badly. WWI Germany was built for 4 quarters of football.RaceBannon said:The Blitz or 46 defense that Hitler came up with changed modern warfare
WW1 was a brutal slog with modern killing weapons and Civil War era strategy -
WW2 Germany and it's not close.
Who cares if the generals had more say in WW1? Say in what, sending thousands to run to their deaths against trench fortified machine guns?
Nazi German overextended by a fucking lot. They couldnt be satisfied with annexing France and Poland, they just had to spread themselves too thin and attack Russia. If they had fortified, given themselves time to get their new recruits up to speed, and not helped a fucking stupid Italy blunder along in Greece, America would have had a real problem and might not have been able to beat them.
It was probably a matter of time before Russia attacked the eastern flank, but a Russian offensive would have been a joke. Wasting away half of your troops in an offensive in Russia, during the winter, was an all-time dumb fuckup.
Same shit happened to Napolean. Power hungry despots, for some reason, arent happy with conquering the nice parts of Europe. They are compelled to invade Russia for god knows why, lose a shitload of experienced troops, and allow the English to get their shit together. -
WW1 Imperial Germany
This is highly debatable. Remember WWI Germany never got anywhere near Moscow and the Russians held them off for nearly 4 years. If the Bolsheviks don't get into Power, Russia would have kept on fighting. And the Western Front SOS was much, much higher in WWI.dnc said:
Conversely, that was a shit tier WWI Russia with a fucking pansy ass czar at the helm (thanks @Rasputin!) rather than a military mind. Also a Russia that was *this* close to Implosion.gif.YellowSnow said:Carlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight.
Hitler's eastern front SOS was much higher.
Still a chinteresting debate. -
WW2 Nazi GermanyWow there's a lot of stretching to make this into a football analogy
Cooler uniforms in ww2 and they probably boned a lot of hot french chicks. -
Gnu hear?Pitchfork51 said:Wow there's a lot of stretching to make this into a football analogy
Cooler uniforms in ww2 and they probably boned a lot of hot french chicks. -
I don't deal in hypotheticalsYellowSnow said:
This is highly debatable. Remember WWI Germany never got anywhere near Moscow and the Russians held them off for nearly 4 years. If the Bolsheviks don't get into Power, Russia would have kept on fighting. And the Western Front SOS was much, much higher in WWI.dnc said:
Conversely, that was a shit tier WWI Russia with a fucking pansy ass czar at the helm (thanks @Rasputin!) rather than a military mind. Also a Russia that was *this* close to Implosion.gif.YellowSnow said:Carlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight.
Hitler's eastern front SOS was much higher.
Still a chinteresting debate. -
WW1 Imperial Germany
Yes, except this isn't really what happened in WWI. After Germany failed to knock out France and Britain at the First Battle of Marne in 1914, they basically went on the strategic defensive on the Western Front until Spring 1918. Most of the stupid Civil War era infantry charges against machine guns and barbed wire were British and French Generals continually launching offensives to push the Germans out of France and Belgium. Once Germany knew they were a war of attrition in WWI their strategy was sound as fuck, which can't be said of WWII. Ludendorff and Hindenburg were far better strategists than Hitler.PostGameOrangeSlices said:WW2 Germany and it's not close.
Who cares if the generals had more say in WW1? Say in what, sending thousands to run to their deaths against trench fortified machine guns?
Nazi German overextended by a fucking lot. They couldnt be satisfied with annexing France and Poland, they just had to spread themselves too thin and attack Russia. If they had fortified, given themselves time to get their new recruits up to speed, and not helped a fucking stupid Italy blunder along in Greece, America would have had a real problem and might not have been able to beat them.
It was probably a matter of time before Russia attacked the eastern flank, but a Russian offensive would have been a joke. Wasting away half of your troops in an offensive in Russia, during the winter, was an all-time dumb fuckup.
Same shit happened to Napolean. Power hungry despots, for some reason, arent happy with conquering the nice parts of Europe. They are compelled to invade Russia for god knows why, lose a shitload of experienced troops, and allow the English to get their shit together. -
WW2 Nazi GermanyGotta go with Race, he was there!
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WW1 Imperial Germany
When it comes to Germany we definitely do.dnc said:
I don't deal in hypotheticalsYellowSnow said:
This is highly debatable. Remember WWI Germany never got anywhere near Moscow and the Russians held them off for nearly 4 years. If the Bolsheviks don't get into Power, Russia would have kept on fighting. And the Western Front SOS was much, much higher in WWI.dnc said:
Conversely, that was a shit tier WWI Russia with a fucking pansy ass czar at the helm (thanks @Rasputin!) rather than a military mind. Also a Russia that was *this* close to Implosion.gif.YellowSnow said:Carlin lays out a very compelling argument in favor of WW1 Germany...
1- Imperial Germany had 40 + years to prepare where as Nazi's only had 6 years.
2- The Generals ran the show for WWI Germany - i.e., no mad man at the helm, and they didn't make stupid decisions based on ideology. Think how much man power and resources were wasted on the Final Solution.
3- Imperial Germany actually had a navy that was worth a shit, although they didn't use it much.
4- Imperial Germany actually knocked out Russia, while fighting France and Britain at the same time and remember that France and Britain in WWI were willing to lose and entire generation of their youth to "win" in places like Verdun and the Somme. This, of course, was not the case in WWI were those two powers basically rolled over and died.
5- WWI was very much in doubt until late in the 4th Quarter and the Germans had a realistic chance to win. Nazi Germany on the other hand had lost the war by half time (i.e., late 1942 - early 1943) and that was before America was really heavy into the fight.
Hitler's eastern front SOS was much higher.
Still a chinteresting debate. -
YellowSnow said:
Yes, except this isn't really what happened in WWI. After Germany failed to knock out France and Britain at the First Battle of Marne in 1914, they basically went on the strategic defensive on the Western Front until Spring 1918. Most of the stupid Civil War era infantry charges against machine guns and barbed wire were British and French Generals continually launching offensives to push the Germans out of France and Belgium. Once Germany knew they were a war of attrition in WWI their strategy was sound as fuck, which can't be said of WWII. Ludendorff and Hindenburg were far better strategists than Hitler.PostGameOrangeSlices said:WW2 Germany and it's not close.
Who cares if the generals had more say in WW1? Say in what, sending thousands to run to their deaths against trench fortified machine guns?
Nazi German overextended by a fucking lot. They couldnt be satisfied with annexing France and Poland, they just had to spread themselves too thin and attack Russia. If they had fortified, given themselves time to get their new recruits up to speed, and not helped a fucking stupid Italy blunder along in Greece, America would have had a real problem and might not have been able to beat them.
It was probably a matter of time before Russia attacked the eastern flank, but a Russian offensive would have been a joke. Wasting away half of your troops in an offensive in Russia, during the winter, was an all-time dumb fuckup.
Same shit happened to Napolean. Power hungry despots, for some reason, arent happy with conquering the nice parts of Europe. They are compelled to invade Russia for god knows why, lose a shitload of experienced troops, and allow the English to get their shit together.
Yeah but still -
WW1 Imperial Germany
Hitler came out chucking bombs and bubble screens.YellowSnow said:
Yes, except this isn't really what happened in WWI. After Germany failed to knock out France and Britain at the First Battle of Marne in 1914, they basically went on the strategic defensive on the Western Front until Spring 1918. Most of the stupid Civil War era infantry charges against machine guns and barbed wire were British and French Generals continually launching offensives to push the Germans out of France and Belgium. Once Germany knew they were a war of attrition in WWI their strategy was sound as fuck, which can't be said of WWII. Ludendorff and Hindenburg were far better strategists than Hitler.PostGameOrangeSlices said:WW2 Germany and it's not close.
Who cares if the generals had more say in WW1? Say in what, sending thousands to run to their deaths against trench fortified machine guns?
Nazi German overextended by a fucking lot. They couldnt be satisfied with annexing France and Poland, they just had to spread themselves too thin and attack Russia. If they had fortified, given themselves time to get their new recruits up to speed, and not helped a fucking stupid Italy blunder along in Greece, America would have had a real problem and might not have been able to beat them.
It was probably a matter of time before Russia attacked the eastern flank, but a Russian offensive would have been a joke. Wasting away half of your troops in an offensive in Russia, during the winter, was an all-time dumb fuckup.
Same shit happened to Napolean. Power hungry despots, for some reason, arent happy with conquering the nice parts of Europe. They are compelled to invade Russia for god knows why, lose a shitload of experienced troops, and allow the English to get their shit together.
It just took awhile for Stalin and Roosevelt to get their own guys in there.
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WW2 Nazi GermanyI'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
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WW1 Imperial Germany
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force? -
WW1 Imperial GermanyI'd love to get @BearsWiin 's hot take after he gets done looking at nothing special chicks at the gym and taking the kiddies to the beach. FTG and FML!!
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WW2 Nazi Germany
His take will be nothing specialYellowSnow said:I'd love to get @BearsWiin 's hot take after he gets done looking at nothing special chicks at the gym and taking the kiddies to the beach. FTG and FML!!
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WW2 Nazi Germany
YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DEBATE LET ME BE MEYellowSnow said:
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force? -
WW1 Imperial Germany
I don't like how you poast sometimes @Swaye . YOU'RE DANGEROUS!!!Swaye said:
YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DEBATE LET ME BE MEYellowSnow said:
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force?
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@CuntWaffle > LuftwaffeYellowSnow said:
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force? -
WW2 Nazi Germany
Kiddies started school today, so I hit the gym early after I drove them and their friends in. Sirius dearth of special chicks; I think the young moms are all still on vaca roadtrips with they're preschool bratsYellowSnow said:I'd love to get @BearsWiin 's hot take after he gets done looking at nothing special chicks at the gym and taking the kiddies to the beach. FTG and FML!!
Both loosers. Who was better, Ty or Gilby? -
WW2 Nazi Germanydnc said:
@CuntWaffle > LuftwaffeYellowSnow said:
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force?
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WW2 Nazi Germany
Probably. The Cuntwaffle was designed around the CAS mission. They had no heavy bombers I can even think of. Their F/A Squadrons put the A in Attack. Not so much the F. They were built to support the Blitzkrieg, and they were HIGHLY effective in this role, but were MUCH less effective in a strategic role. Even the planes were designed for that role (short range). The RAF punched them in the nose over and over in A2A. I get your point, and I agree that better planes, designed more for A2A than CAS would certainly have helped, but even their training infrastructure was geared toward supporting infantry and tanks, not sustained air superiority engagements. So, in short, I think German losses in the air in WW2 had less to do with incompetent leadership than many think, and more to do with the role this air force was created to fulfill. Hell, I don't think the Germany military in general was built for a prolonged struggle. The Field Marshalls designed this thing to hit hard and quick, and win or lose just as fast.YellowSnow said:
Except that's not what we're debating here. Stay on topic Kemosabe.Swaye said:I'm going with Hitler here. He bitch slapped Paul Von Hindenburg, the German military commander of WWI, into making him Chancellor in 1932. Hindenburg beat Hitler in the elections in 1932, regaining the Presidency, but that was just the first half. Hitler so fucked shit up after the elections that he forced Hindenburg to capitualte to his demands to make him Chancellor, rode it out until Hindy died the next year, and declared himself Der Furor! So independent of what their armies ever did, Hitler > Hindenburg. Winners win.
Consider: WWI was able to field the best fighter of the war - i.e., Fokker D7 and get it deployed in large numbers. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe stepped on their dicks for all of WWII because they were being run by an incompetent, homo junkie. They had done test flights of the Me262 in 1941 and fucked around for 3 years before getting a few into combat by 1944. You think we could have bombed the shit our of Germany if they had a competent air force? -
