There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
I want them both. Doesn’t mean we have to pretend like this kid is Joe Ngata or in the upper tier of WR’s that’s where the disconnect is. 6’4 4.4 hell yeah sign him up and hope Pete can work his magic. But there’s a reason a 6’4 4.4 WR isn’t being sought after by the big programs.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
I want them both. Doesn’t mean we have to pretend like this kid is Joe Ngata or in the upper tier of WR’s that’s where the disconnect is. 6’4 4.4 hell yeah sign him up and hope Pete can work his magic. But there’s a reason a 6’4 4.4 WR isn’t being sought after by the big programs.
Nobody said he was as good as Joe Ngata. He blew up last Spring and has been pursued by UW, TCU, Oklahoma State, and Texas at different times in his recruitment. That's a pretty good list of schools.
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
Not evidence. Conjecture and assumption. If he consistently catches the ball every time nobody gives a fuck.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
Not evidence. Conjecture and assumption. If he consistently catches the ball every time nobody gives a fuck.
You can disagree with conclusions drawn which you have in this thread- like when you said who cares if he catches with his body?
You haven't given any analysis of the actual tape though so you can't disagree with the actual observations.
I almost never watch these highlight reels but I did here and there were quite a few catches that he struggled with despite being wide open and throws being on target. In particular I point you to the catches at 3:00 and 4:00 he left a lot of yards on the table by not catching easy balls in stride. At 3:00 he has to dive for some reason- would have been a TD. at 4:00 he needlessly runs himself out of bounds.
Part of it is catching it with his body which reduces his catch radius but I think another issue is he isn't very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. Need to get this kid on the baseball diamond this spring playing CF.
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is. This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
Not evidence. Conjecture and assumption. If he consistently catches the ball every time nobody gives a fuck.
You can disagree with conclusions drawn which you have in this thread- like when you said who cares if he catches with his body?
You haven't given any analysis of the actual tape though so you can't disagree with the actual observations.
I almost never watch these highlight reels but I did here and there were quite a few catches that he struggled with despite being wide open and throws being on target. In particular I point you to the catches at 3:00 and 4:00 he left a lot of yards on the table by not catching easy balls in stride. At 3:00 he has to dive for some reason- would have been a TD. at 4:00 he needlessly runs himself out of bounds.
Part of it is catching it with his body which reduces his catch radius but I think another issue is he isn't very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. Need to get this kid on the baseball diamond this spring playing CF.
The catches on his highlight film look fine to me. I don't see anything concerning. Again, body catching is not necessarily a negative. Conclusions drawn about a receivers hands on a highlight film are retarded. Nobody but the coaches know how many drops he had if he had any at all. It's a stupid argument. A catch is a catch. There are NBA player that have ugly shooting motions but are still good shooters.
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is. This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.
Thats fine and all but you're on a tangent now. The original idiscusson of Lewis using his body is that he doesn't appear confident in his hands not as some type of conscious strategy he is employing as a high schooler because he is afraid of the 5'8" 170 lb safeties he is going against.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
Not evidence. Conjecture and assumption. If he consistently catches the ball every time nobody gives a fuck.
You can disagree with conclusions drawn which you have in this thread- like when you said who cares if he catches with his body?
You haven't given any analysis of the actual tape though so you can't disagree with the actual observations.
I almost never watch these highlight reels but I did here and there were quite a few catches that he struggled with despite being wide open and throws being on target. In particular I point you to the catches at 3:00 and 4:00 he left a lot of yards on the table by not catching easy balls in stride. At 3:00 he has to dive for some reason- would have been a TD. at 4:00 he needlessly runs himself out of bounds.
Part of it is catching it with his body which reduces his catch radius but I think another issue is he isn't very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. Need to get this kid on the baseball diamond this spring playing CF.
The catches on his highlight film look fine to me. I don't see anything concerning. Again, body catching is not necessarily a negative. Conclusions drawn about a receivers hands on a highlight film are retarded. Nobody but the coaches know how many drops he had if he had any at all. It's a stupid argument. A catch is a catch. There are NBA player that have ugly shooting motions but are still good shooters.
And there are more players who can drain 3s in practice but not in games. How Lewis goes and gets the ball or uses his hands are more important observations than how many catches he had or didn't have because when he faces harder competition he is going to have to make more difficult and contested catches.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is. This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.
Only thing I would add is this...UW lacks gamebreaking outside speed, and always seems to lack outside speed with size. This guy has both which differentiates him from all other receivers on the roster as well as other 2019 targets. I'd try to make room for him without backing off of Ford.
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is. This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.
Your eyes are as good as mine grandpa sankey:
I watched him coach receivers that were getting prepared for the draft as part of an NFL network show and he said out of his own mouth that he always preferred catching the ball with his body when running routes over the middle (slants, digs, drags, etc).
So one guy has the opinion that he struggles catching the ball and it is now a board fact? Sure I was joking when I said I don't see any drops on his highlight film but what if there really are no drops on his complete game film? If he catches the ball every time who cares how he catches it? I don't think people understand how many NFL WR's catch the ball with their body instead of their hands. It's pretty common and in certain situations the preferred way to catch it. If he had a problem with drops I don't think we'd be recruiting him.
Pure nonsense. I’ve never experience or heard of a WR coach that coaches his guys to catch with their body. I see body catches every weekend, but it’s not the preferred way to ever catch it.
Sorry but no. Many receivers prefer catching the ball with their body when running routes over the middle when they know they might get popped right after catching. A body catch is easier to hold onto when taking a hit than a hands catch is. This is something Michael Irvin did during his playing days and has talked about. You also have the go or post route catch. Many are taught to catch the ball with their hands reaching above their head but in reality this is a dead give away to the DB that the ball is in the air and it allows them to attack the receivers hands when the ball arrives and punch it loose preventing the catch. Most receivers in the NFL are catching the ball at chest level with their body when running these routes. Guys like Tyler Lockett and Golden Tate come to mind as guys who consistently do this. Terrell Owens is another guy who caught the ball with his body a lot.
Thats fine and all but you're on a tangent now. The original idiscusson of Lewis using his body is that he doesn't appear confident in his hands not as some type of conscious strategy he is employing as a high schooler because he is afraid of the 5'8" 170 lb safeties he is going against.
Not a tangent at all. Using the body to catch is not at all a sign someone is not confident in their hands. NFL receivers do it all the time and are very confident in there catching ability.
There's zero evidence that he dropped any. I get it, we want Kyle Ford more. Doesn't mean we have to try to fabricate some flaw with this kid that might not actually exist.
Can we at least agree on a few basic points?
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
Not evidence. Conjecture and assumption. If he consistently catches the ball every time nobody gives a fuck.
You can disagree with conclusions drawn which you have in this thread- like when you said who cares if he catches with his body?
You haven't given any analysis of the actual tape though so you can't disagree with the actual observations.
I almost never watch these highlight reels but I did here and there were quite a few catches that he struggled with despite being wide open and throws being on target. In particular I point you to the catches at 3:00 and 4:00 he left a lot of yards on the table by not catching easy balls in stride. At 3:00 he has to dive for some reason- would have been a TD. at 4:00 he needlessly runs himself out of bounds.
Part of it is catching it with his body which reduces his catch radius but I think another issue is he isn't very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. Need to get this kid on the baseball diamond this spring playing CF.
The catches on his highlight film look fine to me. I don't see anything concerning. Again, body catching is not necessarily a negative. Conclusions drawn about a receivers hands on a highlight film are retarded. Nobody but the coaches know how many drops he had if he had any at all. It's a stupid argument. A catch is a catch. There are NBA player that have ugly shooting motions but are still good shooters.
And there are more players who can drain 3s in practice but not in games. How Lewis goes and gets the ball or uses his hands are more important observations than how many catches he had or didn't have because when he faces harder competition he is going to have to make more difficult and contested catches.
No it's not. You're wrong. Catch consistency is way more important than the way you catch the ball.
I said he's not a natural at it. Some guys just have great hands and he clearly does not.
If you are 6-4, 195, run 4.4 and have great hands you are Julio Jones. This guy is not.
Every player has weaknesses to their game and if they are just completely elite, I'm sure Bama will be on them. There are just few players that have it ALL.
Comments
1. There is such a thing as "good hands". This is a skill. Some WRs, even at the NFL level, have higher catch rates than others.
2. Even a WR with "bad hands" will catch more than he drops.
2a. Therefore a highlight reel will always only contain catches as it is a biased sample.
3. A catch can look more natural or more awkward and from this an observer can make some inferences about catch rate even from this biased sample. Just like watching highlight reels of 20% and 40% 3 point shooters.
4. These observations of how easy or difficult Lewis made the catches look are in fact EVIDENCE that Lewis doesn't have great hands.
You haven't given any analysis of the actual tape though so you can't disagree with the actual observations.
I almost never watch these highlight reels but I did here and there were quite a few catches that he struggled with despite being wide open and throws being on target. In particular I point you to the catches at 3:00 and 4:00 he left a lot of yards on the table by not catching easy balls in stride. At 3:00 he has to dive for some reason- would have been a TD. at 4:00 he needlessly runs himself out of bounds.
Part of it is catching it with his body which reduces his catch radius but I think another issue is he isn't very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. Need to get this kid on the baseball diamond this spring playing CF.
Only thing I would add is this...UW lacks gamebreaking outside speed, and always seems to lack outside speed with size. This guy has both which differentiates him from all other receivers on the roster as well as other 2019 targets. I'd try to make room for him without backing off of Ford.
I said he's not a natural at it. Some guys just have great hands and he clearly does not.
If you are 6-4, 195, run 4.4 and have great hands you are Julio Jones. This guy is not.
Every player has weaknesses to their game and if they are just completely elite, I'm sure Bama will be on them. There are just few players that have it ALL.
When Bama is recruiting this guy let me know.