GOP Plan Orders Insurers to Charge People 30% More If Uninsured for 63 Days

2001400ex

greenblood said:

2001400ex said:

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

My health care shouldn't be determined with a profit motive.

Profit drives R&D. Without that, good luck developing new drugs and procedures.

Read my other post. There still has to be free market in the operations side.

dflea

Doogles said:

2001400ex said:

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

My health care shouldn't be determined with a profit motive.

Agree, but how do you inspire individuals to pursue expertise in medicine and spend a decade plus of their life going into six fig debt without paying them accordingly.

It's a tricky fucking problem no doubt.

I don't think the majority of doctors are motivated by their income potential. They are truly caring people that want to help other people.

Pharmaceuticals is a different animal, though. I do think the best new drugs are developed by the profit motive, and might not see the light of day otherwise. Perhaps the government could step in and spend some of the billions they piss away yearly on developing new drugs?

The whole thing is complicated and can't be solved with doogie "take care of yourself" bullshit, though.

dhdawg

2001400ex said:

Doogles said:

2001400ex said:

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

My health care shouldn't be determined with a profit motive.

Agree, but how do you inspire individuals to pursue expertise in medicine and spend a decade plus of their life going into six fig debt without paying them accordingly.

It's a tricky fucking problem no doubt.

I'm not talking doctors or pharmacists. I'm talking the person paying the bill trying to tell me what procedure to get. That should be between me and the doctor, who should get paid for ensuring I have the right medical care.

you can still have private hospitals and drug companies who receive public funding as opposed to private middlemen. countries like France and Germany use a system like that.
Doctors would have their pay cut, but they would also no longer need to pay as much for malpractice insurance as the cost of future care as a result of it would no longer fall on the individual. It is a tricky subject. but other countries seem to be doing it better so we should probably take a hint from them.

doogie

dhdawg said:

bananasnblondes said:

Obama care is going to be tricky for the GOP to fight because it is, in essence, a Republican plan - it's Romney's health care plan. Obama wanted single payer but new hr couldnt fet it through congress so he crafted the plan after the best republican plan out there. The GOP will not be able to "tweak a few things" and come up with a better plan. The next health care act in America will be extreme, either single-payer or completely free market and it probably won't come g or awhile.

at first I didn't buy into the "Obamacare was supposed to fail leading to single payer" but now I sort of see some of the genius in it.

you dedicate an entire provision to preventing companies from denying people for pre-existing conditions. Republicans know they can't get rid of that and stay in office. But you can't keep that provision without many of the other aspects. that is along with lifetime caps, etc.

what I think the GOP will try to do is do nothing and gut the bill, let it collapse, and then use that as proof that "socialized medicine" doesn't work.

problem is they ran on replacing it, and their president ran on "cheaper insurance for everyone." So they're in a corner.

All that you need now is a democratic presidential candidate that can frame it correctly in 2020. not Hillary who's against it because she's bought off

You see genius in how you fell for lies?

TierbsHsotBoobs

doogie said:

dhdawg said:

bananasnblondes said:

Obama care is going to be tricky for the GOP to fight because it is, in essence, a Republican plan - it's Romney's health care plan. Obama wanted single payer but new hr couldnt fet it through congress so he crafted the plan after the best republican plan out there. The GOP will not be able to "tweak a few things" and come up with a better plan. The next health care act in America will be extreme, either single-payer or completely free market and it probably won't come g or awhile.

at first I didn't buy into the "Obamacare was supposed to fail leading to single payer" but now I sort of see some of the genius in it.

you dedicate an entire provision to preventing companies from denying people for pre-existing conditions. Republicans know they can't get rid of that and stay in office. But you can't keep that provision without many of the other aspects. that is along with lifetime caps, etc.

what I think the GOP will try to do is do nothing and gut the bill, let it collapse, and then use that as proof that "socialized medicine" doesn't work.

problem is they ran on replacing it, and their president ran on "cheaper insurance for everyone." So they're in a corner.

All that you need now is a democratic presidential candidate that can frame it correctly in 2020. not Hillary who's against it because she's bought off

You see genius in how you fell for lies?

Is Mexico paying for the wall yet?

2001400ex

doogie said:

dhdawg said:

bananasnblondes said:

Obama care is going to be tricky for the GOP to fight because it is, in essence, a Republican plan - it's Romney's health care plan. Obama wanted single payer but new hr couldnt fet it through congress so he crafted the plan after the best republican plan out there. The GOP will not be able to "tweak a few things" and come up with a better plan. The next health care act in America will be extreme, either single-payer or completely free market and it probably won't come g or awhile.

at first I didn't buy into the "Obamacare was supposed to fail leading to single payer" but now I sort of see some of the genius in it.

you dedicate an entire provision to preventing companies from denying people for pre-existing conditions. Republicans know they can't get rid of that and stay in office. But you can't keep that provision without many of the other aspects. that is along with lifetime caps, etc.

what I think the GOP will try to do is do nothing and gut the bill, let it collapse, and then use that as proof that "socialized medicine" doesn't work.

problem is they ran on replacing it, and their president ran on "cheaper insurance for everyone." So they're in a corner.

All that you need now is a democratic presidential candidate that can frame it correctly in 2020. not Hillary who's against it because she's bought off

You see genius in how you fell for lies?

I'm hearing Trump would repeal Obamacare on day 1.

doogie

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

Healthcare? or health Insurance?

topdawgnc

dhdawg said:

he needs more time. 7 years was not enough

The Republicans never expected to be in a position to do what they said they would do.

It is much easier to tell someone their shirt is wrinkled, than having to actually iron it.

Fuck the GOP, fuck the democrats.

Woof

2001400ex said:

Doogles said:

2001400ex said:

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

My health care shouldn't be determined with a profit motive.

Agree, but how do you inspire individuals to pursue expertise in medicine and spend a decade plus of their life going into six fig debt without paying them accordingly.

It's a tricky fucking problem no doubt.

I'm not talking doctors or pharmacists. I'm talking the person paying the bill trying to tell me what procedure to get. That should be between me and the doctor, who should get paid for ensuring I have the right medical care.

I've always found this line of thought incredibly stupid due to the way healthcare and health insurance is structured in the US. As an example:

- For most helicopter parents these days, if their kid has the sniffles, fuck what it costs, they want the doctor to run every test possible, regardless of logic

- From the doctor's perspective, it makes sense for them to say yes to most of helicopter parent's demands, because if the 0.0001% chance that Suzie has racebannon-syndrome comes to fruition, they're going to get their asses sued

- Neither person really cares about cost in this case, so the insurance company ends up paying for a few extra tests that don't really make sense, fighting with the doctors, and denying claims (and thus being vilified)

Neither of the supposedly rational actors in this situation are acting rationally here, and it leads to billions wasted in unnecessary procedures and millions of hours of back and forth between doctors / patients / and insurance companies.

Not sure how to fix this mess. I just know that I don't trust the vast pool of mental midgets in this country to make rational healthcare decisions.

2001400ex

Woof said:

2001400ex said:

Doogles said:

2001400ex said:

greenblood said:

It comes down to conflicting ideas. Is good healthcare a privilege or a right?

My health care shouldn't be determined with a profit motive.

Agree, but how do you inspire individuals to pursue expertise in medicine and spend a decade plus of their life going into six fig debt without paying them accordingly.

It's a tricky fucking problem no doubt.

I'm not talking doctors or pharmacists. I'm talking the person paying the bill trying to tell me what procedure to get. That should be between me and the doctor, who should get paid for ensuring I have the right medical care.

I've always found this line of thought incredibly stupid due to the way healthcare and health insurance is structured in the US. As an example:

- For most helicopter parents these days, if their kid has the sniffles, fuck what it costs, they want the doctor to run every test possible, regardless of logic

- From the doctor's perspective, it makes sense for them to say yes to most of helicopter parent's demands, because if the 0.0001% chance that Suzie has racebannon-syndrome comes to fruition, they're going to get their asses sued

- Neither person really cares about cost in this case, so the insurance company ends up paying for a few extra tests that don't really make sense, fighting with the doctors, and denying claims (and thus being vilified)

Neither of the supposedly rational actors in this situation are acting rationally here, and it leads to billions wasted in unnecessary procedures and millions of hours of back and forth between doctors / patients / and insurance companies.

Not sure how to fix this mess. I just know that I don't trust the vast pool of mental midgets in this country to make rational healthcare decisions.

While yet is an issue for the 90% that are current covered, I'm not thinking the other 10% that don't currently have insurance would add to that issue much. That being said, I'm sure the reduced waste in billing that currently goes on will easily cover those people.