All Time Historical Existential Threats to US Power Rankings
Comments
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This is really one of the more interesting "counter factuals" in US History- i.e., what if we had not had (or lost) the Revolution and went the Canada route towards gradual independence. Most historians argue that remaining part of British Empire would have been far better if your were and Indian or of African Descent. Remember the Brits abolished slavery in their colonies by 1833. And they were a lot more concerned with trying to keep Whitey from taking all of the Indian land.RaceBannon said:The British only slaughtered their colored colonies and even at that they lost them
Worst case we end up a commonwealth. More likely we keep trying until we won.
The wild card is Canada. People forget they are 1 and 0 against us -
YellowSnow said:
Like dinosaur killing shit?Swaye said:SMOD
Everything else
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My kids read that in the Summer between 7th and 8th grade. Cool.Southerndawg said:
That's why I love this place, there are people in here who have actually read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fate of Human Societies .... or maybe simply watched the NG series. Either way, cool beans.Swaye said:
Too soon. Dick.Southerndawg said:
Good book, by the wayYellowSnow said:
Whitey had too much Guns, Germs and Steel. Some burnt wagons and cabins but no existential threat.Pitchfork51 said:Swaye vs whitey
Reminds me of the title of an article in The Onion's Our Dumb Century book: "Should Indian Slaughter be Regulated?"
Satire, Injun. Please let me keep my scalp. -
Let's take it now: Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
Greed is Good. -
This - except I'm actually in favor in "absorbing" all of Canada from Ontario west. Too much land and resources wasted on too few Canadians. Let Frog Canucks go independent and the Maritimes back to England (thinking ahead here to "little" England).TurdBuffer said:
Let's take it now: Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
Greed is Good. -
Explains why you couldn't read it, and all the sexual tension between you and Hondo.TurdBuffer said:
My kids read that in the Summer between 7th and 8th grade. Cool.Southerndawg said:
That's why I love this place, there are people in here who have actually read Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fate of Human Societies .... or maybe simply watched the NG series. Either way, cool beans.Swaye said:
Too soon. Dick.Southerndawg said:
Good book, by the wayYellowSnow said:
Whitey had too much Guns, Germs and Steel. Some burnt wagons and cabins but no existential threat.Pitchfork51 said:Swaye vs whitey
Reminds me of the title of an article in The Onion's Our Dumb Century book: "Should Indian Slaughter be Regulated?"
Satire, Injun. Please let me keep my scalp. -
China could destroy our economy if they wanted. All they have to do is call in our debts and we? are fucked.
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Not really. This is a case of MAD in abundance.backthepack said:China could destroy our economy if they wanted. All they have to do is call in our debts and we? are fucked.
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I don't see video games and rap music on this list.
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Confederacy is #1
Fucking east coast and mid-west bias
SEC SEC -
Tennessee sucked in the original CSA conference. First state conquered by the Yankees and first one be re-admitted to the Union.tenndawg said:Confederacy is #1
Fucking east coast and mid-west bias
SEC SEC -
My point was they were a generation away from being the biggest.YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
They quit the same way the US did in Vietnam. -
YellowSnow dropping knowledge in here. Great thread
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Coincidence: @DerekJohnson is a Tennessee fan.YellowSnow said:
Tennessee sucked in the original CSA conference. First state conquered by the Yankees and first one be re-admitted to the Union.tenndawg said:Confederacy is #1
Fucking east coast and mid-west bias
SEC SEC -
If Hitler would have waited for the winter to be over he would have beaten Russia with the force he had.
Japan should have went after China instead of us. If we would have waited another 18 months to enter Britian would have been toast and we would of had a hell of a time making a landing anywhere other than Africa and trying to go in through the Costa Brava region.
Hitler got too impatient and too kill-Jewey too soon. -
So...Mosster47 said:If Hitler would have waited for the winter to be over he would have beaten Russia with the force he had.
Japan should have went after China instead of us. If we would have waited another 18 months to enter Britian would have been toast and we would of had a hell of a time making a landing anywhere other than Africa and trying to go in through the Costa Brava region.
Hitler got too impatient and too kill-Jewey too soon.
You're saying Hitler needed more time to get his own guys in there?
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That was also my point that you disagreed with. Their quitting was inevitable.ThomasFremont said:
My point was they were a generation away from being the biggest.YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
They quit the same way the US did in Vietnam. -
The challenge for the Germans in every war has been getting the logistics and timing right. The Schlieffen plan says hi. I don't think it can be understated, no matter how perfect the timing and conditions how difficult it is to conquer the Russians because of the amount of space and sheer amount of cannon fodder and their willingness to use it. Derek Stalin was a master of this. Once the Germans got turned back at the gates of Moscow in December on 1941, their fate was sealed in that they probably couldn't win a war of attrition against Russia, especially with the US entering the war.Mosster47 said:If Hitler would have waited for the winter to be over he would have beaten Russia with the force he had.
Japan should have went after China instead of us. If we would have waited another 18 months to enter Britian would have been toast and we would of had a hell of a time making a landing anywhere other than Africa and trying to go in through the Costa Brava region.
Hitler got too impatient and too kill-Jewey too soon.
In terms of timing, there wasn't much they could do about starting before June as the roads aren't good enough before then. There was no autobahn to Moscow after all. Their odds of success would have probably been higher to focus on first starving out the Brits and taking the Middle East- i.e., cut off their bloodline to the rest of the Empire. In other words, wait until June of 1942. But Hitler was impatient to get on with it, and this wasn't a completely insane gamble. Remember that operation Barbarossa caught Stalin completely off guard and it did almost work. But there were just too many Red Army soldiers to kill and land to conquer and occupy. And if they waited until the following June, that was just another year for Stalin to regroup and rebuild the Red Army after the purges of the later 1930's.
As you point out as well, the Final Solution was a major drain on man power and transportation that could have gone towards the war effort. -
You're absolutely right Race that their quitting was inevitable, but only after the Continental Army had it's "Tet" moment which was crossing the Deleware- i.e., proof that Washington could keep the Army together and not give up, and Saratoga convinced the French that we could win. When Washington lost NYC it looked like the rout was on and the cause was lost.RaceBannon said:
That was also my point that you disagreed with. Their quitting was inevitable.ThomasFremont said:
My point was they were a generation away from being the biggest.YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
They quit the same way the US did in Vietnam. -
If all things were equal I'd have gone with japan. The fact they were willing to kill themselves to kill a few soldiers and had convinced civilians to kill themselves rather than be taken is pretty crazy. Asian people
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Muslim pirates are gay. No yo ho ho ho and a bottle of rum.Doog_de_Jour said:
Indeed. It is one of my favorite lesser known wars of US military history though - I mean, come on, there were PIRATES! and our biggest ally was Sweden.YellowSnow said:
Big PIA for the early Republic but no existential threat either. Good historical footnote, however, in that this ain't our first rodeo with Muslims.Doog_de_Jour said:No love for the Barbary states?
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Yeah, without the alliance with the French it was far from inevitable. Washington created enough sizzle on the field while his top recruiter Ben Franklin was doing at home visits with the Maquis de Lafayette.YellowSnow said:
You're absolutely right Race that their quitting was inevitable, but only after the Continental Army had it's "Tet" moment which was crossing the Deleware- i.e., proof that Washington could keep the Army together and not give up, and Saratoga convinced the French that we could win. When Washington lost NYC it looked like the rout was on and the cause was lost.RaceBannon said:
That was also my point that you disagreed with. Their quitting was inevitable.ThomasFremont said:
My point was they were a generation away from being the biggest.YellowSnow said:
Depends upon which British Empire you're talking about. The one I reference - i.e., that during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 - was a lot smaller than the "Sun Never Sets Up It" British Empire which didn't really get going until the mid to later 1800's. By that point the only real threat that version of the Empire posed to us was getting the in way of our Manifest Destiny (we should have taken British Columbia) and they were considering recognizing the CSA which would have been bad.ThomasFremont said:
The largest empire in human history too high?RaceBannon said:Great Britain too high. They could have won but they would have faced the same kind of price at home that we would face today if we killed all our cousins if we had cousins in a country giving us shit and dumping our tea.
1 Soviets - they had nukes
2. Nazis - they had desire
3. Japan - fuckers were crazy
4. China today
5. Iran today
Fuck the rest
*sigh*
They quit the same way the US did in Vietnam.
WOOF. -
This thread is making me think but not care.
Sad! -
If a thread fails to achieve both objectives, is it then more important that it makes you "think" or that it makes you "care"?BennyBeaver said:This thread is making me think but not care.
Sad! -
Yeah, Tennessee was the Vanderbilt of the ConfederacyYellowSnow said:
Tennessee sucked in the original CSA conference. First state conquered by the Yankees and first one be re-admitted to the Union.tenndawg said:Confederacy is #1
Fucking east coast and mid-west bias
SEC SEC -
Gay pirates? Well, I guess the all that citrus kept away the scurvy.YellowSnow said:
Muslim pirates are gay. No yo ho ho ho and a bottle of rum.Doog_de_Jour said:
Indeed. It is one of my favorite lesser known wars of US military history though - I mean, come on, there were PIRATES! and our biggest ally was Sweden.YellowSnow said:
Big PIA for the early Republic but no existential threat either. Good historical footnote, however, in that this ain't our first rodeo with Muslims.Doog_de_Jour said:No love for the Barbary states?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dysG12QCdTA
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I don't care.YellowSnow said:
If a thread fails to achieve both objectives, is it then more important that it makes you "think" or that it makes you "care"?BennyBeaver said:This thread is making me think but not care.
Sad!
