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TSIO Episode #28: UW 2017 Recruiting Class Review
CokeGreaterThanPepsi
Member Posts: 7,646
Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.
Heavy TBS trigger warning.
We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.
traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a
Heavy TBS trigger warning.
We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.
traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a
Tagged:
Comments
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I love you and I love THIS!
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Hahaha you remembered my good luck charm from last season!Gladstone said:I love you and I love THIS!
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FUCK YES! Pants came off and Doog boner fully engaged
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backthepack said:
FUCK YES! Pants came off and Doog boner fully engaged
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3 hours?
fuck yessssss -
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apparently UCLA came sniffing on Haener.
I know, it's hard to believe -
The fact that I was called "the inspirational leader" of what is likely to become the greatest poodcast ever means my life is complete. I can die now.
One last FREE PUB MOTHERFUCKERS! before I go to the old wigwam in the sky... -
*chinspirational
Fuck I suck at this. -
Imagine how much you would suck if you were whiteSwaye said:*chinspirational
Fuck I suck at this. -
Speaking on Injun shit, I was surprised @Spirit_Horse didn't get any FREE PUB for calling Ty Jones staying when everyone was freaking out. I'm only 50 minutes in, so perhaps he gets his due during the Marlon segment. Or the Lake segment. 3-0 on hard calls early this year bitches.whlinder said:
Imagine how much you would suck if you were whiteSwaye said:*chinspirational
Fuck I suck at this.
#SpiritHorse4lyfe -
Just got to Hunter Bryant. I love you mother fuckers so much
right nowall the time! BATTERY! -
2 hours of 55 minutes of TBSing from you fuckers? That's half my flight! Praise ALLAH.
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I have high hopes for Noorgard
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*chinsubordination
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7WoRuGED-E -
@Tequilla I think Costco is a better nikname for Kirkland
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Burmeister sucks.
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Praise be Allah! You guys finally came through ... (Made my day)
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Let me save you three hours:
In looking through the comments for our last few podcasts, I've noticed that there have been requests and/or disappointments that we didn't talk or discuss this topic or that topic or whatever. As the podcast has been drifting towards 2 hours as it is (probably about 30 minutes longer than ideal) given the large number of topics/interest in the program, it's just impossible to get through everything.
While texting today about the latest developments at Cal today, I thought it'd be a good idea to put out a topic that quite honestly we likely won't get into on the pod anytime in the near future (if at all) but is interesting enough that I'm sure that @CokeGreaterThanPepsi, @Dennis_DeYoung and I will have very strong, and potentially very different opinions on. So on with the topic ... "Progams Exploiting Market Inefficiencies to Fast Track Competitiveness."
Both Cal and Oregon have made coaching changes this offseason and while you could argue that both of them have made reasonable, but not necessarily inspiring, head coaching hires, it's very difficult to argue against the fact that they are putting together high end assistant staffs.
One of the topics that we've collectively been very adamant about is how important recruiting is in building up the foundation of the program. Simply put, if you don't recruit at a high level, barring insane development levels, you've already lost on the field 2-3 years down the road.
Going back historically with Oregon about 10+ years ago, two areas where they outpaced the competition and it allowed it to really get a leg up in recruiting were tied to being one of the first programs to really embrace the arms race with respect to facilities and then the variety in their uniforms. As time has progressed, almost every program has upgraded their facilities and so many programs have different uniforms that those "advantages" for Oregon have fallen back.
Another prevalent theme that those that remember the Don James era and now are seeing similar with Chris Petersen, and then comparing that to what we see around the country with the elite level coaches like Saban, Meyer, etc. is that there are only a handful of those elite coaches in place. Make no mistake, when you have an elite level coach in place, while the assistants are important, the stability at the top of your program with consistent messaging, vision, and way that work is done is almost impossible to duplicate. The resume build that assistants get from being on your staff is tremendous which allows the HC to have the ability to get high end assistants on a fairly consistent basis. The vulnerability though is that the turnover in assistants can be high as those positions are stepping stones to bigger/better jobs.
What I see in what Cal and Oregon doing is that they looked at the market and their own situations and decided that since they will not be able to get an elite level HC now (or likely anytime in the future), that instead of wasting resources on an above average HC, they would go after HC candidates that may over time develop into that on the cheap while devoting the resources to securing as deep and talented of an assistant staff as they could get. The idea behind that is that the splashes made by pulling ace recruiters together will allow the staff to increase their recruiting ability and down the road that will increase their on field performance ... if everything plays out right then the HC develops during that period and by the time all the pieces come together you get magic.
On the surface, this isn't a terrible idea. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again ... and in the case of programs like Cal and Oregon, trying to operate in the same manner as the power schools in the PAC like USC or Washington operate is a recipe for falling in line behind them. The down side of this though is the part that nobody is talking about. Right now, it's a bunch of free pub and offseason natty talk because the staffs are great. There's no question that there will be recruiting upticks. The downside though is that the assistants that are being hired are being lured with more money and responsibility than what they could get from their existing elite schools for one reason or another. It's not so much that these coaches are in a position that they can't do the jobs that they are being hired to do, but more that they've made it extremely clear through their actions that their expectation is that they are using this new job to jump somewhere else as soon as possible. And that's the problem ...
The problem with what Cal and Oregon are doing is that 2-4 years down the line, the balance of the assistant staffs that they are hiring today will be looking at either taking HC jobs elsewhere or using the positions that they have to leverage lateral moves to bigger programs with more established HC and more $$$ to finish out their resumes. These schools will perpetually be in a position where they are turning over staffs with one massive problem ... they are ultimately operating with a HC that will fall behind those of the national elite unless they get extremely lucky with their hire and that HC turns into a national elite ... at which point he likely gets plucked away anyway. Some of that is just what it is anyway ... but if the HC is what the HC is, to retain the HC the resources start to get shifted away from the assistants and towards the HC ... if the $$$ isn't there for the assistants then the recruiting base starts to crumble which leads to results starting to crumble, etc.
All in all, what Cal and Oregon are doing right now is a house of cards play that while the in the short term is exploiting some existing market inefficiencies, as the bigger programs become victims of this, they will continue to build ways to protect themselves from this kind of behavior going forward just like they did in the arms races for facilities and destroying the multi-uniform cool factor. These schools may have won this round ... but ultimately, college football has long proven that if you have the right Head Coach in place, that's the school that will ultimately win. -
Was looking out for youCFetters_Nacho_Lover said:2 hours of 55 minutes of TBSing from you fuckers? That's half my flight! Praise ALLAH.
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Some supplemental material for the pod...
We analyzed who got the guys that were hardest to get (1 = easy, 5 = very difficult) and here's how our coaches did on average:
@Babushka - 1.0 avg difficulty
Signed one shitty player who no one else wanted (I guess at the end UCLA, lol tried to poach him). Terrible job because his average misses were 3.8 and all those guys were good.
Bonerpopper - 2.0
Got a guy who was a 2, lost a guy who was a 2. He didn't see that loss coming so we turned down a visit from Stephen Carr, a 5-star RB from Cali who signed with SC.
Hamdan - 4.0
Three kids, all 4-stars, all difficult guys to get. Notre Dame was trying to poach Bynum the whole way. UCLA got no WRs this year because Bush robbed them. Bush missed on the top 3 WRs in the west and got the next best 3. Amazing.
Paopao - 1.5
While Paopao brought in Hunter Bryant and White TE (who we both love), degree of difficulty was low.
Straußer - 1.33
Bob Seger's biggest fan signed 3 players, lucking into decent guys, but the degree of difficulty was low on all of them. Anyone over a 2 we missed on.
Malloe - 1.5
I'm putting Lolohea in here because guys who are 6-1, 247 end up on the DL for us. He was kind of an average difficulty to get, but getting outfoxed on Marlon was a tragedy. Didn't get Tufele to visit.
Kwat - 1.0
We got killed on every good BUCK (lost the top 4 on our bored), fortunately we landed with Joe Tryon, but he was an easy kid to land.
Bob Greg - 3.0
Bob Greg continues to do solid work with LBs in NorCal. We whiffed on some kids, but overall we got a good player that wasn't SUPER easy to get.
Jimmy Lake - 4.33
Jimmy Lake got 3 kids who were all high degrees of difficulty to bring in. We missed on a few, but overall this guy locked down 3 of the best DBs in the west and they all had offers from big time teams.
IN SUM
Other than Hamdan and Lake (and to a lesser extent Gregory) we are just making layups and we are lucky there are so many kids around Washington's program who are easy to get. Only Bush and Lake really beat anyone out for kids we weren't favored for.
This shows you once again how important in-state recruiting is - outside of guys like Lake and Bush, all of our top players came from the state because that's who it's easy for us to get.
Babs' year is hard to accurately shit on. It was fucking colossally abysmal. Strausser was close to as bad, but he got lucky with Kirkland.
ALL HAIL BUSH. WE'RE GOING TO MISS YOU JIMMY! -
@Dennis_DeYoung
I see the numbers, but the sample size is small for Babushka (only take 1 QB). It is obvious ISIS and Lake are our aces, and it is obvious Babushka and Strausser suck...but who sucks the most? Take their coaching ability out of it because it is obvious Strausser is a great coach, and Babushka is somewhere between whale shit and that nasty white shit the forms in the corner of a drugged out bum's mouth. Just recruiting. Who is our biggest liability on staff? -
The samples sizes do complicate things without question. However, when you think of how many kids we tried to get, the picture becomes a little clearer. It's easy to calculate with how we recruit because we offer our top kids and move down the list (as opposed to shot-gunning offers).Swaye said:@Dennis_DeYoung
I see the numbers, but the sample size is small for Babushka (only take 1 QB). It is obvious ISIS and Lake are our aces, and it is obvious Babushka and Strausser suck...but who sucks the most? Take their coaching ability out of it because it is obvious Strausser is a great coach, and Babushka is somewhere between whale shit and that nasty white shit the forms in the corner of a drugged out bum's mouth. Just recruiting. Who is our biggest liability on staff?
So, we can look at how many guys we got from our first wave of offers...
Babs - First wave of offers got no one. 0%
Bonapha - First wave of offers: offered 4, got 1. 25%
Hamdan - Offered 6 early, got 3. 50%
Paopao - Got 1 of our top 3 (then added White TE, which doesn't really count). 33%
Strausser - Got 1 of our top 10. 10% conversion.
Malloe - Got 0 of our top 5. 0%
Kwat - Got 0 of our top 5. 0%
Gregory - Got 1 of our top 4. 25%
Lake - Got 3 of our top 13. 23%
Straußer has show some ability to not screw it up with in-state guys who are easy to get, but both he and Babs have lost 5-star in-state kids who both were hard to get (Skinny and Fozzy). Overall, it really seems unless we offer kids who have NO OFFERS (or are ridiculously easy to get) we aren't going to get anyone.
So, they are kind of indistinguishable.
On gut feel, I think Babushka is worse, though. -
Babushka - worst coach and worst recruiter. Check.
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He also looks like a beaver. So i guess he's got that going for him.Swaye said:Babushka - worst coach and worst recruiter. Check.
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Swaye - with Babushka increase sample size to other years and largely same story holds ... we got really lucky with Browning
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We did?Tequilla said:Swaye - with Babushka increase sample size to other years and largely same story holds ... we got really lucky with Browning
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Yes - for his shortcomings that he has to improve on he is still a very high end PAC12 QBTierbsHsotBoobs said:
We did?Tequilla said:Swaye - with Babushka increase sample size to other years and largely same story holds ... we got really lucky with Browning
