Jake Eldrenkamp was a meh recruit who barely saw the field for three years. Pete/Strausser turned him into an all Pac-12 guy and over the entirety of the last two years, he was their best OL. We've seen the same sort of success on the DL with several upperclass guys who appeared to be busts. So I'm not giving up yet on guys like Hilbers, Burleson, and James.
Yes I'm concerned about the state of OL recruiting, but not overly so. LIPO. We've got more experienced upperclass depth on the OL than we've had at any time in the past 15+ years. Even if all these guys suck, that's STILL a substantial and important improvement over where we've been. Pete's getting there - not as fast as I'd like but we're WAY better off than when he first arrived.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.
We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.
What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.
Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?
Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):
Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.
Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:
Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?
At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.
The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.
We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.
I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example). I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team. Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.
We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.
What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.
Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?
Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):
Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.
Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:
Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?
At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.
The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.
We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.
I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example). I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team. Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
I agree with DDY that true freshmen that aren't elite should not start on a good OL.
The Eldrenkamp point is a good one though. Everyone who doesn't start has been basically written off on this board as a player who sucks. As a R-So, Eldrenkamp couldn't beat out Tufunga, Criste, Tanigawa, and Atoe. Those were the interior OL on the 2014 team. Some guys will actually get better.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.
We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.
What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.
Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?
Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):
Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.
Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:
Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?
At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.
The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.
We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.
I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example). I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team. Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
Signing 1-2 high level 2018 guys that can come in and be likely starters as RS Frosh would be a huge improvement and calm a lot of the talk down. It's a "show me" for Strausser ... it's not his ability to develop ... it's his ability to recruit. We need more guys like Adams/McGary to play on the national level ... that's just being honest.
I like the guys in this class ... no problem there. I'm high on Wattenberg ... Roberts not quite as much given how buried on the depth chart he has been. I don't automatically assume that because somebody has been playing that that means that they are at the level that we really need to develop our OL to be at.
But the 2018 class now is CRITICAL ... it must be a good class because as you mentioned both Norgaard and Kirkland to various levels are developmental guys that are 2-3 years away from being reasonable contributors. The margin for error after missing on the high end guys in this class is getting tighter and tighter. We really needed 1-2 of our high end targets in this class because IF both Adams and McGary leave after next year we are in a world of trouble.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
I'm claiming free pub on this one. The esophagus is my wheelhouse.
Give Strausser 3-4 years with this tub of lard, and he'll turn him into a road-grading dirt DAWG!!!!1!!1.... Just like he did with Brostek, and Kirkland, and Turner, and James, and Sossebee.... oh, wait.
Brostek was the only one that had offers like Kirkland.
Petersen came to UW, saw the shit we had at OL and the fact all of those guys were seniors and gave out some offers to Sosobee and Turner. James was a Sark guy who actually started over McGary early last year. He's the one I think may turn out to be serviceable.
No.
Also - Kirkland is fucking rad. Apparently he had grade problems, but if you can't tell from his film that he's good then fuck off.
He's like 80% of Trey Adams, basically. However, he will redshirt and stay until he is a senior most likely. I wanted us to offer him last summer.
James committed along with the TE from Idaho before Petersen was hired. They both committed in the Summer of 2013. James committed on 7/30/13.
I like Kirkland too. I remember you wanting to offer him. Looks to be a powerful mauler.
I stand corrected you TBS'ing demon. No wonder he sucks. Sark picked him.
Also - can we have a rest of time ban on taking OLs from Loyola? Thx.
The last five OL commits average 6'6" 280. Per Fetters. Not bad?
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
The last five OL commits average 6'6" 280. Per Fetters. Not bad?
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
The Browning pick 6 was a bad breakdown. The guy McGary expected to block went out and covered Gaskin. The blitzer came unblocked. Harris also was blown up.
Saban had an interesting quote.. Paraphrasing, "Those guys have a formula that once you figure out, you are okay."
We got beat up front badly. Browning shit his pants. We were also outcoached.
The last five OL commits average 6'6" 280. Per Fetters. Not bad?
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
The Browning pick 6 was a bad breakdown. The guy McGary expected to block went out and covered Gaskin. The blitzer came unblocked. Harris also was blown up.
Saban had an interesting quote.. Paraphrasing, "Those guys have a formula that once you figure out, you are okay."
We got beat up front badly. Browning shit his pants. We were also outcoached.
The OL did what they could do - Harris was a massive liability which is the indictment on Strausser and his recruiting getting Harris playing
The blitz from Alabama was great but that is a throw Browning has to see right before he throws it
The outcoached thing is overblown in that game ... that game was decided by a handful of plays that all broke Alabama's way ... I think both coaches in general expected the game to play out roughly how it did
The last five OL commits average 6'6" 280. Per Fetters. Not bad?
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
The Browning pick 6 was a bad breakdown. The guy McGary expected to block went out and covered Gaskin. The blitzer came unblocked. Harris also was blown up.
Saban had an interesting quote.. Paraphrasing, "Those guys have a formula that once you figure out, you are okay."
We got beat up front badly. Browning shit his pants. We were also outcoached.
The OL did what they could do - Harris was a massive liability which is the indictment on Strausser and his recruiting getting Harris playing
The blitz from Alabama was great but that is a throw Browning has to see right before he throws it
The outcoached thing is overblown in that game ... that game was decided by a handful of plays that all broke Alabama's way ... I think both coaches in general expected the game to play out roughly how it did
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean know he's going to take a sack and not throw it? I think we all agree. Or, do you mean if McGary recognizes the zone blitz and picks up the inside rush Browning should recognize the dropping LB and move to his second read (which was open)?
I don't think UW was outcoached, just outplayed on offense. Sure it was a handful of plays, but Bama made them all especially on D because they outplayed UW. Fumble. Loose with the ball. I'd like to say Ross doesn't normally make that fumble, but he had in big games already. We were what we were in that game.
The last five OL commits average 6'6" 280. Per Fetters. Not bad?
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
The Browning pick 6 was a bad breakdown. The guy McGary expected to block went out and covered Gaskin. The blitzer came unblocked. Harris also was blown up.
Saban had an interesting quote.. Paraphrasing, "Those guys have a formula that once you figure out, you are okay."
We got beat up front badly. Browning shit his pants. We were also outcoached.
The OL did what they could do - Harris was a massive liability which is the indictment on Strausser and his recruiting getting Harris playing
The blitz from Alabama was great but that is a throw Browning has to see right before he throws it
The outcoached thing is overblown in that game ... that game was decided by a handful of plays that all broke Alabama's way ... I think both coaches in general expected the game to play out roughly how it did
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean know he's going to take a sack and not throw it? I think we all agree. Or, do you mean if McGary recognizes the zone blitz and picks up the inside rush Browning should recognize the dropping LB and move to his second read (which was open)?
I don't think UW was outcoached, just outplayed on offense. Sure it was a handful of plays, but Bama made them all especially on D because they outplayed UW. Fumble. Loose with the ball. I'd like to say Ross doesn't normally make that fumble, but he had in big games already. We were what we were in that game.
To your first point, Browning totally panicked on the play and made a throw that he didn't see the field well on. If his eyes were in the direction of the throw he should have seen the zone blitz and the pass being a no go. At that point, his choices are to either take a sack, throw the ball in the direction he threw it but into the ground where nobody could have gotten it, thrown it over his head out of bounds, or tried to buy an extra second to get to his next read. Even the best of OL's will have a break down from time to time where there will be a free rusher. The job of the QB on that play when that happens is to minimize the damage (largely avoid the turnover).
The play is a great example of how fine a line that game was ... if McGary does pick up the block then Browning would have had enough time to move through his progressions and likely get to the wide open read.
Think about the game this way, the deciding play was made at 10-7 late in the 2nd quarter ... if Browning just takes the sack there it's highly likely that you're looking at a 10-7 score at halftime. The defenses both played very well in the 3rd quarter so you likely get to the point where we were early in the 4th quarter where we punted Alabama down inside the 5 yard line. If we get the stop on 3rd and get the ball back around midfield, we're 2 first downs away from at minimum a game tying FG opportunity.
UW has some obvious areas where they need to get better to make that type of game more even (or even in their favor) versus what they ultimately played which was a very good game that highlighted their gaps at that level.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.
We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.
What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.
Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?
Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):
Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.
Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:
Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?
At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.
The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.
We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.
I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example). I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team. Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
I agree with DDY that true freshmen that aren't elite should not start on a good OL.
The Eldrenkamp point is a good one though. Everyone who doesn't start has been basically written off on this board as a player who sucks. As a R-So, Eldrenkamp couldn't beat out Tufunga, Criste, Tanigawa, and Atoe. Those were the interior OL on the 2014 team. Some guys will actually get better.
Eldrenkamp was never passed up by a true freshman when the OL coach challenged him to take the job (like what happened with our Gs last year). He was in line at LT behind Hatchie.
Eldrenkamp also had a lot of potential coming out of high school, so it wasn't a mystery how he became good.
I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.
James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.
There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.
Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.
I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.
The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.
I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.
I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.
But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.
We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.
Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.
Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.
Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.
We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.
What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.
Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?
Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):
Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.
Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:
Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?
At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.
The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.
We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.
I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example). I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team. Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
I hate to be that guy but most of what you're saying in this is wrong and stupid.
1. We aren't getting Jaramillo or any other top rated kid unless something very unexpected happens. Playing true frosh on the OL says you don't know what you're doing unless you are getting ELITE players.
2. Coleman Shelton, if you actually watch the games, is average.
3. Norgaard is a 3-star kid (so was Harris).
4. Using Nick Harris as an example of anything but a failure to develop players in front of him is FS.
5. USC's OL was better than ours and Utah's was just as good. We had tremendous play on the left side of our line and good play on the right side against mid and lower tier opponents.
6. Kirkland isn't a project you fuckhead, he had shit grades. He's a fucking rare beast that would've had a lot more offers if his core wasn't a 2.05 at the beginning of his senior season.
7. Eldrenkamp 2 years ago was a guy who had gotten good reviews his whole time, was developing and took a starting spot when it was his time.
8. Trey Adams was a 4-star you piece of monkey shit (also, probably should've been a 5-star).
Comments
Yes I'm concerned about the state of OL recruiting, but not overly so. LIPO. We've got more experienced upperclass depth on the OL than we've had at any time in the past 15+ years. Even if all these guys suck, that's STILL a substantial and important improvement over where we've been. Pete's getting there - not as fast as I'd like but we're WAY better off than when he first arrived.
I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.
Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team.
Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.
Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???
Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.
So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.
The Eldrenkamp point is a good one though. Everyone who doesn't start has been basically written off on this board as a player who sucks. As a R-So, Eldrenkamp couldn't beat out Tufunga, Criste, Tanigawa, and Atoe. Those were the interior OL on the 2014 team. Some guys will actually get better.
I like the guys in this class ... no problem there. I'm high on Wattenberg ... Roberts not quite as much given how buried on the depth chart he has been. I don't automatically assume that because somebody has been playing that that means that they are at the level that we really need to develop our OL to be at.
But the 2018 class now is CRITICAL ... it must be a good class because as you mentioned both Norgaard and Kirkland to various levels are developmental guys that are 2-3 years away from being reasonable contributors. The margin for error after missing on the high end guys in this class is getting tighter and tighter. We really needed 1-2 of our high end targets in this class because IF both Adams and McGary leave after next year we are in a world of trouble.
Also, Gregory actually knows how to recruit and build quality depth.... But really great argument in defense of your shitty point as always.
Quick question... Do you have to take Strausser's testicles out of your mouth before you post? Or can you do both? I'm hoping for abundance here.
Also - can we have a rest of time ban on taking OLs from Loyola? Thx.
Have you seen Burleson's hips? Exquisite.
DDY, way to own up that you were wrong. Refreshing on this bored.
Not certain any of you saw that insane breakdown of UW o-line against Bama's dline but apparently there was were some tremendous breakdowns in communication on the front simply due to lack of experience. We know Harris was dominated physically blah blah blah. The point being UW o-line received some tremendous tutoring from that experience.
I will try to find the link and post for those of enjoying the day in the basement.
Saban had an interesting quote.. Paraphrasing, "Those guys have a formula that once you figure out, you are okay."
We got beat up front badly. Browning shit his pants. We were also outcoached.
The blitz from Alabama was great but that is a throw Browning has to see right before he throws it
The outcoached thing is overblown in that game ... that game was decided by a handful of plays that all broke Alabama's way ... I think both coaches in general expected the game to play out roughly how it did
I don't think UW was outcoached, just outplayed on offense. Sure it was a handful of plays, but Bama made them all especially on D because they outplayed UW. Fumble. Loose with the ball. I'd like to say Ross doesn't normally make that fumble, but he had in big games already. We were what we were in that game.
The play is a great example of how fine a line that game was ... if McGary does pick up the block then Browning would have had enough time to move through his progressions and likely get to the wide open read.
Think about the game this way, the deciding play was made at 10-7 late in the 2nd quarter ... if Browning just takes the sack there it's highly likely that you're looking at a 10-7 score at halftime. The defenses both played very well in the 3rd quarter so you likely get to the point where we were early in the 4th quarter where we punted Alabama down inside the 5 yard line. If we get the stop on 3rd and get the ball back around midfield, we're 2 first downs away from at minimum a game tying FG opportunity.
UW has some obvious areas where they need to get better to make that type of game more even (or even in their favor) versus what they ultimately played which was a very good game that highlighted their gaps at that level.
Eldrenkamp also had a lot of potential coming out of high school, so it wasn't a mystery how he became good.
1. We aren't getting Jaramillo or any other top rated kid unless something very unexpected happens. Playing true frosh on the OL says you don't know what you're doing unless you are getting ELITE players.
2. Coleman Shelton, if you actually watch the games, is average.
3. Norgaard is a 3-star kid (so was Harris).
4. Using Nick Harris as an example of anything but a failure to develop players in front of him is FS.
5. USC's OL was better than ours and Utah's was just as good. We had tremendous play on the left side of our line and good play on the right side against mid and lower tier opponents.
6. Kirkland isn't a project you fuckhead, he had shit grades. He's a fucking rare beast that would've had a lot more offers if his core wasn't a 2.05 at the beginning of his senior season.
7. Eldrenkamp 2 years ago was a guy who had gotten good reviews his whole time, was developing and took a starting spot when it was his time.
8. Trey Adams was a 4-star you piece of monkey shit (also, probably should've been a 5-star).
You are a fucking moron.