I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Lebron is the only one who didn't need teammates until he did. The two titles he lost with Miami was because his team sucked. The two he won was because he carried them on his back the entire way (until he needed help in game 6 but all greats needed good teammates!).
Over the entire series Gasol shot 48% while Kobe shot 40%. Gasol also averaged 3.6 more rebounds per game and only 0.2 less assists per game. He had 2 less TO per game than Kobe. Kobe did average 10 more ppg but took 10 more shots per game.
For the entire series, Pau's +/- was 2 more than Kobe's. In game 7, Pau was +7 while Kobe was even. Pau was also +5 more than Kobe in game 6. So with the Lakers down 3-2 in the series, Pau was +6 per game better than Kobe those last 2 games including +7 in the pivotal game 7!
The other numbers are more startling. Kobe scored 4 more points that game but with 2 more Ft's and 8 more Fg's. Not only was his 6-24 near disastrous but he had 2 less assists than Pau and 3 more turnovers. Kobe's 15 rebounds were great, but 3 less than Gasol.
Kobe's a great player for sure but fans like yourself pump him up to an echelon he does not deserve to be in. After they lost Shaq they played 500 ball for 3 years and couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs. Pau shows up and they go to 3 Finals in a row. The numbers above are also quite clear. Yes, Pau did save Kobe's legacy and the Lakers have treated him like shit. Good night.
You have literally no idea how to use plus/minus numbers.
Re-reading this...I'm kind of a dick. Still right. Just kinda dicky. Like I could have easily made those points in a calm, rational manner. But I decided to use CAPS and be completely over the top. I think there's something wrong with me.
Over the entire series Gasol shot 48% while Kobe shot 40%. Gasol also averaged 3.6 more rebounds per game and only 0.2 less assists per game. He had 2 less TO per game than Kobe. Kobe did average 10 more ppg but took 10 more shots per game.
For the entire series, Pau's +/- was 2 more than Kobe's. In game 7, Pau was +7 while Kobe was even. Pau was also +5 more than Kobe in game 6. So with the Lakers down 3-2 in the series, Pau was +6 per game better than Kobe those last 2 games including +7 in the pivotal game 7!
The other numbers are more startling. Kobe scored 4 more points that game but with 2 more Ft's and 8 more Fg's. Not only was his 6-24 near disastrous but he had 2 less assists than Pau and 3 more turnovers. Kobe's 15 rebounds were great, but 3 less than Gasol.
Kobe's a great player for sure but fans like yourself pump him up to an echelon he does not deserve to be in. After they lost Shaq they played 500 ball for 3 years and couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs. Pau shows up and they go to 3 Finals in a row. The numbers above are also quite clear. Yes, Pau did save Kobe's legacy and the Lakers have treated him like shit. Good night.
You have literally no idea how to use plus/minus numbers.
Re-reading this...I'm kind of a dick. Still right. Just kinda dicky. Like I could have easily made those points in a calm, rational manner. But I decided to use CAPS and be completely over the top. I think there's something wrong with me.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
DNC, Marc Gasol hasn't been te difference for the Lakers the past 4 years. What year are they winning a championship with him?
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
DNC, Marc Gasol hasn't been te difference for the Lakers the past 4 years. What year are they winning a championship with him?
Upon further review, I'll probably agree with this. Assuming Kobe doesn't blow out his achilles in this alternate universe 2013 would have been real interesting, but otherwise you're probably right.
They'd be a hell of a contender this year with Marc though. But yeah, that trade worked out best for both teams.
The bigger poont that no great player wins a title without a strong #2 stands though.
Don't have a horse in this race(actually I do but I know if I comment I can spend all night on here) for what it's worth Marc Gasol has only had a better PER than his brother Pau in one season which was 2013.
I agree with Chest that Pau tended to be underappreciated by Lakers fans and was a lightning rod for when things went south.
This truly was your win-win for both franchises. I don't think the Lakers win with Marc due to the fact by the team he got good their franchise role guys broke down(Odom, Fisher) while Kobe was no longer the best player in the game.
While on Memphis Pau couldn't even win a single playoff game, they were in rebuild mode so he was being wasted. While with Marc he could grow with his team.
Don't have a horse in this race(actually I do but I know if I comment I can spend all night on here) for what it's worth Marc Gasol has only had a better PER than his brother Pau in one season which was 2013.
I agree with Chest that Pau tended to be underappreciated by Lakers fans and was a lightning rod for when things went south.
This truly was your win-win for both franchises. I don't think the Lakers win with Marc due to the fact by the team he got good their franchise role guys broke down(Odom, Fisher) while Kobe was no longer the best player in the game.
While on Memphis Pau couldn't even win a single playoff game, they were in rebuild mode so he was being wasted. While with Marc he could grow with his team.
True, but Hollinger himself will tell you that PER greatly underrates Marc's defensive superiority. Once you include defense he's been a significantly better player than Pau the last two seasons, and was better in 2011-2012 as well.
Good point about defense. I'd take Marc over Pau last three years myself.
Pau had a higher win shares, PER than Kobe in 2010 season and playoffs. Kobe stans tend to shit on Gasol, like Jordan Stan's with Pippen and Lebron Stan's with Bosh.
Good point about defense. I'd take Marc over Pau last three years myself.
Pau had a higher win shares, PER than Kobe in 2010 season and playoffs. Kobe stans tend to shit on Gasol, like Jordan Stan's with Pippen and Lebron Stan's with Bosh.
Bosh deserves it though. 0 points in game 7 two years ago.
Good point about defense. I'd take Marc over Pau last three years myself.
Pau had a higher win shares, PER than Kobe in 2010 season and playoffs. Kobe stans tend to shit on Gasol, like Jordan Stan's with Pippen and Lebron Stan's with Bosh.
Good point about defense. I'd take Marc over Pau last three years myself.
Pau had a higher win shares, PER than Kobe in 2010 season and playoffs. Kobe stans tend to shit on Gasol, like Jordan Stan's with Pippen and Lebron Stan's with Bosh.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
DNC, Marc Gasol hasn't been te difference for the Lakers the past 4 years. What year are they winning a championship with him?
Upon further review, I'll probably agree with this. Assuming Kobe doesn't blow out his achilles in this alternate universe 2013 would have been real interesting, but otherwise you're probably right.
They'd be a hell of a contender this year with Marc though. But yeah, that trade worked out best for both teams.
The bigger poont that no great player wins a title without a strong #2 stands though.
Who was Dirk's strong number 2 when they beat the Heat? Tyson Chandler? He was important, but no secondary star. Jet? Um, no. Kidd was over the hill by then. Maybe the Magic Mavs were just an oddity and Dirk played one of the most amazing Finals ever? Need people who know basketball to weigh in...
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
DNC, Marc Gasol hasn't been te difference for the Lakers the past 4 years. What year are they winning a championship with him?
Upon further review, I'll probably agree with this. Assuming Kobe doesn't blow out his achilles in this alternate universe 2013 would have been real interesting, but otherwise you're probably right.
They'd be a hell of a contender this year with Marc though. But yeah, that trade worked out best for both teams.
The bigger poont that no great player wins a title without a strong #2 stands though.
Who was Dirk's strong number 2 when they beat the Heat? Tyson Chandler? He was important, but no secondary star. Jet? Um, no. Kidd was over the hill by then. Maybe the Magic Mavs were just an oddity and Dirk played one of the most amazing Finals ever? Need people who know basketball to weigh in...
Great example with #YourMavs. Can't really argue. Definitely seems to be an outlier though. Duncan has Parker/Ginobili, LeBron had Wade/Bosh, etc.
The one real run I'm not sure of was the Bad Boys dynasty. Obviously IT1.0 was great, just not sure if anybody else on that team was that good. Was Dumars? I guess they had Rodman but not sure if I'd count him in that category, though he's certainly HOF worthy. Interesting team.
I think Kobe is great, but Chest makes some good points. He's absolutely right that Gasol saved Kobe's legacy. The two championships obviously would never have happened without Gasol. They needed a second star and luckily, they were gifted Gasol. The trade turned out to be a good one for both sides because Marc Gasol has been very good for Memphis, but at the time it was a wtf deal. Popovich even complained to the NBA about the legitimacy of the deal because Memphis received so little for Gasol.
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
The problem with the "Pau saved Kobe" argument is it assumes Mark wouldn't have become a great player in LA. LA doesn't win those two titles without Pau, but they could have easily won at least that many since then, and be a real contender for this year's if they had Mark.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
Not buying it with Marc. Good player, but until this year it was probably a stretch to say he's better than Pau. Bynum was probably better 3 years ago as well until his knees shit out. He was getting 18 and 12 in 11-12. They also had Dwight Howard for a year. Marc doesn't fit a well with Bynum/Howard as Pau.
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
Mark has been better than Pau for three years, at least. He was significantly better the last two years. If you really don't think Mark passed Pau as best Gasol until this year you haven't been paying attention. Jake Almighty, Mark had Pau 11.5 win shares to 3.5 in 2012-13. They weren't even comparable players.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
DNC, Marc Gasol hasn't been te difference for the Lakers the past 4 years. What year are they winning a championship with him?
Upon further review, I'll probably agree with this. Assuming Kobe doesn't blow out his achilles in this alternate universe 2013 would have been real interesting, but otherwise you're probably right.
They'd be a hell of a contender this year with Marc though. But yeah, that trade worked out best for both teams.
The bigger poont that no great player wins a title without a strong #2 stands though.
Who was Dirk's strong number 2 when they beat the Heat? Tyson Chandler? He was important, but no secondary star. Jet? Um, no. Kidd was over the hill by then. Maybe the Magic Mavs were just an oddity and Dirk played one of the most amazing Finals ever? Need people who know basketball to weigh in...
Great example with #YourMavs. Can't really argue. Definitely seems to be an outlier though. Duncan has Parker/Ginobili, LeBron had Wade/Bosh, etc.
The one real run I'm not sure of was the Bad Boys dynasty. Obviously IT1.0 was great, just not sure if anybody else on that team was that good. Was Dumars? I guess they had Rodman but not sure if I'd count him in that category, though he's certainly HOF worthy. Interesting team.
Was a huge outlier, which is why it has always amazed me that they won. Shaq/Kobe. Duncan/Manu. Jordan/Pippen. Lebron/Wade. Seems as if there is always a star 1 & 2 needed to win. Mavs were different.
Comments
Kobe had even demanded a trade in the season leading up to the Lakers getting Gasol at the deadline. He had ceased off those demands once the Lakers started out well. They were already starting to improve internally, with Bynum progressing rapidly, and Derek Fisher back instead of Smush Parker at PG. They weren't winning the West without Gasol though. Who knows what the situation would have been if the Lakers got bounced early that season.
Gasol gets shit because he's a European, finesse big guy. It's hard to say he's soft when he averaged over 10 rebounds, but he does sometimes get pushed around. He also flops and whines a lot on the court. He's not the toughest player around. Pau is a stereotypical, European big man, albeit a very good one. It's funny because brother isn't as long, athletic, or skilled (he's skilled, but not at Pau's level), but he's a banger and would never be called soft.
It also acts like every great player didn't need great teammates. MJ needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, etc. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade too, btw.
Yes, Kobe needed another very good player on his team, but I'd argue Pau was inferior to any of those other "Robins".
There are too man variables to really know, but I don't see how they would have won multiple titles with Marc. He wasn't the difference maker for a title the past 4 years.
And Mark fits fine with a post up big. He plays the high post for Memphis with Z Bo on the low block.
#GrizzliesSuperiorityGuy
They'd be a hell of a contender this year with Marc though. But yeah, that trade worked out best for both teams.
The bigger poont that no great player wins a title without a strong #2 stands though.
I agree with Chest that Pau tended to be underappreciated by Lakers fans and was a lightning rod for when things went south.
This truly was your win-win for both franchises. I don't think the Lakers win with Marc due to the fact by the team he got good their franchise role guys broke down(Odom, Fisher) while Kobe was no longer the best player in the game.
While on Memphis Pau couldn't even win a single playoff game, they were in rebuild mode so he was being wasted. While with Marc he could grow with his team.
Pau had a higher win shares, PER than Kobe in 2010 season and playoffs. Kobe stans tend to shit on Gasol, like Jordan Stan's with Pippen and Lebron Stan's with Bosh.
The one real run I'm not sure of was the Bad Boys dynasty. Obviously IT1.0 was great, just not sure if anybody else on that team was that good. Was Dumars? I guess they had Rodman but not sure if I'd count him in that category, though he's certainly HOF worthy. Interesting team.
I don't know enough about the Pistons to comment.