I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It's telling that you think the history of the conflict begins in February 2022. Like how DuckFan that thinks the history of college football started in 1994.
You don't know why it's telling because establishment media wont tell you.
You assume a lot and say very little. This shitshow had been brewing for quite a while. Obama was pathetic in 2014 and is the biggest catalyst to today's events.
Stop making excuses for Russia. They escalated things dramatically with a full scale invasion that for the most part has been a catastrophe
Your unintelligible reference to Obama notwithstanding, are you aware Zelenski more than doubled the shelling of the Donbas in the months leading up to Russia's invasion?
What would cause Zelenski to want to shell the Donbass in the first place?
How long has this shelling been going on for? Again to what aim?
A bit of intellectual curiosity would go a long way.
What the fuck are you talking about? Unintelligible? Obama didnt even give Russia a slap on the wrist for annexing territory from a neighbor in 2014 when Russian launched the phony DPR, LPR, and took over Crimea. We didnt even so much as sanction Russia.
Russia gambled and thought Urkaine was a pushover and the rest of the world didnt care. It turned out they were very wrong.
The Donbas has been hot and cold since 2014 with shelling back and forth. Russia was shelling them more than Ukraine was, and doing it under the guise of the DPR and LPR
Obama authorized the US backed coup of UKR in 2014.
In response, Russia took Crimea because they weren't going to allow the West to control the largest Naval base on the Black Sea. Full stop.
Obama didn't do shit with regard to Crimea because he knew that would start a hot war overnight.
The West has been playing the incremental game. They thought they could get away with it despite Putin declaring a red-line in the early 2000s with regards to NATO membership for UKR.
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
Zelinski has been shelling the Donbas because those regions rejected the new government brought about by coup de ta. And they doubled their bombardment in the months leading up to illicit the exact response they got from Russia - an invasion.
I expect nothing less than a response extoling my alleged ignorance. I suggest you search past your "Putin is literally Hitler" blinders provided by the West's media apparatchik.
I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It's telling that you think the history of the conflict begins in February 2022. Like how DuckFan that thinks the history of college football started in 1994.
You don't know why it's telling because establishment media wont tell you.
You assume a lot and say very little. This shitshow had been brewing for quite a while. Obama was pathetic in 2014 and is the biggest catalyst to today's events.
Stop making excuses for Russia. They escalated things dramatically with a full scale invasion that for the most part has been a catastrophe
Your unintelligible reference to Obama notwithstanding, are you aware Zelenski more than doubled the shelling of the Donbas in the months leading up to Russia's invasion?
What would cause Zelenski to want to shell the Donbass in the first place?
How long has this shelling been going on for? Again to what aim?
A bit of intellectual curiosity would go a long way.
What the fuck are you talking about? Unintelligible? Obama didnt even give Russia a slap on the wrist for annexing territory from a neighbor in 2014 when Russian launched the phony DPR, LPR, and took over Crimea. We didnt even so much as sanction Russia.
Russia gambled and thought Urkaine was a pushover and the rest of the world didnt care. It turned out they were very wrong.
The Donbas has been hot and cold since 2014 with shelling back and forth. Russia was shelling them more than Ukraine was, and doing it under the guise of the DPR and LPR
Obama authorized the US backed coup of UKR in 2014.
In response, Russia took Crimea because they weren't going to allow the West to control the largest Naval base on the Black Sea. Full stop.
Obama didn't do shit with regard to Crimea because he knew that would start a hot war overnight.
The West has been playing the incremental game. They thought they could get away with it despite Putin declaring a red-line in the early 2000s with regards to NATO membership for UKR.
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
Zelinski has been shelling the Donbas because those regions rejected the new government brought about by coup de ta. And they doubled their bombardment in the months leading up to illicit the exact response they got from Russia - an invasion.
I expect nothing less than a response extoling my alleged ignorance. I suggest you search past your "Putin is literally Hitler" blinders provided by the West's media apparatchik.
So the West couped a Russian coup? That place has been coup city for its entire history.
It seems pretty clear where the average Ukrainian stands, given the fact they are fighting a terrifying Russian military machine that has the world worried for 100 years. Are these Ukrainians just US robots programmed to fight for their country?
This is the convenient part of your narrative that you completely ignore. Ukraine is not the US and these are not US soldiers.
I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It's telling that you think the history of the conflict begins in February 2022. Like how DuckFan that thinks the history of college football started in 1994.
You don't know why it's telling because establishment media wont tell you.
You assume a lot and say very little. This shitshow had been brewing for quite a while. Obama was pathetic in 2014 and is the biggest catalyst to today's events.
Stop making excuses for Russia. They escalated things dramatically with a full scale invasion that for the most part has been a catastrophe
Your unintelligible reference to Obama notwithstanding, are you aware Zelenski more than doubled the shelling of the Donbas in the months leading up to Russia's invasion?
What would cause Zelenski to want to shell the Donbass in the first place?
How long has this shelling been going on for? Again to what aim?
A bit of intellectual curiosity would go a long way.
What the fuck are you talking about? Unintelligible? Obama didnt even give Russia a slap on the wrist for annexing territory from a neighbor in 2014 when Russian launched the phony DPR, LPR, and took over Crimea. We didnt even so much as sanction Russia.
Russia gambled and thought Urkaine was a pushover and the rest of the world didnt care. It turned out they were very wrong.
The Donbas has been hot and cold since 2014 with shelling back and forth. Russia was shelling them more than Ukraine was, and doing it under the guise of the DPR and LPR
Obama authorized the US backed coup of UKR in 2014.
In response, Russia took Crimea because they weren't going to allow the West to control the largest Naval base on the Black Sea. Full stop.
Obama didn't do shit with regard to Crimea because he knew that would start a hot war overnight.
The West has been playing the incremental game. They thought they could get away with it despite Putin declaring a red-line in the early 2000s with regards to NATO membership for UKR.
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
Zelinski has been shelling the Donbas because those regions rejected the new government brought about by coup de ta. And they doubled their bombardment in the months leading up to illicit the exact response they got from Russia - an invasion.
I expect nothing less than a response extoling my alleged ignorance. I suggest you search past your "Putin is literally Hitler" blinders provided by the West's media apparatchik.
So the West couped a Russian coup? That place has been coup city for its entire history.
It seems pretty clear where the average Ukrainian stands, given the fact they are fighting a terrifying Russian military machine that has the world worried for 100 years. Are these Ukrainians just US robots programmed to fight for their country?
This is the convenient part of your narrative that you completely ignore. Ukraine is not the US and these are not US soldiers.
Learn about them. Read their stories.
I'm glad you've finally acknowledged the fallacy of participating in any territory dubbed "coup city".
The Ukrainians aren't robots, they are cannon fodder. It's despicable. Anybody's guess how the US got UKR to go along with that plan. For a place known for it's corruption, it probably involved a lot of money and (now worthless) security guarantees.
When Russia does their calculus on the war, what the fuck does it matter WHO is doing the fighting when WE are paying for it?
When a husband if found to have hired a hitman to kill his wife, they also charge the husband with murder. He doesn't get a pass because he only paid for it. That fucking retarded.
Then Ukraine doesn’t need any of the good stuff cause they’re kicking ass, right?
Maybe we still have a few Sherman’s sitting around they can use to kick ass.
$500M more today. Joey giving aid to the people of Ukraine to ease their suffering. Much better than calling for peace so Putin can save face.
JFC.
Ukraine hasn't gotten any of the good stuff. They are defending their civilians from massacres like Bucha with a hodgepodge of old Western and Soviet gear
They want the good stuff. That’s the point. They wanted Jets today. Why? They’re kicking ass without them. Ask yourself why Joey won’t give them and stopped Poland from doing the same?
It’s a game buddy. Joey don’t give a shit about dead Ukrainian children just like he didn’t give a shit about dead Afghan children. Stop drinking the “saving democracy” kool-aid. It’s for suckers.
No democracy in Ukraine. Rigged elections just like here. Zelinski outlaws opposing political parties. Sounds vaguely familiar. Who's take Hitler or Zelinski?
I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It has everything to do with Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Russia.
Afghanistan was 100% justified, as was supplying and providing advise in Syria and Ukraine.
Vietnam and Iraq were mistakes IMO, but Iraq might actually be a functioning country someday which is Chinteresting. Still doesnt justify the military industrial Cheney clusterfuck that is was.
Libya and Yemen, who cares. Small potatoes.
Stop painting with a broad brush and get some perspective. Not every war is the same.
Whatever they tell you about a war on the news and the NYT and basically everyone else is propaganda. Sad you haven’t realized that yet. I’m not pretending to know what is going on on the ground and back room diplomacy unlike you. Just easy to spot the bullshit.
I dont know shit about fuck. But I know enough to see that Putin and Russia are evil, wannabe imperialists that bit off FAR more than they can chew.
They showed their hand, and it was closer to a 2 7 off suit than it was a pair of aces.
This is clear to most.
This is what history will say about the US and UKR after the petrodollar falls.
Since you like poker analogies, the West is severely overplaying their hand. There won't even be a Pyrrhic victory for the West when this is over.
I suggest you look up the BRICS and their plans.
Our imperialist machinations drove the BRICS into each other's arms.
Make no mistake, I don't want to be right.
Name the solvent BRIC country that's going to be the reserve currency for the others. I'll wait.
I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It has everything to do with Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Russia.
Afghanistan was 100% justified, as was supplying and providing advise in Syria and Ukraine.
Vietnam and Iraq were mistakes IMO, but Iraq might actually be a functioning country someday which is Chinteresting. Still doesnt justify the military industrial Cheney clusterfuck that is was.
Libya and Yemen, who cares. Small potatoes.
Stop painting with a broad brush and get some perspective. Not every war is the same.
Whatever they tell you about a war on the news and the NYT and basically everyone else is propaganda. Sad you haven’t realized that yet. I’m not pretending to know what is going on on the ground and back room diplomacy unlike you. Just easy to spot the bullshit.
I dont know shit about fuck. But I know enough to see that Putin and Russia are evil, wannabe imperialists that bit off FAR more than they can chew.
They showed their hand, and it was closer to a 2 7 off suit than it was a pair of aces.
This is clear to most.
This is what history will say about the US and UKR after the petrodollar falls.
Since you like poker analogies, the West is severely overplaying their hand. There won't even be a Pyrrhic victory for the West when this is over.
I suggest you look up the BRICS and their plans.
Our imperialist machinations drove the BRICS into each other's arms.
Make no mistake, I don't want to be right.
Name the solvent BRIC country that's going to be the reserve currency for the others. I'll wait.
I don't really give a shit about the corrupt Ukrainian government. I do feel bad for Ukrainians. That said it's their fight. I see no reason to not sell them the guns to do it though(even at a discount). A reduced Russia is good for us and everyone except Putin.
I'd be happy sending weapons to Taiwan to kill the Chinese as well.
It's weird how divisive that is for some of you.
It's a lot more than selling some guns
Its weird to minimize that
It's weird to lump pension checks in with defense weapons I agree.
So why do so many here keep doing that same thing.
No way in fuck do I think Ukraine should get blank checks or even f-15's let alone actual new tech like f-35(which is still old enough we sell it globally btw).
Some of the retards here still seem to think the M1 that served in the first Iraq war is new tech just because it's still in service. The B52 stratofortress is still in service too.
Russia has been supplying our active enemies for 20+ years. Payback is a bitch and there's literally nothing they can do about it.
It's lumped in because you want to minimize what's really happening
This has nothing to do with Russia. Hell they're making money too like the Biden's and Cocaine Mitch
What do you people not get. This has EVERYTHING to do with Russia. Russia is the country that started a fucking land war in Europe. Christ on a stick. Russia invaded Ukraine!
It has everything to do with Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Russia.
Afghanistan was 100% justified, as was supplying and providing advise in Syria and Ukraine.
Vietnam and Iraq were mistakes IMO, but Iraq might actually be a functioning country someday which is Chinteresting. Still doesnt justify the military industrial Cheney clusterfuck that is was.
Libya and Yemen, who cares. Small potatoes.
Stop painting with a broad brush and get some perspective. Not every war is the same.
Whatever they tell you about a war on the news and the NYT and basically everyone else is propaganda. Sad you haven’t realized that yet. I’m not pretending to know what is going on on the ground and back room diplomacy unlike you. Just easy to spot the bullshit.
I dont know shit about fuck. But I know enough to see that Putin and Russia are evil, wannabe imperialists that bit off FAR more than they can chew.
They showed their hand, and it was closer to a 2 7 off suit than it was a pair of aces.
This is clear to most.
This is what history will say about the US and UKR after the petrodollar falls.
Since you like poker analogies, the West is severely overplaying their hand. There won't even be a Pyrrhic victory for the West when this is over.
I suggest you look up the BRICS and their plans.
Our imperialist machinations drove the BRICS into each other's arms.
Make no mistake, I don't want to be right.
Name the solvent BRIC country that's going to be the reserve currency for the others. I'll wait.
Lol, let's play a hypothetical, even IF the petrodollar were to be replaced, what % of international capital transactions do you think that's a percentage of?
And no, the Saudis ain't taking shit for stain currencies so again, which BRIC is going to be the reserve? because the Saudis are selling not buying.
@pawz I like you but you are way off base on this one.
You all better get your boy under control. Zelensky also called for first use of nukes. My hero!!!!
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned China in a newspaper interview on Monday against supporting Russia in its war on Ukraine and said doing so would bring on a world war.
Zelenskyy's comments came as China said that the United States was in no position to make demands, after the top U.S. diplomat warned his Chinese counterpart at the weekend against China providing weapons to Russia in its war in Ukraine.
"For us, it is important that China does not support the Russian Federation in this war," Zelenskyy told German daily Die Welt. "In fact, I would like it to be on our side. At the moment, however, I don't think it's possible."
"But I do see an opportunity for China to make a pragmatic assessment of what is happening here," he added. "Because if China allies itself with Russia, there will be a world war, and I do think that China is aware of that."
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Saturday warned top Chinese diplomat Wang Yi of consequences should China provide material support to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, saying in an interview after the two met that Washington was concerned Beijing was considering supplying weapons to Moscow.
This got buried in @PostGameOrangeSlices blue and gold boner. But it is the crux of why Putin is such a 'mad man'.
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
It's goddamned naive to think the US isn't an imperialist nation. We just have been conditioned to think the US military is the world's policemen saving democracy.
How's that worked out in the Middle East, Vietnam and Afghanistan?
It's comical to see the chickenhawks claiming Putin will continue to march through Eastern Europe if not stopped in Ukraine. That's 1960's Domino Theory.
My issue with this is what if Putin decides we went to far and attacks poland... then what. Poking the bear never works well. And i don't trust Biden to not fuck it up.
I'm on the fence on this one. It's a lot of fucking money, but normally, if the weaponry leads to a complete crumbling of the Russian economy and government, and strikes absolute fear to China, I'm all for it. Fuck those guys.
Unfortunately, the execution afterwards will probably be a shit show, and Russia will be more likely to get Hitler 2.0 to replace Putin than a future leader of democracy. Or worse yet, the country becomes a defacto puppet country of China. So, I'm reserved to the fact that all this money is probably going to leave Europe worse off in 10 years than better.
I tend to agree with @UW_Doog_Bot that whatever the outcome of this fucktarded war, it won't be the immediate end of Putin. Howsoever, this is bleeding Russia of manpower and resources, and maybe/probably political capital, that were pretty shitty to begin with, and Russia is at its most grievous disadvantage with the West in terms of replacement capability. Supposing this fracas accelerates a Russian collapse by some number of years, @greenblood makes an excellent poont: Are weº prepared for that? A belligerent, dictatorial but somewhat cohesive State on Western borders is one thing. A collapsed state is whole other set of problems.
We fucked up on security guarantees to Ukraine with nuke divestment, and we fucked up with NATO expansion, imo.
Ukraine and Russia have been fighting an information war from the jump, which I do not begrudge Ukraine for as they are fighting for survival and self-determination. Doesn't mean weº have to believe every or anything either side puts out.
As I recall, Gulf War I had geopolitical ripples outward to Soviet-aligned and equipped countries as they witnessed how easily Western military power, a literal half-world away, shredded the Soviet hardware Iraq fielded, even handicapping for the fucktardation of the Iraqis.
I'm on the fence on this one. It's a lot of fucking money, but normally, if the weaponry leads to a complete crumbling of the Russian economy and government, and strikes absolute fear to China, I'm all for it. Fuck those guys.
Unfortunately, the execution afterwards will probably be a shit show, and Russia will be more likely to get Hitler 2.0 to replace Putin than a future leader of democracy. Or worse yet, the country becomes a defacto puppet country of China. So, I'm reserved to the fact that all this money is probably going to leave Europe worse off in 10 years than better.
I tend to agree with @UW_Doog_Bot that whatever the outcome of this fucktarded war, it won't be the immediate end of Putin. Howsoever, this is bleeding Russia of manpower and resources, and maybe/probably political capital, that were pretty shitty to begin with, and Russia is at its most grievous disadvantage with the West in terms of replacement capability. Supposing this fracas accelerates a Russian collapse by some number of years, @greenblood makes an excellent poont: Are weº prepared for that? A belligerent, dictatorial but somewhat cohesive State on Western borders is one thing. A collapsed state is whole other set of problems.
We fucked up on security guarantees to Ukraine with nuke divestment, and we fucked up with NATO expansion, imo.
Ukraine and Russia have been fighting an information war from the jump, which I do not begrudge Ukraine for as they are fighting for survival and self-determination. Doesn't mean weº have to believe every or anything either side puts out.
As I recall, Gulf War I had geopolitical ripples outward to Soviet-aligned and equipped countries as they witnessed how easily Western military power, a literal half-world away, shredded the Soviet hardware Iraq fielded, even handicapping for the fucktardation of the Iraqis.
Fuck it, I put way too much thought into this.
We should be pushing to a negotiated peace, not supplying more and more weapons and cash to string it out.
I'm on the fence on this one. It's a lot of fucking money, but normally, if the weaponry leads to a complete crumbling of the Russian economy and government, and strikes absolute fear to China, I'm all for it. Fuck those guys.
Unfortunately, the execution afterwards will probably be a shit show, and Russia will be more likely to get Hitler 2.0 to replace Putin than a future leader of democracy. Or worse yet, the country becomes a defacto puppet country of China. So, I'm reserved to the fact that all this money is probably going to leave Europe worse off in 10 years than better.
I tend to agree with @UW_Doog_Bot that whatever the outcome of this fucktarded war, it won't be the immediate end of Putin. Howsoever, this is bleeding Russia of manpower and resources, and maybe/probably political capital, that were pretty shitty to begin with, and Russia is at its most grievous disadvantage with the West in terms of replacement capability. Supposing this fracas accelerates a Russian collapse by some number of years, @greenblood makes an excellent poont: Are weº prepared for that? A belligerent, dictatorial but somewhat cohesive State on Western borders is one thing. A collapsed state is whole other set of problems.
We fucked up on security guarantees to Ukraine with nuke divestment, and we fucked up with NATO expansion, imo.
Ukraine and Russia have been fighting an information war from the jump, which I do not begrudge Ukraine for as they are fighting for survival and self-determination. Doesn't mean weº have to believe every or anything either side puts out.
As I recall, Gulf War I had geopolitical ripples outward to Soviet-aligned and equipped countries as they witnessed how easily Western military power, a literal half-world away, shredded the Soviet hardware Iraq fielded, even handicapping for the fucktardation of the Iraqis.
Fuck it, I put way too much thought into this.
We should be pushing to a negotiated peace, not supplying more and more weapons and cash to string it out.
There's no 10% off the top for the Big Guy in a negotiated peace.
I'm on the fence on this one. It's a lot of fucking money, but normally, if the weaponry leads to a complete crumbling of the Russian economy and government, and strikes absolute fear to China, I'm all for it. Fuck those guys.
Unfortunately, the execution afterwards will probably be a shit show, and Russia will be more likely to get Hitler 2.0 to replace Putin than a future leader of democracy. Or worse yet, the country becomes a defacto puppet country of China. So, I'm reserved to the fact that all this money is probably going to leave Europe worse off in 10 years than better.
I tend to agree with @UW_Doog_Bot that whatever the outcome of this fucktarded war, it won't be the immediate end of Putin. Howsoever, this is bleeding Russia of manpower and resources, and maybe/probably political capital, that were pretty shitty to begin with, and Russia is at its most grievous disadvantage with the West in terms of replacement capability. Supposing this fracas accelerates a Russian collapse by some number of years, @greenblood makes an excellent poont: Are weº prepared for that? A belligerent, dictatorial but somewhat cohesive State on Western borders is one thing. A collapsed state is whole other set of problems.
We fucked up on security guarantees to Ukraine with nuke divestment, and we fucked up with NATO expansion, imo.
Ukraine and Russia have been fighting an information war from the jump, which I do not begrudge Ukraine for as they are fighting for survival and self-determination. Doesn't mean weº have to believe every or anything either side puts out.
As I recall, Gulf War I had geopolitical ripples outward to Soviet-aligned and equipped countries as they witnessed how easily Western military power, a literal half-world away, shredded the Soviet hardware Iraq fielded, even handicapping for the fucktardation of the Iraqis.
Fuck it, I put way too much thought into this.
We should be pushing to a negotiated peace, not supplying more and more weapons and cash to string it out.
There's no 10% off the top for the Big Guy in a negotiated peace.
Once the bombs stop, there’s gonna a shit ton of construction projects financed by the US government to get 10% of.
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In response, Russia took Crimea because they weren't going to allow the West to control the largest Naval base on the Black Sea. Full stop.
Obama didn't do shit with regard to Crimea because he knew that would start a hot war overnight.
The West has been playing the incremental game. They thought they could get away with it despite Putin declaring a red-line in the early 2000s with regards to NATO membership for UKR.
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
Zelinski has been shelling the Donbas because those regions rejected the new government brought about by coup de ta. And they doubled their bombardment in the months leading up to illicit the exact response they got from Russia - an invasion.
I expect nothing less than a response extoling my alleged ignorance. I suggest you search past your "Putin is literally Hitler" blinders provided by the West's media apparatchik.
It seems pretty clear where the average Ukrainian stands, given the fact they are fighting a terrifying Russian military machine that has the world worried for 100 years. Are these Ukrainians just US robots programmed to fight for their country?
This is the convenient part of your narrative that you completely ignore. Ukraine is not the US and these are not US soldiers.
Learn about them. Read their stories.
I'm glad you've finally acknowledged the fallacy of participating in any territory dubbed "coup city".
The Ukrainians aren't robots, they are cannon fodder. It's despicable. Anybody's guess how the US got UKR to go along with that plan. For a place known for it's corruption, it probably involved a lot of money and (now worthless) security guarantees.
When Russia does their calculus on the war, what the fuck does it matter WHO is doing the fighting when WE are paying for it?
When a husband if found to have hired a hitman to kill his wife, they also charge the husband with murder. He doesn't get a pass because he only paid for it. That fucking retarded.
Ukraine in one tweet!
It’s a game buddy. Joey don’t give a shit about dead Ukrainian children just like he didn’t give a shit about dead Afghan children. Stop drinking the “saving democracy” kool-aid. It’s for suckers.
Who has the most energy to sell? Take your pick.
And no, the Saudis ain't taking shit for stain currencies so again, which BRIC is going to be the reserve? because the Saudis are selling not buying.
@pawz I like you but you are way off base on this one.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned China in a newspaper interview on Monday against supporting Russia in its war on Ukraine and said doing so would bring on a world war.
Zelenskyy's comments came as China said that the United States was in no position to make demands, after the top U.S. diplomat warned his Chinese counterpart at the weekend against China providing weapons to Russia in its war in Ukraine.
"For us, it is important that China does not support the Russian Federation in this war," Zelenskyy told German daily Die Welt. "In fact, I would like it to be on our side. At the moment, however, I don't think it's possible."
"But I do see an opportunity for China to make a pragmatic assessment of what is happening here," he added. "Because if China allies itself with Russia, there will be a world war, and I do think that China is aware of that."
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Saturday warned top Chinese diplomat Wang Yi of consequences should China provide material support to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, saying in an interview after the two met that Washington was concerned Beijing was considering supplying weapons to Moscow.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Co7EoeyjNPO/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Why am I so skeptical?
And CASES!!!
The arrogance of the West was to continue to expand NATO east despite the red-line protestations of Russia.
If Russia or China joined in a military pact with Mexico, and just needed a little more time to get their bases in there, America rightfully would put an end to that right quick. You disavow Russia employing this same logic because it doesn't fit the imperialist mores of the West.
It's goddamned naive to think the US isn't an imperialist nation. We just have been conditioned to think the US military is the world's policemen saving democracy.
How's that worked out in the Middle East, Vietnam and Afghanistan?
It's comical to see the chickenhawks claiming Putin will continue to march through Eastern Europe if not stopped in Ukraine. That's 1960's Domino Theory.
We fucked up on security guarantees to Ukraine with nuke divestment, and we fucked up with NATO expansion, imo.
Ukraine and Russia have been fighting an information war from the jump, which I do not begrudge Ukraine for as they are fighting for survival and self-determination. Doesn't mean weº have to believe every or anything either side puts out.
As I recall, Gulf War I had geopolitical ripples outward to Soviet-aligned and equipped countries as they witnessed how easily Western military power, a literal half-world away, shredded the Soviet hardware Iraq fielded, even handicapping for the fucktardation of the Iraqis.
Fuck it, I put way too much thought into this.