If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
How much will that cost the average household? There are approximately 131.2 million households in the United States. So the average cost per household is $113 billion divided by 131.2 million, which is $861.
Real money to most American households.
Counting sunk cost as new expenditures.
If the US ships 1 billion worth of hardware that was paid for in 2005 and had a planned decommission in 2025 that would cost 200 million how much did it cost?
Better to give Ukraine old shit than the Taliban
Rather easily
Patriot missile batteries and current Abrams tanks are not old equipment. You probably cheered arming the Taliban too.
Patriot is 1984.
Abrams is 1980.
Both have newer replacement systems already.
Patriot probably has some relevance moving forward even with a neutered Russia. Parking 8 or so on Taiwan comes to mind.
Abrams was specifically designed to eat commie tanks. Not going to be a huge need for loads of them if all those commie tanks are burning hulks in Ukraine. Tanks aren't great for naval Island hopping in the Pacific.
"What is the US most advanced air defense system? Patriot missile system. The Patriot is the U.S. military's most advanced air defense system, with a range of roughly 20 to 100 miles, depending on the threat. It was designed as an antiaircraft system, but newer variants of Patriot can also engage ballistic and cruise missiles and drones.May 19, 2023"
They are building Ukraines M1's as we type.
That's not old shit.
We are critically short of even 155mm Howitzer ammunition! SloJoe said so on air and revealed top secret information. He's not in jail though.
Yeah because 155m Howitzer ammo is going to save us from Chy-na
Christ
Production ramped up to replace the shells anyways.
If the US gets in some archaic artillery war it's fucking toast. So much would've had to go wrong it's not even funny
The Air Force alone would wipe the floor with chy-na
We have exactly one factory to make those shells. This isn't the 1940's. Odd they need all that artillery in Ukraine isn't it. Are you really this clueless. We use arty like water! You have no actual facts for youer arguments. Ukraine is a corrupt hell hole. I do not care what happens to it. Zelenski is a billionaire from our tax dollars. he doesn't give a shit to buy weapons and enriches himself. Until he's gone nothing will change.
Yeah, I can't imagine why Ukraine would need a bunch of 155m Howitzer ammo and the US wouldn't. No fucking clue.
HIMARS are old as hell and even they make Howitzer artillery look stone age.
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
How much will that cost the average household? There are approximately 131.2 million households in the United States. So the average cost per household is $113 billion divided by 131.2 million, which is $861.
Real money to most American households.
Counting sunk cost as new expenditures.
If the US ships 1 billion worth of hardware that was paid for in 2005 and had a planned decommission in 2025 that would cost 200 million how much did it cost?
Better to give Ukraine old shit than the Taliban
Rather easily
Patriot missile batteries and current Abrams tanks are not old equipment. You probably cheered arming the Taliban too.
Patriot is 1984.
Abrams is 1980.
Both have newer replacement systems already.
Patriot probably has some relevance moving forward even with a neutered Russia. Parking 8 or so on Taiwan comes to mind.
Abrams was specifically designed to eat commie tanks. Not going to be a huge need for loads of them if all those commie tanks are burning hulks in Ukraine. Tanks aren't great for naval Island hopping in the Pacific.
"What is the US most advanced air defense system? Patriot missile system. The Patriot is the U.S. military's most advanced air defense system, with a range of roughly 20 to 100 miles, depending on the threat. It was designed as an antiaircraft system, but newer variants of Patriot can also engage ballistic and cruise missiles and drones.May 19, 2023"
They are building Ukraines M1's as we type.
That's not old shit.
We are critically short of even 155mm Howitzer ammunition! SloJoe said so on air and revealed top secret information. He's not in jail though.
Yeah because 155m Howitzer ammo is going to save us from Chy-na
Christ
Production ramped up to replace the shells anyways.
If the US gets in some archaic artillery war it's fucking toast. So much would've had to go wrong it's not even funny
The Air Force alone would wipe the floor with chy-na
We have exactly one factory to make those shells. This isn't the 1940's. Odd they need all that artillery in Ukraine isn't it. Are you really this clueless. We use arty like water! You have no actual facts for youer arguments. Ukraine is a corrupt hell hole. I do not care what happens to it. Zelenski is a billionaire from our tax dollars. he doesn't give a shit to buy weapons and enriches himself. Until he's gone nothing will change.
We have 1 factory for a reason.
We also have the war production act and reserves. We literally have factories sitting in bunkers underground for just such things.
Biden was an idiot to reveal our shortage, no argument there. It's basically for a very specific system though. We have lots of others, and again, you probably aren't using land based 155mm against Chy-na so who else would it even matter against?
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
How much will that cost the average household? There are approximately 131.2 million households in the United States. So the average cost per household is $113 billion divided by 131.2 million, which is $861.
Real money to most American households.
Counting sunk cost as new expenditures.
If the US ships 1 billion worth of hardware that was paid for in 2005 and had a planned decommission in 2025 that would cost 200 million how much did it cost?
Better to give Ukraine old shit than the Taliban
Rather easily
Patriot missile batteries and current Abrams tanks are not old equipment. You probably cheered arming the Taliban too.
Patriot is 1984.
Abrams is 1980.
Both have newer replacement systems already.
Patriot probably has some relevance moving forward even with a neutered Russia. Parking 8 or so on Taiwan comes to mind.
Abrams was specifically designed to eat commie tanks. Not going to be a huge need for loads of them if all those commie tanks are burning hulks in Ukraine. Tanks aren't great for naval Island hopping in the Pacific.
The last tim I thought and cared enough to look, the Patriot batteries sent were 2 or 3 "Blocks" old. Why we don't update old airframes to new blocks, I don't know, but that's no how it's done and nothing to do with Ukraine or anywhere else. What Ukraine has is the shit that had a rather dubious record versus Scuds in 1991-1992. At least that's what I remember. I hope the current US fielded Patriot batteries are better, but I digress.
Same with Abrams tanks. The Mod nomenclature is byzantine. The important part is the M1Ax part. Again, why don't the upgrade the all existing hulls, don't know.
Tldr Patriot is a set of systems so you can upgrade and replace different parts of the system at different times i.e. radars, command, launchers, etc.
What do you do with all the old "complete" systems once you've upgraded/replaced all parts?
If only there was a place to send them to collect performance data that would harm our strategic "rivals" all while we didn't have to pay for decommissioning...
I'm fine with sending them to Taiwan as an option but most here would probably object to that bc WW3! Nukes! Xi has a right to dictate what the US sends to Taiwan!
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
How much will that cost the average household? There are approximately 131.2 million households in the United States. So the average cost per household is $113 billion divided by 131.2 million, which is $861.
Real money to most American households.
Counting sunk cost as new expenditures.
If the US ships 1 billion worth of hardware that was paid for in 2005 and had a planned decommission in 2025 that would cost 200 million how much did it cost?
Better to give Ukraine old shit than the Taliban
Rather easily
Patriot missile batteries and current Abrams tanks are not old equipment. You probably cheered arming the Taliban too.
Patriot is 1984.
Abrams is 1980.
Both have newer replacement systems already.
Patriot probably has some relevance moving forward even with a neutered Russia. Parking 8 or so on Taiwan comes to mind.
Abrams was specifically designed to eat commie tanks. Not going to be a huge need for loads of them if all those commie tanks are burning hulks in Ukraine. Tanks aren't great for naval Island hopping in the Pacific.
"What is the US most advanced air defense system? Patriot missile system. The Patriot is the U.S. military's most advanced air defense system, with a range of roughly 20 to 100 miles, depending on the threat. It was designed as an antiaircraft system, but newer variants of Patriot can also engage ballistic and cruise missiles and drones.May 19, 2023"
They are building Ukraines M1's as we type.
That's not old shit.
We are critically short of even 155mm Howitzer ammunition! SloJoe said so on air and revealed top secret information. He's not in jail though.
Yeah because 155m Howitzer ammo is going to save us from Chy-na
Christ
Production ramped up to replace the shells anyways.
If the US gets in some archaic artillery war it's fucking toast. So much would've had to go wrong it's not even funny
The Air Force alone would wipe the floor with chy-na
We have exactly one factory to make those shells. This isn't the 1940's. Odd they need all that artillery in Ukraine isn't it. Are you really this clueless. We use arty like water! You have no actual facts for youer arguments. Ukraine is a corrupt hell hole. I do not care what happens to it. Zelenski is a billionaire from our tax dollars. he doesn't give a shit to buy weapons and enriches himself. Until he's gone nothing will change.
We have 1 factory for a reason.
We also have the war production act and reserves. We literally have factories sitting in bunkers underground for just such things.
Biden was an idiot to reveal our shortage, no argument there. It's basically for a very specific system though. We have lots of others, and again, you probably aren't using land based 155mm against Chy-na so who else would it even matter against?
It’s funny when we° take Biden at his bumbling word on that as fact…
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
How much will that cost the average household? There are approximately 131.2 million households in the United States. So the average cost per household is $113 billion divided by 131.2 million, which is $861.
Real money to most American households.
Counting sunk cost as new expenditures.
If the US ships 1 billion worth of hardware that was paid for in 2005 and had a planned decommission in 2025 that would cost 200 million how much did it cost?
Better to give Ukraine old shit than the Taliban
Rather easily
Patriot missile batteries and current Abrams tanks are not old equipment. You probably cheered arming the Taliban too.
Patriot is 1984.
Abrams is 1980.
Both have newer replacement systems already.
Patriot probably has some relevance moving forward even with a neutered Russia. Parking 8 or so on Taiwan comes to mind.
Abrams was specifically designed to eat commie tanks. Not going to be a huge need for loads of them if all those commie tanks are burning hulks in Ukraine. Tanks aren't great for naval Island hopping in the Pacific.
"What is the US most advanced air defense system? Patriot missile system. The Patriot is the U.S. military's most advanced air defense system, with a range of roughly 20 to 100 miles, depending on the threat. It was designed as an antiaircraft system, but newer variants of Patriot can also engage ballistic and cruise missiles and drones.May 19, 2023"
They are building Ukraines M1's as we type.
That's not old shit.
We are critically short of even 155mm Howitzer ammunition! SloJoe said so on air and revealed top secret information. He's not in jail though.
Yeah because 155m Howitzer ammo is going to save us from Chy-na
Christ
Production ramped up to replace the shells anyways.
If the US gets in some archaic artillery war it's fucking toast. So much would've had to go wrong it's not even funny
The Air Force alone would wipe the floor with chy-na
We have exactly one factory to make those shells. This isn't the 1940's. Odd they need all that artillery in Ukraine isn't it. Are you really this clueless. We use arty like water! You have no actual facts for youer arguments. Ukraine is a corrupt hell hole. I do not care what happens to it. Zelenski is a billionaire from our tax dollars. he doesn't give a shit to buy weapons and enriches himself. Until he's gone nothing will change.
We have 1 factory for a reason.
We also have the war production act and reserves. We literally have factories sitting in bunkers underground for just such things.
Biden was an idiot to reveal our shortage, no argument there. It's basically for a very specific system though. We have lots of others, and again, you probably aren't using land based 155mm against Chy-na so who else would it even matter against?
It’s funny when we° take Biden at his bumbling word on that as fact…
It was fact. Biden wasn't supposed to say shit but then he's a senile moron so two things working against keeping secrets. He sells them normally Hunter was probably pissed that they blew any chance of selling that info to enemies.
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
Only dumb thing here is you swallowing the msm narrative. I thought better of you. I'm going to make a guess here. You are under 35?
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
THIS....THIS...THIS..... If this ever comes to light it will be the biggest corruption scandal exposed EVER. With names that will make alot of people really take notice that we have been living in at corrupt state controlled by a few truly evil mother fuckers.
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
That might bust your budget
It is not the dollar amount individually. It is about what it can do collectively. And what it can do for our own people. Hey every household in Laihana gets $750.......Did they just not lose fkn everything? Not even to mention the transfer of wealth to future descendants. The very thing that libs rail against for minorities today. So much hypocrisy and stupidity. Back to my original point. Why send billions upon billions to any foreign country? We wouldn't do it for Japan. You know why? Japan doesn't launder the money of our politicians both dem and rep. I realize I got off track here. My apologies but what you are seeing from msm isn't the truth. A cross dressing comedian doesn't suddenly become president unless there are outside influences with the power to make it happen for their own benefit.
I am starting to believe that we are the aggressors. Putting biolabs all around Russias borders. All with the ability to target ethically undiverse militaries and populations with bioweapons. The US military being quite diverse is not nearly as susceptible touch an attack. You think Russia shouldn't take measures to safeguard themselves? Just another example of the US over reaching and trying to act like we are clean. Hate to tell ya but we are the world bullies butting in where we shouldn't.
If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of this
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
Agree with most of this.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.
========== As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
The statement was...
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces" into "Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
False
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshit
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the question
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot? Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces. Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome. I call BULLSHIT. That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do. By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
Russia would not be able to invade Poland.
Again, you started this thread because you were worried if Russia wasn't stopped immediately they would continue to invade other counties. Now your opinion is they are so weak they couldn't put a dent in Poland. Why the change in opinion?
I thought Russia had a second wind in them.
Turns out they dont
So are we calling the August Spring offensive a success? Or still in LIP territory?
LIPO territory
We shouldn't be here. Peace should have been negotiated but all the political powers you claim to not support wanted nothing to do with peace because they couldnt continue to profit from the corruption.
Fuck off
Ukraine can defend themselves from Russia. Deal with it.
Um, no they demonstrably cannot "defend themselves" without billions from NATO, NATO training, NATO weapons, etc.
Might want to look "themselves" up in the dictionary, you propagandizing twit.
They are the ones doing the dying
I am ok with 50 cents worth of my taxes going to help ukraine defend themselves
That might bust your budget
It is not the dollar amount individually. It is about what it can do collectively. And what it can do for our own people. Hey every household in Laihana gets $750.......Did they just not lose fkn everything? Not even to mention the transfer of wealth to future descendants. The very thing that libs rail against for minorities today. So much hypocrisy and stupidity. Back to my original point. Why send billions upon billions to any foreign country? We wouldn't do it for Japan. You know why? Japan doesn't launder the money of our politicians both dem and rep. I realize I got off track here. My apologies but what you are seeing from msm isn't the truth. A cross dressing comedian doesn't suddenly become president unless there are outside influences with the power to make it happen for their own benefit.
I am starting to believe that we are the aggressors. Putting biolabs all around Russias borders. All with the ability to target ethically undiverse militaries and populations with bioweapons. The US military being quite diverse is not nearly as susceptible touch an attack. You think Russia shouldn't take measures to safeguard themselves? Just another example of the US over reaching and trying to act like we are clean. Hate to tell ya but we are the world bullies butting in where we shouldn't.
Same as it ever was.
The cost per kill is really high. You’d think PGOS would demand greater efficiency per dead person
I’m quite sure the Ukraine and Russian orphans are relieved it took 1/2 million rounds to kill their parents.
Comments
Yeah, I can't imagine why Ukraine would need a bunch of 155m Howitzer ammo and the US wouldn't. No fucking clue.
HIMARS are old as hell and even they make Howitzer artillery look stone age.
We also have the war production act and reserves. We literally have factories sitting in bunkers underground for just such things.
Biden was an idiot to reveal our shortage, no argument there. It's basically for a very specific system though. We have lots of others, and again, you probably aren't using land based 155mm against Chy-na so who else would it even matter against?
Tldr Patriot is a set of systems so you can upgrade and replace different parts of the system at different times i.e. radars, command, launchers, etc.
What do you do with all the old "complete" systems once you've upgraded/replaced all parts?
If only there was a place to send them to collect performance data that would harm our strategic "rivals" all while we didn't have to pay for decommissioning...
I'm fine with sending them to Taiwan as an option but most here would probably object to that bc WW3! Nukes! Xi has a right to dictate what the US sends to Taiwan!
oceanfront propertyanything but defense....First use of US funds that have been accounted for properly.
Many fine people from Ukraine.
Also did he say "Let's Roll" in English? Twice.
Jesus
I am starting to believe that we are the aggressors. Putting biolabs all around Russias borders. All with the ability to target ethically undiverse militaries and populations with bioweapons. The US military being quite diverse is not nearly as susceptible touch an attack. You think Russia shouldn't take measures to safeguard themselves? Just another example of the US over reaching and trying to act like we are clean. Hate to tell ya but we are the world bullies butting in where we shouldn't.
The cost per kill is really high. You’d think PGOS would demand greater efficiency per dead person
I’m quite sure the Ukraine and Russian orphans are relieved it took 1/2 million rounds to kill their parents.