Welcome to the Hardcore Husky Forums. Folks who are well-known in Cyberland and not that dumb.
Can we offer this Ukranian solider a scholarship?
Comments
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You know this is projection right? We? know the psychology of shit posters who claim their opposition is "seething." The odds are high he just got high that's how angry he is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Show me where I said he was worse than HitlerRaceBannon said:
lolPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Never said he was worse than HitlerRaceBannon said:
So not a threatPostGameOrangeSlices said:
World War 3 would be ridiculous because...Russia cant even hold off Ukraine let alone NATO and NATO PacificRaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
You guys, as well as Tucker, have jumped the Shark
I was just reading how propaganda doesn’t have to be consistent
Is Paris burning? You aren't considering a guy worse than Hitler with nukes when he loses
Your boyfriend jumped the shark
He is a wannabe Hitler
There's a difference
Propaganda doesn't have to be consistent
Take the L Race
Russia fucking sucks and didnt get their Special Military Operation win
You can seethe and cope all you want.
No WW3. No nukes. Just good old fashioned Soviet incompetence -
Race and I agree on most things. HTH.RoadTrip said:
You know this is projection right? We? know the psychology of shit posters who claim their opposition is "seething." The odds are high he just got high that's how angry he is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Show me where I said he was worse than HitlerRaceBannon said:
lolPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Never said he was worse than HitlerRaceBannon said:
So not a threatPostGameOrangeSlices said:
World War 3 would be ridiculous because...Russia cant even hold off Ukraine let alone NATO and NATO PacificRaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
You guys, as well as Tucker, have jumped the Shark
I was just reading how propaganda doesn’t have to be consistent
Is Paris burning? You aren't considering a guy worse than Hitler with nukes when he loses
Your boyfriend jumped the shark
He is a wannabe Hitler
There's a difference
Propaganda doesn't have to be consistent
Take the L Race
Russia fucking sucks and didnt get their Special Military Operation win
You can seethe and cope all you want.
No WW3. No nukes. Just good old fashioned Soviet incompetence
I know he is not seething and coping. He's slightly irritated -
Ftfy.PostGameOrangeSlices said:RaceBannon said:
Ok HPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Im sorry, where does it say Vlad is worse?RaceBannon said:
BumpPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Vlad and Hitler have a lot in common, Vlad.WestlinnDuck said:
Just like the Hitler rule, the first to call you Vlad is losing the argument. Congrats.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Okay, Vlad.WestlinnDuck said:PostGameOrangeSlices said:
The only act of war was Russia crossing the Ukranian border last February. Christ, you areWestlinnDuck said:PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Advisors are everywhere. Welcome to politics.RaceBannon said:US advisors are already there
Arming Ukraine is an act of war
You're killing Ukrainian and Russian people with your blind support of what a bunch of lying assholes tell you to support
Arming Ukraine is not an act of war.SellingGiving weapons to kill Russians isnotan act of war.
The only ones killing Ukranians and Russians, are Russians.pathetichonest.
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The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent. -
Can victory (whatever that means) actually be achieved at the current money/arms that are being sent? Or is just slowing down Russia victory in itself? My gut on all of this says that we thought that massive sanctions combined with an initial flurry of weapons was going to be enough to quickly win and get the Russians out. Just don't see how the American people will accept new borders drawn roughly where they are at now as a victory when they've been promised more with the piles of cash and weapons sent and the need to pay $5/gas (I don't think this thing is the reason for $5 gas but it's been messaged that way).UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns. -
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general. -
Tldr No.Bob_C said:
Can victory (whatever that means) actually be achieved at the current money/arms that are being sent? Or is just slowing down Russia victory in itself? My gut on all of this says that we thought that massive sanctions combined with an initial flurry of weapons was going to be enough to quickly win and get the Russians out. Just don't see how the American people will accept new borders drawn roughly where they are at now as a victory when they've been promised more with the piles of cash and weapons sent and the need to pay $5/gas (I don't think this thing is the reason for $5 gas but it's been messaged that way).UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
And that's by design. Both bc they don't want a decisive toss out of Russia strategically bc they want to let them continue to bleed out.
Also because war = $$$
One I agree with and one I don't but them's the breaks.
And yeah, gas is $5 bc Biden killed US energy on day 1, as he said he'd do. -
Some would argue provoking RUS to invade did just that.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
-
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general. -
So nothing to do with protecting Ukraine’s people or democracy. At least you admit it.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Tldr No.Bob_C said:
Can victory (whatever that means) actually be achieved at the current money/arms that are being sent? Or is just slowing down Russia victory in itself? My gut on all of this says that we thought that massive sanctions combined with an initial flurry of weapons was going to be enough to quickly win and get the Russians out. Just don't see how the American people will accept new borders drawn roughly where they are at now as a victory when they've been promised more with the piles of cash and weapons sent and the need to pay $5/gas (I don't think this thing is the reason for $5 gas but it's been messaged that way).UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
And that's by design. Both bc they don't want a decisive toss out of Russia strategically bc they want to let them continue to bleed out.
Also because war = $$$
One I agree with and one I don't but them's the breaks.
And yeah, gas is $5 bc Biden killed US energy on day 1, as he said he'd do. -
WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
Your second point, not as much. Ukrainian corruption is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
This was about sending a message that the time of would-be conquerors and land grabs is at an end. The US is great at justifying reasons for invading and bombing the shit out of 3rd world countries, but the US also doesn't annex land like it's the 1700s anymore.
Russia and China have a military philosophy centered entirely on land grabs. China wants Taiwan, and all of Asia lets be honest. Russia wants USSR 2.0 - Georgia, Crimea, then the big magnum opus - Ukraine - which was a complete and total clusterfuck.
The West, which runs the world, decided no more landgrabs and therefore it was easy to justify helping Ukraine. Ukraine has shown no lack of will to fight either, and that was before Russia raped, mutilated, and deported children in places like Bucha and Mariupol.
They have a highly trained and highly motivated army that is pushing Russia to the brink.
In a lot of ways this "Speshul Military Operation" was about sending a message. Russia tried and failed to show they are to be feared again. The US and allies are showing that the time for bullshit landgrabs is over and there will be consequences for such attempts. And by doing so, it sends a very clear message to China. -
Ukrainian corruption is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Bullshit.
Absolute and utter bullshit.
-
I'm sure the nukes will fly any day now buddy.PurpleThrobber said:Ukrainian corruption is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Bullshit.
Absolute and utter bullshit. -
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
-
-
PGOS will claim this is Russian propoganda. He's all in and must surely believe Poland has its own Badass Wardaddy.Blueduck said: -
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed -
-
If Russia is so fucking feeble now, why are you worried they'd invade elsewhere? According to your logic, they are disabled and incapable of stamping out an anthill.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed -
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
-
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols -
That wasn't his point but I'll engage your take. When Ukraine is out of teenagers and retirees, where do they turn?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols -
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
-
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is? -
They seem to be doing just fine with the troops they haveRoadTrip said:
That wasn't his point but I'll engage your take. When Ukraine is out of teenagers and retirees, where do they turn?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols -
If any NATO country gets involved, I believe all of them have to by treaty.Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right? -
Not true unless attacked. Remember France not going to Iraq?RoadTrip said:
If any NATO country gets involved, I believe all of them have to by treaty.Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right? -
There are plenty of sources who disagree but it doesn't matter if Ukraine has 100,000 or 400,000 casualties. Eventually, if Russia doesn't disengage and pull out, the death count will be undeniable and Ukraine will need foreign soldiers no?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
They seem to be doing just fine with the troops they haveRoadTrip said:
That wasn't his point but I'll engage your take. When Ukraine is out of teenagers and retirees, where do they turn?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols -
No.RoadTrip said:
There are plenty of sources who disagree but it doesn't matter if Ukraine has 100,000 or 400,000 casualties. Eventually, if Russia doesn't disengage and pull out, the death count will be undeniable and Ukraine will need foreign soldiers no?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
They seem to be doing just fine with the troops they haveRoadTrip said:
That wasn't his point but I'll engage your take. When Ukraine is out of teenagers and retirees, where do they turn?PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols -
You haven't been listening for 183 pages that's how dumb this is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Why doesn't Russia send in the troops that can beat Ukraine?Blueduck said:
Oh nice, start with the name calling when you cant answer the questionPostGameOrangeSlices said:
Notice no NATO troops are fighting, dipshitBlueduck said:
FalsePostGameOrangeSlices said:
Now do Russia vs Ukraine from 2022Blueduck said:
The statement was...PostGameOrangeSlices said:WestlinnDuck said:
Russia has nukes and oil. That's it. NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today. The problem is China and that's where our focus should be. The dems dirty expensive non-reliable US energy policy is a boon for both Russia and China as our energy costs have soared and we are hooked on China's metals and solar panels and wind turbines. So, we have no articulable direct interest in the Ukraine being run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs rather than corrupt Russian oligarchs. We do have articulable interests in a secure US border and disengaging from China. The Euros still aren't spending what we do on the military on a GDP percentage.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Now do percentage of that spending/gdp donated. Belgium/Netherlands basically both donated their entire air forces.WestlinnDuck said:
The middle road I'm advocating is that we don't have a national interest in being the world's policeman and rescuing a corrupt Ukraine. Let the Euros figure it out. I don't see the UK, Germany or France on the top list below for some reason. Luxembourg clearly is pulling it's weight though.UW_Doog_Bot said:
What would you consider "acting like it's a problem" that is beyond the current response while also not dangerously escalating things towards WW3 as you so claim to be concerned about? Should France send Nukes? What exactly is the critique of the European response beyond "not enough" which you also seem to be against "dangerous escalation"? Which is it?WestlinnDuck said:
It there is a problem, it's a European problem. They don't act like it's a problem, so why are we carrying most of the freight?UW_Doog_Bot said:
Agree with most of this.RaceBannon said:
Quite honestly I don't disagree with a lot of thisUW_Doog_Bot said:
He's not but that doesn't mean Russia isn't the enemy.RaceBannon said:If Putin is the biggest threat since Hitler and wants to go to the English Channel if not stopped in Ukraine why would world War 3 be ridiculous?
Have you seen what Germany looked like when Hitler lost? If he had nukes he would have used them
PGOS is willing to fuck around and find out because of his boyfriend Zelensky
When you're Alabama playing Mississippi State you don't quit when you're up 34-17.
Or in this case, when you're playing for the North championship you root for Wazzu to knock Oregon off by even a field goal.
I agree that the admin is lying about the "why". I just overall see it as a net gain to neuter Russia and send a signal to Chy-na about Taiwan(to actually prevent ww3).
My opposition has always been about the bad actors in America and the globalist cabal being behind this
And Zelensky is a piece of shit
The bullshit about this whole thing is well, bullshit
Let them kill each other.
What's happening in Ukraine IS horrible but so long as the Ukrainians are willing to be the ones to fight and die for their country then that's their choice.
I, and I suspect many here who aren't pinkos, would do the same for our own country(not government).
I'll be rooting for Wazzu this week. Things may change next week. Ups and downs of realpolitik.
Please draw the middle road you are advocating for and do so in detail with specifics by country since Europe is hardly monolithic in its response.
As per raw numbers the US is the leader but as a percentage of gdp or military spending we aren't close to many other countries. I doubt you expect Luxembourg to out donate even say, Canada, despite the relative interests in security concerns.
==========
As a share of its GDP, Poland is the biggest defense spender in NATO, budgeting 3.9 percent in 2023. The U.S. is second, spending 3.49 percent, followed by Greece at 3.01 percent, Estonia at 2.73 percent, and Lithuania at 2.54 percent. Luxembourg, at 0.72 percent, is the smallest spender, followed by Belgium at 1.13 percent, Spain at 1.26 percent, Turkey at 1.31 percent, and Slovenia at 1.35 percent.
And then bought new stuff from the US.
Similar situations with the Baltic states.
You can argue that the US should be more isolationist, and I have sympathy for that position as @RaceBannon could probably attest to but, ultimately it's hard to maintain unless you want a multipolar world with Russia and the CCP getting to call the shots.
I think you have to be the big dick and throw the big dick energy around. Teddy and Trump style. Smartly, but none the less. #rocketman #solemanishredded
Ad in a long talk about prevention ism and US foreign policy in general.
Your first point is correct. Poland would win a war against Russia, by itself. We know that now, we didn't in early 2022.
.
NATO without the US can handle Russian conventional forces. Russia couldn't take Poland today.
Extrapolating "NATO without the US could handle Russian conventional forces"
into
"Poland would win a war against Russia by itself" is hilarious!
If you mean Poland without NATO, you are playing with about a dozen cards short of a full deck.
2023 Russia could not take over 2023 Poland. Case closed
If Poland is such a bad ass wtf does Ukraine need 100 billion from us for.
Send in the Pols
Why dont they send in the Pols to take care of old Puty Poot?
Clearly they would mop the the floor with Putin's conventional forces.
Dont even need NATO ..right?
Why doesn't Poland send in troops in a war they aren't part of?
See how dumb this is?
YOU made the ridiculous claim Poland can take Russia all by it's lonesome.
I call BULLSHIT.
That was the point and now you're waffling around and moving goal poasts and deflecting as you always do.
By the stats and numbers and assets you are wrong unless Poland has NATO backing. Case closed.
