TSIO Episode #28: UW 2017 Recruiting Class Review

Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.

Heavy TBS trigger warning.

We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.

traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a

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TSIO Podcast

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Tequilla was DRUNK

Dennis Hates Us

Comments

DeepSeaZ

Swaye - with Babushka increase sample size to other years and largely same story holds ... we got really lucky with Browning
We did?
Or Sirmon. Whatever.
He's even worse.
If you don't think Sirmon is a good QB prospect you should never talk about TBS ever, ever, ever again. Ever.
I was right about Eason.

Fuck off.
Whoa

A tad early to bail on Eason. At least he has an arm

If he is as bad his soph year as Browning then you were right
Jack Lockner had an arm too.

At least jack could run. Eason is not mobile

Dennis_DeYoung

lol SWAT analysis, the perfect framework for lazy or simple people to try to manufacture an insight
IT IS SWOT MOTHERFUCKER GET IT RIGHT!!!!

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and I'm too drunk to remember that the last one is threats.
It's SWOT? Fuck. What do I do with this now?

Me and @PurpleJ can give you some ideas if you come over to our house.

PurpleJ

I've been promoted to live-in boyfren!

WOOOF!

Mad_Son

Let me save you three hours:

In looking through the comments for our last few podcasts, I've noticed that there have been requests and/or disappointments that we didn't talk or discuss this topic or that topic or whatever. As the podcast has been drifting towards 2 hours as it is (probably about 30 minutes longer than ideal) given the large number of topics/interest in the program, it's just impossible to get through everything.

While texting today about the latest developments at Cal today, I thought it'd be a good idea to put out a topic that quite honestly we likely won't get into on the pod anytime in the near future (if at all) but is interesting enough that I'm sure that @CokeGreaterThanPepsi, @Dennis_DeYoung and I will have very strong, and potentially very different opinions on. So on with the topic ... "Progams Exploiting Market Inefficiencies to Fast Track Competitiveness."

Both Cal and Oregon have made coaching changes this offseason and while you could argue that both of them have made reasonable, but not necessarily inspiring, head coaching hires, it's very difficult to argue against the fact that they are putting together high end assistant staffs.

One of the topics that we've collectively been very adamant about is how important recruiting is in building up the foundation of the program. Simply put, if you don't recruit at a high level, barring insane development levels, you've already lost on the field 2-3 years down the road.

Going back historically with Oregon about 10+ years ago, two areas where they outpaced the competition and it allowed it to really get a leg up in recruiting were tied to being one of the first programs to really embrace the arms race with respect to facilities and then the variety in their uniforms. As time has progressed, almost every program has upgraded their facilities and so many programs have different uniforms that those "advantages" for Oregon have fallen back.

Another prevalent theme that those that remember the Don James era and now are seeing similar with Chris Petersen, and then comparing that to what we see around the country with the elite level coaches like Saban, Meyer, etc. is that there are only a handful of those elite coaches in place. Make no mistake, when you have an elite level coach in place, while the assistants are important, the stability at the top of your program with consistent messaging, vision, and way that work is done is almost impossible to duplicate. The resume build that assistants get from being on your staff is tremendous which allows the HC to have the ability to get high end assistants on a fairly consistent basis. The vulnerability though is that the turnover in assistants can be high as those positions are stepping stones to bigger/better jobs.

What I see in what Cal and Oregon doing is that they looked at the market and their own situations and decided that since they will not be able to get an elite level HC now (or likely anytime in the future), that instead of wasting resources on an above average HC, they would go after HC candidates that may over time develop into that on the cheap while devoting the resources to securing as deep and talented of an assistant staff as they could get. The idea behind that is that the splashes made by pulling ace recruiters together will allow the staff to increase their recruiting ability and down the road that will increase their on field performance ... if everything plays out right then the HC develops during that period and by the time all the pieces come together you get magic.

On the surface, this isn't a terrible idea. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again ... and in the case of programs like Cal and Oregon, trying to operate in the same manner as the power schools in the PAC like USC or Washington operate is a recipe for falling in line behind them. The down side of this though is the part that nobody is talking about. Right now, it's a bunch of free pub and offseason natty talk because the staffs are great. There's no question that there will be recruiting upticks. The downside though is that the assistants that are being hired are being lured with more money and responsibility than what they could get from their existing elite schools for one reason or another. It's not so much that these coaches are in a position that they can't do the jobs that they are being hired to do, but more that they've made it extremely clear through their actions that their expectation is that they are using this new job to jump somewhere else as soon as possible. And that's the problem ...

The problem with what Cal and Oregon are doing is that 2-4 years down the line, the balance of the assistant staffs that they are hiring today will be looking at either taking HC jobs elsewhere or using the positions that they have to leverage lateral moves to bigger programs with more established HC and more $$$ to finish out their resumes. These schools will perpetually be in a position where they are turning over staffs with one massive problem ... they are ultimately operating with a HC that will fall behind those of the national elite unless they get extremely lucky with their hire and that HC turns into a national elite ... at which point he likely gets plucked away anyway. Some of that is just what it is anyway ... but if the HC is what the HC is, to retain the HC the resources start to get shifted away from the assistants and towards the HC ... if the $$$ isn't there for the assistants then the recruiting base starts to crumble which leads to results starting to crumble, etc.

All in all, what Cal and Oregon are doing right now is a house of cards play that while the in the short term is exploiting some existing market inefficiencies, as the bigger programs become victims of this, they will continue to build ways to protect themselves from this kind of behavior going forward just like they did in the arms races for facilities and destroying the multi-uniform cool factor. These schools may have won this round ... but ultimately, college football has long proven that if you have the right Head Coach in place, that's the school that will ultimately win.

I love when there are like a dozen chins on a post and then one downvote from Tequilla

Mad_Son

I liked the excitement. I don't TBS a fraction of what you guys do but I agree with your insights. It makes it easy for me to parrot what I don't see on my own. We're clearly heading in the right direction as a program.

Congratulations @Dennis_DeYoung for your winning Haiku. Shame on @CokeGreaterThanPepsi for placing third behind @Tequilla

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

I liked the excitement. I don't TBS a fraction of what you guys do but I agree with your insights. It makes it easy for me to parrot what I don't see on my own. We're clearly heading in the right direction as a program.

Congratulations @Dennis_DeYoung for your winning Haiku. Shame on @CokeGreaterThanPepsi for placing third behind @Tequilla

FML

Dennis_DeYoung

I liked the excitement. I don't TBS a fraction of what you guys do but I agree with your insights. It makes it easy for me to parrot what I don't see on my own. We're clearly heading in the right direction as a program.

Congratulations @Dennis_DeYoung for your winning Haiku. Shame on @CokeGreaterThanPepsi for placing third behind @Tequilla
FML

TurdBomber

lol SWAT analysis, the perfect framework for lazy or simple people to try to manufacture an insight
IT IS SWOT MOTHERFUCKER GET IT RIGHT!!!!

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and I'm too drunk to remember that the last one is threats.
It's SWOT? Fuck. What do I do with this now?
Me and @PurpleJ can give you some ideas if you come over to our house.

That suggestion is creepier than that mask & costume.

animate

Hey, question.

- who does the background music for the podcast?
- where do you get it?

I noticed all instrumental?

HHBruh

Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.

Heavy TBS trigger warning.

We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.

traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a

3 hour Pod while @Dennis_DeYoung is off the wagon...bet this ends well.

Gloves OFF BITCHES!

Dennis_DeYoung

Hey, question.

- who does the background music for the podcast?
me

- where do you get it?
the internet

I noticed all instrumental?
it's hard to listen to people talk when there are words in the background

CuntWaffle

I listened to it and liked it

YellowSnow

What do these kids today have against Bob Seger? Today's music ain't got no soul.

Dennis_DeYoung

I listened to it and liked it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghZt2cILcCU

animate

What do these kids today have against Bob Seger? Today's music ain't got no soul.

The kinda music that soothes the soul?

YellowSnow

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?

Dennis_DeYoung

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?

Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.

YellowSnow

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?
Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.

As PLSS would say if you're gonna be on the bandwagon you got to be sipping the finest whisk(e)y.

RoadDawg55

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?
Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.
As PLSS would say if you're gonna be on the bandwagon you got to be sipping the finest whisk(e)y.

Pup and Billy were supposedly partying it up with bitches and sippin on the finest whiskey when Sark left. It was a sudden change from weeks earlier when Pup advocated Sark getting a 6th year.

SpoonieLuv

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Dennis_DeYoung

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

You can go to hell!!!!!!!!!

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

I've never hated you more!

CuntWaffle

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.

Agreed!

Tequilla

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.
Agreed!

FUCK OFF!!!

TurdBomber

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.

HHBruh

Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.

Heavy TBS trigger warning.

We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.

traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a
3 hour Pod while @Dennis_DeYoung is off the wagon...bet this ends well.

Gloves OFF BITCHES!

Update: listened. Holy fuck what a finish!

Janet Reno!!

Dennis_DeYoung

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.

It should be. Fucking Coker's retarded mongoloid mind fucked it up and now we have to live with the shame.

TurdBomber

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.
It should be. Fucking Coker's retarded mongoloid mind fucked it up and now we have to live with the shame.

Clear case of Abundance.

Gladstone

I'm glad this was brought up, but the drama and (justified) infatuation around Ty Jones did take a little away from the other WRs. Both of which I am extremely excited about. It's certainly the best WR cohort in my lifetime. Question for you guys: do any of the WR from last year's class, including Fuller, see significant playing time in their careers?

Also you spent way too much time bashing poor Haener lol. Obviously he isn't the best and was a plan Z recruit, but I felt bad for him.

Comments

DeepSeaZ

Swaye - with Babushka increase sample size to other years and largely same story holds ... we got really lucky with Browning
We did?
Or Sirmon. Whatever.
He's even worse.
If you don't think Sirmon is a good QB prospect you should never talk about TBS ever, ever, ever again. Ever.
I was right about Eason.

Fuck off.
Whoa

A tad early to bail on Eason. At least he has an arm

If he is as bad his soph year as Browning then you were right
Jack Lockner had an arm too.

At least jack could run. Eason is not mobile

Dennis_DeYoung

lol SWAT analysis, the perfect framework for lazy or simple people to try to manufacture an insight
IT IS SWOT MOTHERFUCKER GET IT RIGHT!!!!

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and I'm too drunk to remember that the last one is threats.
It's SWOT? Fuck. What do I do with this now?

Me and @PurpleJ can give you some ideas if you come over to our house.

PurpleJ

I've been promoted to live-in boyfren!

WOOOF!

Mad_Son

Let me save you three hours:

In looking through the comments for our last few podcasts, I've noticed that there have been requests and/or disappointments that we didn't talk or discuss this topic or that topic or whatever. As the podcast has been drifting towards 2 hours as it is (probably about 30 minutes longer than ideal) given the large number of topics/interest in the program, it's just impossible to get through everything.

While texting today about the latest developments at Cal today, I thought it'd be a good idea to put out a topic that quite honestly we likely won't get into on the pod anytime in the near future (if at all) but is interesting enough that I'm sure that @CokeGreaterThanPepsi, @Dennis_DeYoung and I will have very strong, and potentially very different opinions on. So on with the topic ... "Progams Exploiting Market Inefficiencies to Fast Track Competitiveness."

Both Cal and Oregon have made coaching changes this offseason and while you could argue that both of them have made reasonable, but not necessarily inspiring, head coaching hires, it's very difficult to argue against the fact that they are putting together high end assistant staffs.

One of the topics that we've collectively been very adamant about is how important recruiting is in building up the foundation of the program. Simply put, if you don't recruit at a high level, barring insane development levels, you've already lost on the field 2-3 years down the road.

Going back historically with Oregon about 10+ years ago, two areas where they outpaced the competition and it allowed it to really get a leg up in recruiting were tied to being one of the first programs to really embrace the arms race with respect to facilities and then the variety in their uniforms. As time has progressed, almost every program has upgraded their facilities and so many programs have different uniforms that those "advantages" for Oregon have fallen back.

Another prevalent theme that those that remember the Don James era and now are seeing similar with Chris Petersen, and then comparing that to what we see around the country with the elite level coaches like Saban, Meyer, etc. is that there are only a handful of those elite coaches in place. Make no mistake, when you have an elite level coach in place, while the assistants are important, the stability at the top of your program with consistent messaging, vision, and way that work is done is almost impossible to duplicate. The resume build that assistants get from being on your staff is tremendous which allows the HC to have the ability to get high end assistants on a fairly consistent basis. The vulnerability though is that the turnover in assistants can be high as those positions are stepping stones to bigger/better jobs.

What I see in what Cal and Oregon doing is that they looked at the market and their own situations and decided that since they will not be able to get an elite level HC now (or likely anytime in the future), that instead of wasting resources on an above average HC, they would go after HC candidates that may over time develop into that on the cheap while devoting the resources to securing as deep and talented of an assistant staff as they could get. The idea behind that is that the splashes made by pulling ace recruiters together will allow the staff to increase their recruiting ability and down the road that will increase their on field performance ... if everything plays out right then the HC develops during that period and by the time all the pieces come together you get magic.

On the surface, this isn't a terrible idea. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again ... and in the case of programs like Cal and Oregon, trying to operate in the same manner as the power schools in the PAC like USC or Washington operate is a recipe for falling in line behind them. The down side of this though is the part that nobody is talking about. Right now, it's a bunch of free pub and offseason natty talk because the staffs are great. There's no question that there will be recruiting upticks. The downside though is that the assistants that are being hired are being lured with more money and responsibility than what they could get from their existing elite schools for one reason or another. It's not so much that these coaches are in a position that they can't do the jobs that they are being hired to do, but more that they've made it extremely clear through their actions that their expectation is that they are using this new job to jump somewhere else as soon as possible. And that's the problem ...

The problem with what Cal and Oregon are doing is that 2-4 years down the line, the balance of the assistant staffs that they are hiring today will be looking at either taking HC jobs elsewhere or using the positions that they have to leverage lateral moves to bigger programs with more established HC and more $$$ to finish out their resumes. These schools will perpetually be in a position where they are turning over staffs with one massive problem ... they are ultimately operating with a HC that will fall behind those of the national elite unless they get extremely lucky with their hire and that HC turns into a national elite ... at which point he likely gets plucked away anyway. Some of that is just what it is anyway ... but if the HC is what the HC is, to retain the HC the resources start to get shifted away from the assistants and towards the HC ... if the $$$ isn't there for the assistants then the recruiting base starts to crumble which leads to results starting to crumble, etc.

All in all, what Cal and Oregon are doing right now is a house of cards play that while the in the short term is exploiting some existing market inefficiencies, as the bigger programs become victims of this, they will continue to build ways to protect themselves from this kind of behavior going forward just like they did in the arms races for facilities and destroying the multi-uniform cool factor. These schools may have won this round ... but ultimately, college football has long proven that if you have the right Head Coach in place, that's the school that will ultimately win.

I love when there are like a dozen chins on a post and then one downvote from Tequilla

Mad_Son

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

I liked the excitement. I don't TBS a fraction of what you guys do but I agree with your insights. It makes it easy for me to parrot what I don't see on my own. We're clearly heading in the right direction as a program.

Congratulations @Dennis_DeYoung for your winning Haiku. Shame on @CokeGreaterThanPepsi for placing third behind @Tequilla

FML

Dennis_DeYoung

I liked the excitement. I don't TBS a fraction of what you guys do but I agree with your insights. It makes it easy for me to parrot what I don't see on my own. We're clearly heading in the right direction as a program.

Congratulations @Dennis_DeYoung for your winning Haiku. Shame on @CokeGreaterThanPepsi for placing third behind @Tequilla
FML

TurdBomber

lol SWAT analysis, the perfect framework for lazy or simple people to try to manufacture an insight
IT IS SWOT MOTHERFUCKER GET IT RIGHT!!!!

Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and I'm too drunk to remember that the last one is threats.
It's SWOT? Fuck. What do I do with this now?
Me and @PurpleJ can give you some ideas if you come over to our house.

That suggestion is creepier than that mask & costume.

animate

Hey, question.

- who does the background music for the podcast?
- where do you get it?

I noticed all instrumental?

HHBruh

Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.

Heavy TBS trigger warning.

We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.

traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a

3 hour Pod while @Dennis_DeYoung is off the wagon...bet this ends well.

Gloves OFF BITCHES!

Dennis_DeYoung

Hey, question.

- who does the background music for the podcast?
me

- where do you get it?
the internet

I noticed all instrumental?
it's hard to listen to people talk when there are words in the background

CuntWaffle

I listened to it and liked it

YellowSnow

What do these kids today have against Bob Seger? Today's music ain't got no soul.

Dennis_DeYoung

I listened to it and liked it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghZt2cILcCU

animate

What do these kids today have against Bob Seger? Today's music ain't got no soul.

The kinda music that soothes the soul?

YellowSnow

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?

Dennis_DeYoung

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?

Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.

YellowSnow

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?
Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.

As PLSS would say if you're gonna be on the bandwagon you got to be sipping the finest whisk(e)y.

RoadDawg55

Is this class rare like 18 year old scotch?
Rare like Laphroaig 15, motherfucker.

This is that shit. Dopest in the game.
As PLSS would say if you're gonna be on the bandwagon you got to be sipping the finest whisk(e)y.

Pup and Billy were supposedly partying it up with bitches and sippin on the finest whiskey when Sark left. It was a sudden change from weeks earlier when Pup advocated Sark getting a 6th year.

SpoonieLuv

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Dennis_DeYoung

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

You can go to hell!!!!!!!!!

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

I've never hated you more!

CuntWaffle

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.

CokeGreaterThanPepsi

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.

Agreed!

Tequilla

I will say the mission statement thing is gay as fuck.
Agreed!

FUCK OFF!!!

TurdBomber

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.

HHBruh

Myself, @Tequilla, and @Dennis_DeYoung give our strong opinions on the class and the "recruiting season" as a whole. We also look at the coaches and how they performed in this recruiting cycle. We basically just nerd out the whole time.

Heavy TBS trigger warning.

We hope you enjoy, minus @SpoonieLuv.

traffic.libsyn.com/tsiopodcast/TSIO_-_Disastrous_End_to_a_Great_Start_Edition.m4a
3 hour Pod while @Dennis_DeYoung is off the wagon...bet this ends well.

Gloves OFF BITCHES!

Update: listened. Holy fuck what a finish!

Janet Reno!!

Dennis_DeYoung

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.

It should be. Fucking Coker's retarded mongoloid mind fucked it up and now we have to live with the shame.

TurdBomber

Should the "I" be lowercase?

TSiO?

Good question, but flagged for presuming anyone knows the correct answer.
It should be. Fucking Coker's retarded mongoloid mind fucked it up and now we have to live with the shame.

Clear case of Abundance.

Gladstone