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With both Sanders and Trump calling for single payer health care and increasing taxes on the wealthy

13

Comments

  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    oh god there is no helping you

    Then state how I'm wrong.
  • allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771

    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,516 Standard Supporter

    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    Better to ask why there's money in politics.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 110,137 Founders Club
    Been a rough campaign for big money so far. Needs more time to get their candidates in there
  • allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771

    Better to ask why there's money in politics.
    Can't ask. Some argument featuring circular logic. Case closed.
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,516 Standard Supporter

    Can't ask. Some argument featuring circular logic. Case closed.
    It's hard.
  • OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    Swaye said:

    I love 7-11 throwdowns over wallet size.
    I'm not here to argue wallet size... but if a fucker is going to imply that Sanders supporters are all lazy poor folks looking for a free transfer of wealth... I'm going to call the pussy out.
  • OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    dnc said:

    No shit man. It's called a punchline. Pretty sure everyone here understands he's not a commie, d2d notwithstanding.

    I respect Bernie's integrity. I don't respect his policies.
    Oh... sorry man. I guess the lack of it being funny is why I didn't recognize it as a punchline.
  • OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510

    Backtrack all you want dumbfuck. You know how I know you have a millimeter peter? Guys with truly big ones don't feel the need to compare.
    Huh? You implied all Berie supporters are lazy poor people looking for gov't handouts... I'm calling you out.

    But... sounds like you are just a keyboard pussy.

    That's what I though.
  • GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,165

    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    And that's yet another problem he can't solve, and even more smoke he's blowing up the asses of all of his supporters. Until Citizens United is overturned, nothing is going to change on that front. All he can do is appoint the most liberal justice available if a SCOTUS spot opens up. If that does eventually get overturned, then you have to actually have a Congress that's willing to pass a law that bans campaign contributions from anything other than a public fund. The GOP won't even blink an eye at that proposal. I'm guessing a lot of democrats won't either.

    Bernie is strong on ideals, and very light on actual solutions in today's political environment.
  • GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,165

    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    It's unfair to characterize insurance companies as the only winners from Obamacare. As with any public policy, there are winners and plenty of collateral damage. Before Obamacare, there were millions of Americans who were flat out denied healthcare coverage because they were too risky to insure. That problem has been effectively eliminated by the law. Of course, the natural economic effect of flooding a large pool of risky customers into the marketplace meant that many people saw increased premiums, and in some cases, they lost their doctor. The next step is to lower costs and address the massive amounts of waste that exist in the current system. If I had a policy proposal that could do that, I'd be working in DC right now.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 110,137 Founders Club

    It's unfair to characterize insurance companies as the only winners from Obamacare. As with any public policy, there are winners and plenty of collateral damage. Before Obamacare, there were millions of Americans who were flat out denied healthcare coverage because they were too risky to insure. That problem has been effectively eliminated by the law. Of course, the natural economic effect of flooding a large pool of risky customers into the marketplace meant that many people saw increased premiums, and in some cases, they lost their doctor. The next step is to lower costs and address the massive amounts of waste that exist in the current system. If I had a policy proposal that could do that, I'd be working in DC right now.
    We could have wrote a check to the folks who needed insurance or a doctor.

    The collateral damage is severe.
  • whatshouldicareaboutwhatshouldicareabout Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 12,949 Swaye's Wigwam

    Japan has single pay.

    http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

    There is a big difference between single, two-pay (what most of the countries you listed have), and insurance mandate (what the US has). Two-tier also has coverage for everyone through the government.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-single-payer-two-tier-and-insurance-mandate-healthcare-systems
    I'm late but Japan is misclassified as single.

    I'm lazy so here's wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    We could have wrote a check to the folks who needed insurance or a doctor.

    The collateral damage is severe.
    Or we could just go single payer and take profits out of people's health.

    Reality is that'll never happen because the insurance lobby.
  • allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771

    And that's yet another problem he can't solve, and even more smoke he's blowing up the asses of all of his supporters. Until Citizens United is overturned, nothing is going to change on that front. All he can do is appoint the most liberal justice available if a SCOTUS spot opens up. If that does eventually get overturned, then you have to actually have a Congress that's willing to pass a law that bans campaign contributions from anything other than a public fund. The GOP won't even blink an eye at that proposal. I'm guessing a lot of democrats won't either.

    Bernie is strong on ideals, and very light on actual solutions in today's political environment.
    It's almost like we need a political revolution or something.

    As long as people shrug their shoulders and say we can't, we won't.
  • GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,165

    It's almost like we need a political revolution or something.

    As long as people shrug their shoulders and say we can't, we won't.
    You're not going to get a revolution when such a large portion of our country finds the very idea of one appalling. Republicans will always control enough of Congress to stop any meaningful legislation from getting through. That's the reality of our political landscape. Bernie has no tools to deal with that.
  • doogsinparadisedoogsinparadise Member Posts: 9,320

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Incrementalism seems to work so well.
  • doogsinparadisedoogsinparadise Member Posts: 9,320

    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    This.
  • priapismpriapism Member Posts: 2,278
    edited February 2016
    @OZONE

    Repealing Glass-Steagall caused the latest Banking collapse and ended up costing the U.S. $6-8 trillion in eventual bailout, welfare damage and severely weakened the dollar via the new debt.

    The AMA, ABA, big pharma, and hospitals are making healthcare unaffordable. Both of my parents have had emergency room visits in the past decade, where the hospitals charged them over $350,000 each for heart issues and about 10 days each in the hospital. The current health system isn't sustainable and is being sucked dry (in a bad way) by the above culprits.

    Bernie is probably the only candidate who will actually tear apart these 2 broken systems. Everyone else in the field just seems to be owned by the above lobbyists = no change and more debt next year.
    All the rest of the candidates look like they would love to be the next CEO of Goldman Scams. $$$

    Taiwan is supposedly the healthcare system to model. 6% of GDP.
    http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2015/05/14-taiwan-national-healthcare-cheng
  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123

    He's a career politician, nuff said on that..
    True, but there seems to be a notable difference between Bernie and the Clinton's, Bush, Obama, and Trump. You can't get to the point Bernie has without a huge ego, but he's more genuinely concerned about the people in this country than the others. The Clinton's Bush's, Obama, and Trump are in it for the power and celebrity. Bernie probably is too, at least part of him, but it doesn't come off as desperate and pathetic like it does for the others.
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