Some WA State Teachers Are Striking

HFNY said:

You didn't try hard enough. For instance:

Stacie Ann Kang Ricard Highline School District Elementary Teacher $104,287 $21,550 $9,572 $135,409

$104,287 is this elementary's base salary, her "bonus" / stipend is $21,550, and her insurance / benefits are $9,572. Of course, this doesn't include her future pension costs or future health care costs.

The problem I have is that we have a bloated public school system with too many assistant principals and then teachers making significantly more than the average household income of Seattle (not WA State or the Puget Sound, but SEATTLE).

Teachers also get generous vacations and 3 months off in the summer. Exactly how do you explain that?

And of course I'm not jealous, who would want to wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and know that they are fleecing hard working regular Joes and Janes in the private sector who are struggling to make ends meet? To pay for their excessive compensation packages, your average Joe and Jane have to fork over more in taxes.

HuskyJW said:

I went through the first ten pages...I see no elementary teachers making close to 100K. Quite a few in the 20's and 30's

If teachers who teach your snotty kids to read and write shouldn't make a good salary...I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on who should. You want to pay teachers less and cut their benefits? Seems like a good model to attract top talent.....

Or are you jealous because you don't make very much and think others shouldn't either?

HFNY said:

No big deal, I am an entrepreneur and run my own business. My customers are my bosses but if I keep them happy, I can largely pick my own hours and do work whenever I want. Of course, the greater the risk, the greater the reward (time, money, and lifestyle). If my customers dry up, I'm stuck with inventory (and a mortgage) so I could go out of business in a matter of months if I can't sell.

I have to imagine that that the salary schedule is very general and there are ways around it, especially if one has been in the system awhile and knows how to game it. Anyway, the published numbers of her specific compensation package are more likely correct than a general schedule.

Returning to risk vs. reward, it is also absurd that someone in such a low risk job (teachers rarely get fired, even in a recession) merits such excessive compensation. Some people work year round and finally reach $130k in total pay yet can be laid-off in an instance if the economy tanks.

It used to be that public sector jobs used to offer tremendous stability and good benefits in return for lower pay. As the public sector unions have grown outsized in political influence, the pay is now excessive, the benefits have gone from good to great, and they still have the tremendous stability. Of course to pay for it, they raise taxes on people in the private sector...the ones with the tenuous job stability, the same pay for 12 months of work, and 401ks and higher co-pays instead of guaranteed pensions and low (or no) co-pays.

As Bill Gates might say, IT DOES NOT COMPUTE@!!#@!

HuskyJW said:

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high.

http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/lib07/WA01919413/Centricity/Domain/83/2013-14 Certificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf

HuskyJW said:

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high. Maybe the Principal was out for half the year and she served as Interim...I don't know. Maybe the data is wrong.

http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/lib07/WA01919413/Centricity/Domain/83/2013-14 Certificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf

The year before she made $53K....year before that she made $51K

HFNY said:

No big deal, I am an entrepreneur and run my own business. My customers are my bosses but if I keep them happy, I can largely pick my own hours and do work whenever I want. Of course, the greater the risk, the greater the reward (time, money, and lifestyle). If my customers dry up, I'm stuck with inventory (and a mortgage) so I could go out of business in a matter of months if I can't sell.

I have to imagine that that the salary schedule is very general and there are ways around it, especially if one has been in the system awhile and knows how to game it. Anyway, the published numbers of her specific compensation package are more likely correct than a general schedule.

Returning to risk vs. reward, it is also absurd that someone in such a low risk job (teachers rarely get fired, even in a recession) merits such excessive compensation. Some people work year round and finally reach $130k in total pay yet can be laid-off in an instance if the economy tanks.

It used to be that public sector jobs used to offer tremendous stability and good benefits in return for lower pay. As the public sector unions have grown outsized in political influence, the pay is now excessive, the benefits have gone from good to great, and they still have the tremendous stability. Of course to pay for it, they raise taxes on people in the private sector...the ones with the tenuous job stability, the same pay for 12 months of work, and 401ks and higher co-pays instead of guaranteed pensions and low (or no) co-pays.

As Bill Gates might say, IT DOES NOT COMPUTE@!!#@!

HuskyJW said:

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high.

http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/lib07/WA01919413/Centricity/Domain/83/2013-14 Certificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf

dflea said:

When I was a Senior in high school, my school offed to pay me 5 bones a day to tutor a group of 6 freshman paste-eaters who were failing, instead of taking one of my early-outs.

I agreed because 25 bones a week paid for beer.

At the end of the first quarter, the little donkeys were ALL getting better than C's in their classes - an increase of 2 full grade points. It's because they weren't stupid, their teachers were just fuckheads that failed to get through to them.

One Friday afternoon, I let the them bail out 5 minutes early to get on their way. Some administrator jackass saw them going across campus, and the following Monday I was called to the office. They said that because I had let these kids out early, they'd have to terminate my employment. I laughed right at the counselor's face and asked if they thought it was any skin off my ass if these kids went back to failing all their classes in spite of the 25K a year the school district was spending to educate them - and failing - when I was doing a better job for 25 bucks a week.

I went back to taking 2 early-out and buying my own beer and those kids likely went back to failing.

Since then, I still vote for school levies, but know that schools are doomed to fail because the administrators that operate them are complete fucktards, and no matter how good the teachers are - and most of them aren't - the kids are not going to get a good education no matter how many dollars rain down on them.

Of course, the senior leadership at my company are all fucktards, too, but at least we don;t ask the public for more money every year to continue being shitheads. Every so often, the stockholders demand that the fucktards' heads roll, and we get a new group of fuckin' idiots who find new ways to kill sales and not get the job done..............but it's never public money we piss away.

And THAT is the difference. You want to piss money away? Then piss away your own fuckin' money. Why I still vote for levies is beyond me. Too much alcohol abuse, I imagine.

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

It's way easier to teach rich and middle class kids than "at risk" kids. I went to a Seattle area private school for a few years and the education was good. I went to a public HS and It was mixed. In the ghetto classes, it basically sucked, though most of my math teachers did a good job considering. If they were actually allowed to really give consequences, or maybe bring back reform schools, that might help to keep discipline. You right wingers won't like this, but in the countries that score higher, there are more pre-k programs available too, and there's more upward mobility.

Yes, the tenure system and some of the unions are screwed up too.

It's a complex issue and most people would rather blame, watch a documentary, and call it a day instead of digging deeper.

greenblood said:

HFNY said:

No big deal, I am an entrepreneur and run my own business. My customers are my bosses but if I keep them happy, I can largely pick my own hours and do work whenever I want. Of course, the greater the risk, the greater the reward (time, money, and lifestyle). If my customers dry up, I'm stuck with inventory (and a mortgage) so I could go out of business in a matter of months if I can't sell.

I have to imagine that that the salary schedule is very general and there are ways around it, especially if one has been in the system awhile and knows how to game it. Anyway, the published numbers of her specific compensation package are more likely correct than a general schedule.

Returning to risk vs. reward, it is also absurd that someone in such a low risk job (teachers rarely get fired, even in a recession) merits such excessive compensation. Some people work year round and finally reach $130k in total pay yet can be laid-off in an instance if the economy tanks.

It used to be that public sector jobs used to offer tremendous stability and good benefits in return for lower pay. As the public sector unions have grown outsized in political influence, the pay is now excessive, the benefits have gone from good to great, and they still have the tremendous stability. Of course to pay for it, they raise taxes on people in the private sector...the ones with the tenuous job stability, the same pay for 12 months of work, and 401ks and higher co-pays instead of guaranteed pensions and low (or no) co-pays.

As Bill Gates might say, IT DOES NOT COMPUTE@!!#@!

HuskyJW said:

I wasn't being personal...I read your post as saying you are a hard working employee in the private sector struggling to make ends meet. So I pointed out the fact you are posting on the internet in the middle of the work day. Apologies if that is incorrect.

Nice to have a job where you can get paid and be on the internet huh. (insert faggoty wink here)

I am not a teacher nor a public employee in Washington.

I did find the salary schedule and hers doesn't match at all.....so somebody is wrong. Have no clue how her base is allegedly that high.

http://www.highlineschools.org/cms/lib07/WA01919413/Centricity/Domain/83/2013-14 Certificated Salary Schedule w-TRI 2013-08-27.pdf

From 2009-2010 Oregon actually let go about 20% of teachers. Last year was the first year since 2008 the majority of districts actually added staff. Oregon may be different than Washington, but I'll tell you the biggest issue isn't the teachers, it's mostly the administration and the union. Many teachers actually disagree with what most of the union does, but as a required member of said union, they really can't do anything about it. Except for voting in new reps. Kind of like how us citizen vote in a competent congress......good luck with that.

There are a lot of good teachers out there and a lot of bad ones. Unfortunately, the union mainly supports the teachers that shouldn't be supported, because the hard working, good work ethics teachers don't need a union. Like most unions, the teacher union governs through the notion of senority rules. So if you are a language arts teacher of 20 years, and spend 3/4 of the year showing "The Lion King", "Beauty and the Beast", "Babe", etc. in class you're still higher on the totem pole than a honest hardworking teacher 5 years in.

I strongly encourage you all to watch the movie "Waiting for Superman". It basically shows mostly everything that is wrong with our education system.

The hardworking teachers earn what they get paid. It's the other half that abuse the union system and milk off the backs of others, with the support of a union the makes it as difficult as possible to fix.