Offensive Depth for Spring
Comments
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Being fast doesn't mean you can just get open by running a fly route every single time. I personally feel his potential is so much greater as a corner.
His get off on the line is not good, he doesn't run good routes at all and he doesn't block well.
I like him coming in for a few plays on offense when it is tough for the defense to recognize in a no huddle situation. Much easier to fit his skills on offense when you do that with him. -
Ross would outrun cyler's range. If the qb can get him the ball deep (like the hawaii game
) then he needs to be a wr. If not (god help us) then he stays at corner, where the nfl money is better. -
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though. -
There is bias in breaking down his stats into those two categories and arriving at those conclusions.Dardanus said:
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though.
A more appropriate analysis would be to look at where the ball was thrown and what Ross did with the ball after the catch (YAC). For example, in the Apple Cup, Lindquist threw a 50 yard bomb to Ross in the end zone and dropped it, yet that incompletion is not listened in the >50 yard category and placed in the <50 yard category. Additionally, two of those >50 yard plays were TDs that he had were caught at the LOS and turned into TDs.
(play at 1:35): http://www.gohuskies.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3470227&db_oem_id=30200
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQxHGaUdkD0
I think it'd be better to look at throwing the ball to Ross between the LOS to 5 yards down field, 6-19 yards, and 20+ yards to get a better idea of how he is in the short and intermediate game, because as those three examples show, there is incomplete information in how that data is presented and used.
As for the third downs, we were 40.7% on third last year. However, all those thirds listed for Ross were third and long, meaning we shouldn't compare those third and longs to overall third down percentage, since third and long will usually have a much lower percentage than third and medium and third and short. Hell, going 3/4 with an average of 7.6 yards on third down would be pretty damn good if not for the fact that they were third and 14s and third and 22s in there. -
Re incomplete passes: I have no way of knowing whether incomplete passes were 50 yard bombs or bubble screens because that information is not recorded (which I already said, fucko). But I do agree that it's not really fair to determine his short/intermediate game isn't good because we don't have enough info.whatshouldicareabout said:
There is bias in breaking down his stats into those two categories and arriving at those conclusions.Dardanus said:
Above you can see Ross' receiving stats for 2014. They are separated into two categories: gains over and under 50 yards. He is clearly a home run threat, with a majority of his receiving yards being on plays > 50 yards.
The non-big play stats are not bad, but not great either. I'm not throwing out his big plays to make a poont, just separating to evaluate. Note: the 11 incomplete passes could be split between over/under 50 yards...there is no record of how many yards incomplete passes are.
One interesting thing I found (shown above) is that Ross was targeted four times on 3rd down (3 receptions, one incomplete). Of those 3 receptions, UW needed 14, 22, and 8 yards for a first down, while the completions were for 1, 16, and 6 yards, respectively. Meaning, of the four targets on 3rd down, ZERO resulted in a first down. Of course..QB, Jonathan Schmith, blocking, other receivers not being open, injuries, climate change, Ossai, etc. could ALL be factors in determining why UW didn't convert on first down.
I would say that Ross's elusiveness and speed makes him a deep/big-play threat, but in short or intermediate yardage situations he is not a guy you want to rely on. Definitely worth three wins all by himself, though.
A more appropriate analysis would be to look at where the ball was thrown and what Ross did with the ball after the catch (YAC). For example, in the Apple Cup, Lindquist threw a 50 yard bomb to Ross in the end zone and dropped it, yet that incompletion is not listened in the >50 yard category and placed in the <50 yard category. Additionally, two of those >50 yard plays were TDs that he had were caught at the LOS and turned into TDs.
(play at 1:35): http://www.gohuskies.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3470227&db_oem_id=30200
andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQxHGaUdkD0
I think it'd be better to look at throwing the ball to Ross between the LOS to 5 yards down field, 6-19 yards, and 20+ yards to get a better idea of how he is in the short and intermediate game, because as those three examples show, there is incomplete information in how that data is presented and used.
As for the third downs, we were 40.7% on third last year. However, all those thirds listed for Ross were third and long, meaning we shouldn't compare those third and longs to overall third down percentage, since third and long will usually have a much lower percentage than third and medium and third and short. Hell, going 3/4 with an average of 7.6 yards on third down would be pretty damn good if not for the fact that they were third and 14s and third and 22s in there.
YAC is a good measure, but unfortunately I don't have any of that data. I'd love to look at it if you could point me to a good source, though.
I understand and agree that 3rd down conversion rate is low, especially on 3rd and long. 3rd down conversion rate on plays to Ross were especially low (0%). -
I'm enjoying this thread and see both sides....may I suggest a 7/11 slap fight;)
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Its really not that hard to cover a guy, no matter how fast, when he's only ever a threat on deep balls. Also, getting open against a zone defense has always been about more than just speed. I like Ross at CB and kick returner.
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My argument is based on his performance on the football field. Novel concept, I know.NeGgaPlEaSe said:
I can tell this is going nowhere fast, you have no basis in your FS argument. Again, the guy can not be covered by one person, he's too fast. You comparing Ross to Hooker is getting Doogman FS. The Reggie Williams comparison was horrible, but the Hooker comparison is FS. Ross is shifty and fast and a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball. Don't forget he was injured early in the season and had surgery. He played the season on a bad wheel and still was the fastest player on the field. Saying he wasn't open because there is an entire defense keying on him because there is no run game, no tight end and no blocking is beyond FSRavennaDawg said:
Again, I compare John Ross to a guy who was a poor wide receiver despite being an all-time great kickoff returner and an Olympic Bronze Medalist in the 200, and you respond with "...look at his speed".NeGgaPlEaSe said:RavennaDawg said:I make two posts comparing the guy to an NFL All-Decade kickoff returner, while claiming he is not very good at wide receiver.
You respond by showing a clip of him returning a kickoff.
Actually I said look at his speed by showing the video. There is probably 1 or 2 corners who can actually stay with him in D1. Saying he is not very good at wide receiver because he can't get open is Section14aFS.
You do know that when Hooker entered the Husky HOF last year, it was not for football?
Getting open and catching the ball is kinda the entire point of being a wide receiver. If Ross can use his speed to get open, as I am sure he did in highschool, that is great. If he is in a situation where his speed cannot get him open, then he is in trouble.
JaWarren Hooker could not be covered by one person. He was too fast. Sam Graddy/Ron Brown/Renaldo Neihmiah/Jonny Lam Jones/Michael Bates could not be covered by one person. They were too fast. Fast, but not very good wide receivers.
The guy is great at returning kickoffs. He is very fast. He is not a very good wide receiver. As you so astutely pointed out, he is "a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball". It's the getting the ball that is his problem. When the other team literally kicks the ball to him, and gives him a 60 yard head start, he can make plays.
Reggie Williams could get open. Not as fast. There is more to being a receiver than being a track star.
No one is disputing your thesis that John Ross is fast.
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RavennaDawg said:
My argument is based on his performance on the football field. Novel concept, I know.NeGgaPlEaSe said:
I can tell this is going nowhere fast, you have no basis in your FS argument. Again, the guy can not be covered by one person, he's too fast. You comparing Ross to Hooker is getting Doogman FS. The Reggie Williams comparison was horrible, but the Hooker comparison is FS. Ross is shifty and fast and a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball. Don't forget he was injured early in the season and had surgery. He played the season on a bad wheel and still was the fastest player on the field. Saying he wasn't open because there is an entire defense keying on him because there is no run game, no tight end and no blocking is beyond FSRavennaDawg said:
Again, I compare John Ross to a guy who was a poor wide receiver despite being an all-time great kickoff returner and an Olympic Bronze Medalist in the 200, and you respond with "...look at his speed".NeGgaPlEaSe said:RavennaDawg said:I make two posts comparing the guy to an NFL All-Decade kickoff returner, while claiming he is not very good at wide receiver.
You respond by showing a clip of him returning a kickoff.
Actually I said look at his speed by showing the video. There is probably 1 or 2 corners who can actually stay with him in D1. Saying he is not very good at wide receiver because he can't get open is Section14aFS.
You do know that when Hooker entered the Husky HOF last year, it was not for football?
Getting open and catching the ball is kinda the entire point of being a wide receiver. If Ross can use his speed to get open, as I am sure he did in highschool, that is great. If he is in a situation where his speed cannot get him open, then he is in trouble.
JaWarren Hooker could not be covered by one person. He was too fast. Sam Graddy/Ron Brown/Renaldo Neihmiah/Jonny Lam Jones/Michael Bates could not be covered by one person. They were too fast. Fast, but not very good wide receivers.
The guy is great at returning kickoffs. He is very fast. He is not a very good wide receiver. As you so astutely pointed out, he is "a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the ball". It's the getting the ball that is his problem. When the other team literally kicks the ball to him, and gives him a 60 yard head start, he can make plays.
Reggie Williams could get open. Not as fast. There is more to being a receiver than being a track star.
No one is disputing your thesis that John Ross is fast.
Fast/ quick? two entirely different things.... If you said Ross can't get off the fucking line you might have a halfway valid argument. But with the PAC 12 refs and the holding calls, guess what? Getting open in a zone? Well having a Qb who can't throw the ball into Lake Washington without hitting the Yacht club first may play a part in that. Or a running game that no one respects -
Well if Ross isn't a good route runner, why did he play outside WR 90% of the time? The QB's last year could rarely get the ball out there anyways.
