Fetters baseball knowledge even worse than his football knowledge.
Hahahahaha. I like to compare a underachieving/always injured outfielder to a future multi all star one. It is what I like to do.
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Ryan Divish Ryan Divish @RyanDivish 21h
@Chris_Fetters -- seriously that is an absurd premise.
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favorite response to that tweet.ThomasFremont said:
Ryan Divish Ryan Divish @RyanDivish 21h
@Chris_Fetters -- seriously that is an absurd premise.
View conversation · -
What's funny about that is that it isn't Joe Public calling out F3, it's his fellow "media" colleagues.
Apparently the only person that loves Saunders more than F3 is Churchill. -
Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls. -
They clearly value and respect him...Tequilla said:What's funny about that is that it isn't Joe Public calling out F3, it's his fellow "media" colleagues.
Apparently the only person that loves Saunders more than F3 is Churchill. -
Thing about the trade is that the Mariners had limited depth in the rotation in the upper minors. They were going to need to sign a pitcher (at minimum) if they needed to use one of the young arms for trade. Moreover, it is a GIANT risk to go into the season with 3 young starters that have never started and completed a full MLB season.
Happ might not be great - but he tends to get hurt by the long ball. That should be mitigated a bit at Safeco - see Young, Chris. Additionally, he has experience pitching some in relief and can fill a role as the long man in the pen such that he's on standby IF there's a problem in the rotation. -
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
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The money is the only thing that makes it a "bad" trade.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
A back of the rotation SP is more important than a 4th OF who can't hit.
Roster cost efficiency aside, I think this helps the team. If they don't make another move, it won't be because of Happ's contract. -
It is far from a bad trade. Marinera have hardly any depth in the starting rotation and Saunders is too inconsistent with his injuries and his play to be worth it. We are trading an average hitter and bringing in a reliable starter into a pitchers park. It's not a bad/good trade really.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
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So does this mean Saunders goes on to win the batting crown?
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Happ makes $6.7M in 2015 and then becomes a free agent.ThomasFremont said:
The money is the only thing that makes it a "bad" trade.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
A back of the rotation SP is more important than a 4th OF who can't hit.
Roster cost efficiency aside, I think this helps the team. If they don't make another move, it won't be because of Happ's contract.
Saunders is arbitration eligible after a year making $2.3M. He's due for a raise that will put him in the $4M+ range would be my guess.
So the difference in money is only $2-3M.
Many would disagree that Saunders can't hit ... probably more fair to talk about the fact that he never stays healthy. In an ideal world, a good team has a player like Saunders in the 4th OF slot to cover any issues. But the bridges clearly appeared to be burned from both sides.
Given the youth in the rotation and the lack of arms in the minors, it is imperative that the Mariners find another arm for the rotation that they can count on to make 20-30 starts if needed. Added bonus here is that Happ has pitched a bit in the pen before and at this point of his career probably understands his spot on the roster. -
"Many"??? REALLY?Tequilla said:
Happ makes $6.7M in 2015 and then becomes a free agent.ThomasFremont said:
The money is the only thing that makes it a "bad" trade.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
A back of the rotation SP is more important than a 4th OF who can't hit.
Roster cost efficiency aside, I think this helps the team. If they don't make another move, it won't be because of Happ's contract.
Saunders is arbitration eligible after a year making $2.3M. He's due for a raise that will put him in the $4M+ range would be my guess.
So the difference in money is only $2-3M.
Many would disagree that Saunders can't hit ... probably more fair to talk about the fact that he never stays healthy. In an ideal world, a good team has a player like Saunders in the 4th OF slot to cover any issues. But the bridges clearly appeared to be burned from both sides.
Given the youth in the rotation and the lack of arms in the minors, it is imperative that the Mariners find another arm for the rotation that they can count on to make 20-30 starts if needed. Added bonus here is that Happ has pitched a bit in the pen before and at this point of his career probably understands his spot on the roster.
Disagree. -
Jason Churchill for one ... he's the biggest Saunders lover I've ever seen.
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He played 139 games in 2012 and 135 games in 2013. He was available for 100 games in 2014 please stop with this "he never stays healthy" garbage.Tequilla said:
Happ makes $6.7M in 2015 and then becomes a free agent.ThomasFremont said:
The money is the only thing that makes it a "bad" trade.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
A back of the rotation SP is more important than a 4th OF who can't hit.
Roster cost efficiency aside, I think this helps the team. If they don't make another move, it won't be because of Happ's contract.
Saunders is arbitration eligible after a year making $2.3M. He's due for a raise that will put him in the $4M+ range would be my guess.
So the difference in money is only $2-3M.
Many would disagree that Saunders can't hit ... probably more fair to talk about the fact that he never stays healthy. In an ideal world, a good team has a player like Saunders in the 4th OF slot to cover any issues. But the bridges clearly appeared to be burned from both sides.
Given the youth in the rotation and the lack of arms in the minors, it is imperative that the Mariners find another arm for the rotation that they can count on to make 20-30 starts if needed. Added bonus here is that Happ has pitched a bit in the pen before and at this point of his career probably understands his spot on the roster.
Also he's been an average hitter since 2012, so "he can't hit" is also a fucktarded statement.
Terrible trade, but the comparison is fucktarded
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Churchill is one of the better analysts out thereTequilla said:What's funny about that is that it isn't Joe Public calling out F3, it's his fellow "media" colleagues.
Apparently the only person that loves Saunders more than F3 is Churchill.
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It sucks when you are on Twatter and can't censor the disagreeing opinions and when people call you out on your BS.
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Generally I like Churchill ... but I do feel at times that he goes square peg and square hole with his viewpoints.
No question that Saunders was a useful player. I would have liked to have kept him as a 4th OF. I don't think that he was going to have the massive breakout (at least not in Seattle) that everybody thinks that is in his corner thinks he's capable of. And if he does have that breakout in Toronto, to me it's not as easy as saying "see, told you so" if that happens. Professionally, it was probably good for him to leave Seattle and get a fresh start - so good for him on that.
The areas that I get really frustrated with Churchill on things is when it comes to putting a plan together and then being prepared to do A if you know you can pull off B. For example, take a player like Justin Upton. If I knew that I could make a deal with him and get him to sign a contract extension before free agency, I would be prepared to give up more to get that deal done than I would if I was taking the player on for a year and then was going to lose the player.
Or, what is probably more appropriate in the case of Happ, this is a deal that will need to be considered in the context of what will probably be another deal that takes place to add one more hitter that will come at the expense of either Walker or Paxton. It's very possible that moving Saunders in that deal wasn't realistic, but this was a move that was required in the context of the bigger picture. -
Can't hit? This isn't 2003 anymore. A .791 OPS in a pitcher's park is well above average. Even if you think his true talent is more like .740, that's still above major league average. Considering he's an above average defensive outfielder as well that's a valuable piece. He's not a superstar, but he's better than JA Happ's ever been and that's before you factor he makes less money and has more years of team control.ThomasFremont said:
The money is the only thing that makes it a "bad" trade.dnc said:
It's a bad trade. But the comparison is CFFS.CuntWaffle said:Saunders is average at best. Happ is pretty average too but put him in Safeco and he could have a solid season.
Comparing this trade to possibly the worst trade ever in the history of the Mariners organization is beyond fucking stupid. Stick to your faggy sport their hot air balloon overalls.
A back of the rotation SP is more important than a 4th OF who can't hit.
Roster cost efficiency aside, I think this helps the team. If they don't make another move, it won't be because of Happ's contract.
It's a bad trade.
And yes Saunders is a bit injury prone. But Happ's never thrown over 166 innings in his career. He's not exactly a workhorse either.
Bad trade. Not an Adam Jones level disaster. But it's a bad trade. Especially once you consider the M's have no outfielders and plenty of pitchers, and that hitting is much harder to bring to Seattle than pitching is. Bad trade on every level. -
I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed. -
you don't know if Upton will sign a contract extension though. That is a completely seperate issue from the tradeTequilla said:Generally I like Churchill ... but I do feel at times that he goes square peg and square hole with his viewpoints.
No question that Saunders was a useful player. I would have liked to have kept him as a 4th OF. I don't think that he was going to have the massive breakout (at least not in Seattle) that everybody thinks that is in his corner thinks he's capable of. And if he does have that breakout in Toronto, to me it's not as easy as saying "see, told you so" if that happens. Professionally, it was probably good for him to leave Seattle and get a fresh start - so good for him on that.
The areas that I get really frustrated with Churchill on things is when it comes to putting a plan together and then being prepared to do A if you know you can pull off B. For example, take a player like Justin Upton. If I knew that I could make a deal with him and get him to sign a contract extension before free agency, I would be prepared to give up more to get that deal done than I would if I was taking the player on for a year and then was going to lose the player.
Or, what is probably more appropriate in the case of Happ, this is a deal that will need to be considered in the context of what will probably be another deal that takes place to add one more hitter that will come at the expense of either Walker or Paxton. It's very possible that moving Saunders in that deal wasn't realistic, but this was a move that was required in the context of the bigger picture.
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Jones is pretty bad, he can steal you a base but other than that he's of no value (offensively or defensively)Tequilla said:I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed.
With Cruz already occupying the DH slot I'd rather see them sacrifice a bit of offense to get someone who projects well defensively. Than spend on someone like cabrera who can hit but is likely going to be an albatross in RF down the road if he isn't already.
Someone like heyward would have been perfect, but he's already been dealt.
I think the guy they do get is completely off the radar ATM
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Entirely not true.dhdawg said:
you don't know if Upton will sign a contract extension though. That is a completely seperate issue from the tradeTequilla said:Generally I like Churchill ... but I do feel at times that he goes square peg and square hole with his viewpoints.
No question that Saunders was a useful player. I would have liked to have kept him as a 4th OF. I don't think that he was going to have the massive breakout (at least not in Seattle) that everybody thinks that is in his corner thinks he's capable of. And if he does have that breakout in Toronto, to me it's not as easy as saying "see, told you so" if that happens. Professionally, it was probably good for him to leave Seattle and get a fresh start - so good for him on that.
The areas that I get really frustrated with Churchill on things is when it comes to putting a plan together and then being prepared to do A if you know you can pull off B. For example, take a player like Justin Upton. If I knew that I could make a deal with him and get him to sign a contract extension before free agency, I would be prepared to give up more to get that deal done than I would if I was taking the player on for a year and then was going to lose the player.
Or, what is probably more appropriate in the case of Happ, this is a deal that will need to be considered in the context of what will probably be another deal that takes place to add one more hitter that will come at the expense of either Walker or Paxton. It's very possible that moving Saunders in that deal wasn't realistic, but this was a move that was required in the context of the bigger picture.
As the club making the deal, you have the ability to request a negotiating window prior to agreeing to a trade. That doesn't mean that the request will be honored, or a contract extension agreed upon. The Red Sox made such a request when contemplating the Adrian Gonzalez trade.
You absolutely have the right as the club making a deal to pursue a contract with a player and have that decision influence whether you're willing to make a deal or not. That's basic negotiating. -
I feel that what the lineup is missing is a 4 or 6 right handed hitter to slot between either Cano/Seager or Seager/Morrison.dhdawg said:
Jones is pretty bad, he can steal you a base but other than that he's of no value (offensively or defensively)Tequilla said:I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed.
With Cruz already occupying the DH slot I'd rather see them sacrifice a bit of offense to get someone who projects well defensively. Than spend on someone like cabrera who can hit but is likely going to be an albatross in RF down the road if he isn't already.
Someone like heyward would have been perfect, but he's already been dealt.
I think the guy they do get is completely off the radar ATM
While Melky would be a definite upgrade at the top of the order, the implication of that would be that Jackson drops to 6th in the order. My worry about dropping Jackson to this spot would be that it would be too easy for teams to pitch around Seager at that point. If you have Cruz or a better hitter than Jackson at 6, then I feel like your lineup is lengthened properly. -
absolutely. however that doesn't mean you should sacrifice defense in order to do that. The guy you acquire can still hit a legitimate 6th AND play at least league average defense, just means you pay a bit more. And if jack z doesn't want to pay up, tough, he chose to deal saunders
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Why the hell would the Mariners need defense? They have historically had the most dreck offense for awhile. They NEED more offense, defense is the leads of your worries in the outfield in the MLB. There are so many players in the minors that could play amazing defense, the few that make it up do so because they can HIT.dhdawg said:
Jones is pretty bad, he can steal you a base but other than that he's of no value (offensively or defensively)Tequilla said:I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed.
With Cruz already occupying the DH slot I'd rather see them sacrifice a bit of offense to get someone who projects well defensively. Than spend on someone like cabrera who can hit but is likely going to be an albatross in RF down the road if he isn't already.
Someone like heyward would have been perfect, but he's already been dealt.
I think the guy they do get is completely off the radar ATM
The Mariners are going to get another outfielder that is clearly obvious. If they don't id agree this trade is not in their favor, but it is clearly obvious they are playing to win this year.
The relationship with Saunders was shitty and his role on the team with an added OF would diminish more. They needed depth in the rotation. Do you really want Erasimo Ramierez getting starts if Kuma or someone gets hurt? Fuck no! This also will allow Walker to develop a little better by starting the year in the Bullpen exactly like how Chris Sale started his career.
This move makes complete sense because the Mariners will get a better outfielder. Fuck defense, if I want defense I'll go watch the Seahawks. In baseball you need to hit the ball and I'll take A player like Melkys bat over Saunders defense.
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If they sign Melky it's fine. If they deal Walker (which is what i expect), it's not fine.CuntWaffle said:
Why the hell would the Mariners need defense? They have historically had the most dreck offense for awhile. They NEED more offense, defense is the leads of your worries in the outfield in the MLB. There are so many players in the minors that could play amazing defense, the few that make it up do so because they can HIT.dhdawg said:
Jones is pretty bad, he can steal you a base but other than that he's of no value (offensively or defensively)Tequilla said:I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed.
With Cruz already occupying the DH slot I'd rather see them sacrifice a bit of offense to get someone who projects well defensively. Than spend on someone like cabrera who can hit but is likely going to be an albatross in RF down the road if he isn't already.
Someone like heyward would have been perfect, but he's already been dealt.
I think the guy they do get is completely off the radar ATM
The Mariners are going to get another outfielder that is clearly obvious. If they don't id agree this trade is not in their favor, but it is clearly obvious they are playing to win this year.
The relationship with Saunders was shitty and his role on the team with an added OF would diminish more. They needed depth in the rotation. Do you really want Erasimo Ramierez getting starts if Kuma or someone gets hurt? Fuck no! This also will allow Walker to develop a little better by starting the year in the Bullpen exactly like how Chris Sale started his career.
This move makes complete sense because the Mariners will get a better outfielder. Fuck defense, if I want defense I'll go watch the Seahawks. In baseball you need to hit the ball and I'll take A player like Melkys bat over Saunders defense.
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No one is saying tha player shouldn't be good offensively. But I'd really rather not sign defensive albatross's like Cabrera to a 4/5 year deal. Sacrificing defense for offense didn't work in 2012CuntWaffle said:
Why the hell would the Mariners need defense? They have historically had the most dreck offense for awhile. They NEED more offense, defense is the leads of your worries in the outfield in the MLB. There are so many players in the minors that could play amazing defense, the few that make it up do so because they can HIT.dhdawg said:
Jones is pretty bad, he can steal you a base but other than that he's of no value (offensively or defensively)Tequilla said:I've heard that the money is being equalized by Toronto ... so that's not a huge issue in this deal.
I think you have to assume that the Mariners are planning on getting another OFer.
There's also the thought of what to do with DJ Peterson when he's ready ... LoMo can play some of the OF.
And while Saunders is clearly better than Jones, Jones isn't terrible as a 4th OF given that he's the biggest speed threat on a roster that right now is moving a bit away from speed.
With Cruz already occupying the DH slot I'd rather see them sacrifice a bit of offense to get someone who projects well defensively. Than spend on someone like cabrera who can hit but is likely going to be an albatross in RF down the road if he isn't already.
Someone like heyward would have been perfect, but he's already been dealt.
I think the guy they do get is completely off the radar ATM
The Mariners are going to get another outfielder that is clearly obvious. If they don't id agree this trade is not in their favor, but it is clearly obvious they are playing to win this year.
The relationship with Saunders was shitty and his role on the team with an added OF would diminish more. They needed depth in the rotation. Do you really want Erasimo Ramierez getting starts if Kuma or someone gets hurt? Fuck no! This also will allow Walker to develop a little better by starting the year in the Bullpen exactly like how Chris Sale started his career.
This move makes complete sense because the Mariners will get a better outfielder. Fuck defense, if I want defense I'll go watch the Seahawks. In baseball you need to hit the ball and I'll take A player like Melkys bat over Saunders defense. -
This a great trade. Even if Happ doesn't pitch an inning, the fact that Saunders and Choak are no longer in the lineup automatically makes this team better.
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As baseball continues drifting in a direction of a greater number of strikeouts, the importance of defense on the field will decrease. Defense is tremendously important if the ball is routinely getting put in play. If pitching is creating outs without the ball being put in play, the importance of defense goes way down.
Last year, the Mariners averaged over 8 K's per 9 innings. That only leaves 19 outs per game for the team to get with the defense. One would expect this to go up with some of the young pitchers who are better K options than the guys that they replaced, probably an upgrade over Young, and no more fill ins like Erasimo.
This chart/table is very interesting: http://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/stats/pitching-ground-balls-to-fly-balls-allowed-ratio-leaders/2014/
Felix is a well known ground ball pitcher. The numbers state that he's going to get 2.5 grounders for every fly ball (and what percentage of those fly balls are routine cans of corn compared to difficult defensive plays for an OFer?). Likewise, Kuma rates as a ground ball pitcher getting close to 2 grounders for every 1 fly ball.
A name that keeps getting tossed around is Brandon McCarthy - and he's another extreme ground ball pitcher. Another guy towards the top of that list is Francisco Liriano as well.
You have GG caliber players in Cano and Seager defensively. Both Taylor and Miller are reasonable defenders at SS. LoMo's probably below average as an OFer but not that far away from average as a 1B. In the OF, you have decent options in Ackley and Jackson as it is. RF is by far the one place in the Safeco OF where you can hide a so-so defender.
Bottom line to me is that you can probably get away with having 1 or 2 so-so defenders in your lineup when you consider the makeup of your staff being heavily slanted towards K's (almost 1 per inning) and heavy ground ball pitchers. -
It was a shitty trade. I hope the M's keep Walker and Paxton. I would rather take chances that those two could be top of the line starters than acquire a 5 like Happ. Felix, Iwakuma, Elias, Walker, and Paxton is a good rotation. Sign another journeyman like they did Young for some depth. McClendon also talked about Wilhelmson maybe becoming a starter. Lots of shitty pitchers can be average pitching half their games at Safeco. There is no need to acquire one for $6.7 million. Even if the Blue Jays are evening the salaries, it's stupid.
Saunders is a decent player and the Mariners need every bat they can get. Having Logan Morrison be your everyday 1B is a recipe for disaster. I liked having Saunders around because Ackley may revert back to sucking and Jackson did terrible once the Mariners acquired him. There are too many guys in the lineup who are capable of having terrible seasons.
