Fetters baseball knowledge even worse than his football knowledge.
Comments
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That's why you can't look at a single deal without seeing the big picture.
The Mariners were 87-75 last year. Missed the playoffs by a single game.
They scored 2 runs or less in 60 games ... they went 8-52 in those games.
In games they scored 3 or more runs in ... they went 79-23.
You don't need a degree in math to realize that their biggest problem last year was their inability to score runs on a consistent basis. 2 runs or less in 60 games is ridiculous. I get that it's still going to happen 30-40 times per year. But get to 2 runs in those games ... 39 of the 60 games they didn't even do that.
Happ wasn't brought in to be a main part of this rotation. He was brought in to build depth in the rotation to be able to withstand an injury, future trade, lack of performance, etc.
Saunders was a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't need him. Happ will be a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't have others that can do a comparable job.
Those that follow the Mariners can be very myopic at times. -
If they would have played Saunders down the stretch they would have had that extra win they needed.Tequilla said:That's why you can't look at a single deal without seeing the big picture.
The Mariners were 87-75 last year. Missed the playoffs by a single game.
They scored 2 runs or less in 60 games ... they went 8-52 in those games.
In games they scored 3 or more runs in ... they went 79-23.
You don't need a degree in math to realize that their biggest problem last year was their inability to score runs on a consistent basis. 2 runs or less in 60 games is ridiculous. I get that it's still going to happen 30-40 times per year. But get to 2 runs in those games ... 39 of the 60 games they didn't even do that.
Happ wasn't brought in to be a main part of this rotation. He was brought in to build depth in the rotation to be able to withstand an injury, future trade, lack of performance, etc.
Saunders was a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't need him. Happ will be a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't have others that can do a comparable job.
Those that follow the Mariners can be very myopic at times.
hth -
That's fucking BS and comes straight out of the Churchill talking points on Saunders ... they put themselves in a position to be where they needed to be and lost a 3 game series to Oakland and then had a run of games in late September where the pitching fell apart over a series of a 4-5 games. I absolutely laugh at those that say that "all 162 games are equal" blah blah blah stuff. Yes, they count the same in the standings. No, they aren't managed or played in the same manner. Games in September absolutely carry more weight than games in May. Those that don't get that are those that probably have never played sports. You spend your season putting yourself in a position to compete for championships. Your season then is judged on your ability to win when it matters most.dnc said:
If they would have played Saunders down the stretch they would have had that extra win they needed.Tequilla said:That's why you can't look at a single deal without seeing the big picture.
The Mariners were 87-75 last year. Missed the playoffs by a single game.
They scored 2 runs or less in 60 games ... they went 8-52 in those games.
In games they scored 3 or more runs in ... they went 79-23.
You don't need a degree in math to realize that their biggest problem last year was their inability to score runs on a consistent basis. 2 runs or less in 60 games is ridiculous. I get that it's still going to happen 30-40 times per year. But get to 2 runs in those games ... 39 of the 60 games they didn't even do that.
Happ wasn't brought in to be a main part of this rotation. He was brought in to build depth in the rotation to be able to withstand an injury, future trade, lack of performance, etc.
Saunders was a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't need him. Happ will be a luxury on this team going forward in an area where we really don't have others that can do a comparable job.
Those that follow the Mariners can be very myopic at times.
hth
You don't build a team to be "just good enough" to make the playoffs. Doing that sets you up for unexpected downturns and increases your risk of failure.
For those criticizing this deal, the major miss is trying to figure our where would Saunders play on this team next year? There will be another move for an OF. They have Cruz to DH. They probably aren't playing him over Jackson or Ackley. So where does he play?
Moreover, while you need to build the best 25 (and really 30-35) man roster for the regular season, postseason play comes down to your top 17 to 18 players, particularly in the AL. It's your starting 9, your 3-4 starting pitchers, and your top 3-5 relief pitchers. The bench guys MAY get a spot here and there. But the 5th OF or 6th SP probably isn't making a dent in October anyway. At that point, you're better off figuring out how a 5th OF or 6th SP better helps you April-September. -
Have you guys actually watched Walker pitch? He has talent but he is so inconsistent right now. They guy fucking walks almost as many batters as he will strike out. Paxton is superior in every way and if you can get Upton or Kemp for Walker you fucking doing it. I like him out of the bullpen but holy Christ is he a lot more sizzle than steak right now.
As far as LoMo goes did you guys actually watch the Mariners last season? LoMO started to bang the ball around after and extremely slow start. He was one of the more clutch hitters down the stretch. It is far from a disaster having him at 1B and if he ends up shitting the bed early then DJ Peterson might get a crack to see what he could do.
Jackson had a bad half season for the Mariners but his overall body of work is decent and if there is a position in the OF you want defense it is CF and Jackson is onenis the best.
The money in Happs deal is so moot because of no salary it means jack shit in the grand scheme of things as it isn't long term and only this year. It won't stop the Mariners from making their next big deal with someone.
Seriously do any of you actually watch the Mariners or even baseball regularly? -
If I was betting on a player going forward, I'd bet on LoMo before I'd bet on Saunders - particularly for 2015.
Moreover, if you look at the path of the Mariners tops prospects:
Alex Jackson will be an OF and probably will be pushing for a spot in the Bigs in 2017.
Peterson will be ready by no later than the beginning of 2016 ... he's a corner guy all the way.
Gabby Guerrero is an OF that could be pushing for a spot in the 2016-2017 time period. Same for Austin Wilson.
Patrick Kivelhan is in the same boat as Peterson - but may have the ability to also play some OF. Another 2016 guy.
Ketel Marte is probably a 2016 guy as well - might even have a higher ceiling than both Miller or Taylor. If nothing else, it makes it more likely that one of those two are expendable.
Point being that when you look through what the organizational depth is of the Mariners, there's a lot of OF prospects on the way. Saunders is a pure luxury. The organization lacks in SP's right now as they've focused on building up the bats. It's why the trade made some sense - regardless of whether you want to argue whether they could have got better than Happ. The point is that the deal itself made sense.
The other thing that makes a lot of sense when you look at the organizational depth is that it makes it that much more reasonable for the Mariners to have some high end contracts on their roster as they SHOULD be able to plug/play a lot of young players into the lineup making the league minimum.
Finally, by building the lineup properly today, you're bringing the next generation up to the majors in a position where not a lot is being asked of them. It allows them to settle in and not worry so much about the 0-4 with 3 K's that they'll have as a rookie because they are hitting 8th or 9th in the order. It sounds crazy to people that don't remember, but there was a time when a young Manny Ramirez used to hit 8th for the Indians. Of course, Manny could hit a ton and all of that and I'm sure he would have been successful regardless. But at the same time, when you can plug the young kids into your lineup and allow them to grow without pressure, you're only helping them to be successful, which in turn makes you a better club.
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2 of those guys have never pitched a full MLB season. And Walker is far from a sure thing.RoadDawg55 said:It was a shitty trade. I hope the M's keep Walker and Paxton. I would rather take chances that those two could be top of the line starters than acquire a 5 like Happ. Felix, Iwakuma, Elias, Walker, and Paxton is a good rotation. Sign another journeyman like they did Young for some depth. McClendon also talked about Wilhelmson maybe becoming a starter. Lots of shitty pitchers can be average pitching half their games at Safeco. There is no need to acquire one for $6.7 million. Even if the Blue Jays are evening the salaries, it's stupid.
Saunders is a decent player and the Mariners need every bat they can get. Having Logan Morrison be your everyday 1B is a recipe for disaster. I liked having Saunders around because Ackley may revert back to sucking and Jackson did terrible once the Mariners acquired him. There are too many guys in the lineup who are capable of having terrible seasons.
Happ provides depth to a rotation that is over worked on the front end and unproven on the back end.
Additionally, pitchers are more injury prone and require more rest than outfielders.
A decent SP is more valuable than a 4th OF who can be a late game defensive sub.
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Elias really hasn't pitched a full season either (although more than Paxton/Walker). There were different intervals last year where he was shut down for 7-10 days at a time because of a tired arm.ThomasFremont said:
2 of those guys have never pitched a full MLB season. And Walker is far from a sure thing.RoadDawg55 said:It was a shitty trade. I hope the M's keep Walker and Paxton. I would rather take chances that those two could be top of the line starters than acquire a 5 like Happ. Felix, Iwakuma, Elias, Walker, and Paxton is a good rotation. Sign another journeyman like they did Young for some depth. McClendon also talked about Wilhelmson maybe becoming a starter. Lots of shitty pitchers can be average pitching half their games at Safeco. There is no need to acquire one for $6.7 million. Even if the Blue Jays are evening the salaries, it's stupid.
Saunders is a decent player and the Mariners need every bat they can get. Having Logan Morrison be your everyday 1B is a recipe for disaster. I liked having Saunders around because Ackley may revert back to sucking and Jackson did terrible once the Mariners acquired him. There are too many guys in the lineup who are capable of having terrible seasons.
Happ provides depth to a rotation that is over worked on the front end and unproven on the back end.
Additionally, pitchers are more injury prone and require more rest than outfielders.
A decent SP is more valuable than a 4th OF who can be a late game defensive sub.
Even in the best of worlds, you probably are going to need a "6th starter) to make 10-15 starts for you on the season. -
PLSS has been banned and you're writing novels about the Mooriners.Tequilla said:If I was betting on a player going forward, I'd bet on LoMo before I'd bet on Saunders - particularly for 2015.
Moreover, if you look at the path of the Mariners tops prospects:
Alex Jackson will be an OF and probably will be pushing for a spot in the Bigs in 2017.
Peterson will be ready by no later than the beginning of 2016 ... he's a corner guy all the way.
Gabby Guerrero is an OF that could be pushing for a spot in the 2016-2017 time period. Same for Austin Wilson.
Patrick Kivelhan is in the same boat as Peterson - but may have the ability to also play some OF. Another 2016 guy.
Ketel Marte is probably a 2016 guy as well - might even have a higher ceiling than both Miller or Taylor. If nothing else, it makes it more likely that one of those two are expendable.
Point being that when you look through what the organizational depth is of the Mariners, there's a lot of OF prospects on the way. Saunders is a pure luxury. The organization lacks in SP's right now as they've focused on building up the bats. It's why the trade made some sense - regardless of whether you want to argue whether they could have got better than Happ. The point is that the deal itself made sense.
The other thing that makes a lot of sense when you look at the organizational depth is that it makes it that much more reasonable for the Mariners to have some high end contracts on their roster as they SHOULD be able to plug/play a lot of young players into the lineup making the league minimum.
Finally, by building the lineup properly today, you're bringing the next generation up to the majors in a position where not a lot is being asked of them. It allows them to settle in and not worry so much about the 0-4 with 3 K's that they'll have as a rookie because they are hitting 8th or 9th in the order. It sounds crazy to people that don't remember, but there was a time when a young Manny Ramirez used to hit 8th for the Indians. Of course, Manny could hit a ton and all of that and I'm sure he would have been successful regardless. But at the same time, when you can plug the young kids into your lineup and allow them to grow without pressure, you're only helping them to be successful, which in turn makes you a better club.
Fuck man get your priorities straight at a time like this.
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Saunders is a decent player. Exactly! Why is this so hard for everyone else to understand?RoadDawg55 said:It was a shitty trade. I hope the M's keep Walker and Paxton. I would rather take chances that those two could be top of the line starters than acquire a 5 like Happ. Felix, Iwakuma, Elias, Walker, and Paxton is a good rotation. Sign another journeyman like they did Young for some depth. McClendon also talked about Wilhelmson maybe becoming a starter. Lots of shitty pitchers can be average pitching half their games at Safeco. There is no need to acquire one for $6.7 million. Even if the Blue Jays are evening the salaries, it's stupid.
Saunders is a decent player and the Mariners need every bat they can get. Having Logan Morrison be your everyday 1B is a recipe for disaster. I liked having Saunders around because Ackley may revert back to sucking and Jackson did terrible once the Mariners acquired him. There are too many guys in the lineup who are capable of having terrible seasons. -
Logan MorrisonTequilla said:If I was betting on a player going forward, I'd bet on LoMo before I'd bet on Saunders - particularly for 2015.
2012: 90 wRC+
2013: 96 wRC+
2014: 110 wRC+
Below average defense at 1B
Saunders
2012: 108 wRC+
2013: 100 wRC+
2014 126 wRC+
Above average defense in RF
wRC+ is basically a glorified OPS btw.
Now before you bring up Saunders' injuries, Morrison has never played a 100 game season since 2011. So it's worse than saunders'
There is literally 0 basis for that statement, no matter which way you try to spin it.
And if they had played Saunders down the stretch over Denorfia and Hart. They would've ended up at least tied with Oakland if not ahead
