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Mount Rushmore a symbol of white supremacy says the DNC

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Comments

  • WilburHooksHandsWilburHooksHands Member Posts: 6,804

    A better idea would be to use federal funds to finish the Crazy Horse monument in the Black Hills.
    this
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827

    People forget that Jefferson put forth a vote in the Continental Congress to abolish slavery by 1800 - but it failed by 1 vote

    People forget that.
    People also forget that TJ went off on slavery ("a cruel war against human nature itself") in the original Declaration of Independence but South Carolina and Georgia edited it out.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 36,021 Standard Supporter

    Since you're one the few people who has restrained himself from calling me a fascist, communist (see below picture), or saying that beliefs I've held for decades are a phase, I wanted to reply.

    Washington, of course, did great things despite owning slaves. Defeated an oppressive colonial force, set a precedent for peaceful transition of power, etc. I don't know if I'd use the praise of an 18th century monarch in his defense, but that is beside the point. This becomes a philosophical issue: should history judge people by the societal norms of their time? There is no right answer. It should be a mix of the two, acknowledging both the positive and negative of historical figures. In Western history Caesar is generally viewed positively, despite his slaughtering the Gauls and others. Ghengis Khan is viewed negatively, despite his tolerance for religion and improving trade. Just examples, showing how problematic history is.

    I wouldn't support the de-naming of anything Washington. My views on Mt. Rushmore might be different if it had been made by a person less shitty than Gutzon Borglum, but the artist can't be separated from the art. When everything about Mt. Rushmore is combined then a reasonable person can see how another reasonable person might view it as a symbol of white supremacy.


    So now you know why it's easy for reasonable people to tag you a fascist or commie. Same, same anyway.

    But we're using today's standards otherwise you might not be breathing free air if we applied the standard from times past.

    You can not judge history with today's standards. It's like bitching about people not inventing electricity and antibiotics in the stone age. Why are lefties so fucking dense? That is the question of our time!
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827

    Somewhere in all this it gets missed that the chickens did come home to the tune of about 400,000 boys in blue who had to die to fix the problem. If that's not blood atonement I don't know what is.
    The problem is the boys in blue didn't have the conviction to follow through with reconstruction. The Civil War was absolutely a fantastic moment of atonement. The ensuing years through Grant's administration were mostly great as well (fuck Andrew Johnson). But the north/GOP gave much of that goodwill back with the Compromise of 1877 and the crooked election of Rutherford B Hayes.

    1860-1876 was a golden age of American equality.

    It was sadly short lived.

    Most of what we are experiencing now isn't so much the repercussions of slavery as it is is the repercussions of Jim Crow, even if the protestors don't understand that themselves.
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827
    SFGbob said:

    The Founders were all horrible people. They didn't support gay marriage nor trannie rights. They all supported child labor and didn't believe women had the right to vote, most of them believed it was okay to drink on the job and didn't believe you even had the right to vote unless you were a property owner. And don't even get me started about what they thought on the death penalty and the crimes that were eligible for a death sentence.

    Oh yeah, they didn't recycle and thought that nature was to be exploited by humans in order to better themselves.
    Everyone keeps a bottle on their desk next to their quill. Not a big deal.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 33,181
    dnc said:

    The problem is the boys in blue didn't have the conviction to follow through with reconstruction. The Civil War was absolutely a fantastic moment of atonement. The ensuing years through Grant's administration were mostly great as well (fuck Andrew Johnson). But the north/GOP gave much of that goodwill back with the Compromise of 1877 and the crooked election of Rutherford B Hayes.

    1860-1876 was a golden age of American equality.

    It was sadly short lived.

    Most of what we are experiencing now isn't so much the repercussions of slavery as it is is the repercussions of Jim Crow, even if the protestors don't understand that themselves.
    Agreed, but it would have been very difficult to sustain the political will to enforce Reconstruction. If would have taken a lot more killing of Southern Rat party members. People just got tired of it and no longer had the will to continue it. Many felt that the price in lives and treasure were already enough and when Democrats started winning offices in the North again the pressure to end it grew.
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827
    SFGbob said:

    Agreed, but it would have been very difficult to sustain the political will to enforce Reconstruction. If would have taken a lot more killing of Southern Rat party members. People just got tired of it and no longer had the will to continue it. Many felt that the price in lives and treasure were already enough and when Democrats started winning offices in the North again the pressure to end it grew.
    Agree with all of this.

    Letting the "Redeemer" Demokkkrats retake southern politics and disenfranchise blacks again was quite possibly the worst political decision in American history.

    They undid so much of what those 400,000 yanks died for.

    Absolutely tragic.

  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827

    The moral and just aftermath of the Civil War would have been 40 acres, a mule and full and enforceable civil rights. But before any of this could happen, Lincoln, first had to win the war and that meant reelection in 1864 with a Pro Union (Southern) Democrat on the ticket for Veep. John Wilkes Booth probably did as much as anyone to set back the plight of blacks in America. Andrew Johnson was the worst post Civil War POTUS.
    indeed
  • UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 17,367 Swaye's Wigwam

    The moral and just aftermath of the Civil War would have been 40 acres, a mule and full and enforceable civil rights. But before any of this could happen, Lincoln, first had to win the war and that meant reelection in 1864 with a Pro Union (Southern) Democrat on the ticket for Veep. John Wilkes Booth probably did as much as anyone to set back the plight of blacks in America. Andrew Johnson was the worst post Civil War POTUS.
    I'm hearing Abraham Lincoln was a bigoted piece of shit. Just what I'm hearing, don't twist.


  • GrandpaSankeyGrandpaSankey Member Posts: 958

    I'm hearing Abraham Lincoln was a bigoted piece of shit. Just what I'm hearing, don't twist.


    That's My President
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 36,021 Standard Supporter

    Never mind that New York is named after a slave trader who monopolized the British slave trade, and the NYT building sits on land that was basically stolen from the Lenape.

    Borglum was a democrat obviously.
  • WilburHooksHandsWilburHooksHands Member Posts: 6,804

    I'm hearing Abraham Lincoln was a bigoted piece of shit. Just what I'm hearing, don't twist.


    lol thats Oedipus, read a book
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,827
    This is all I have to say about Mount Rushmore










    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9FEUBPWt4
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