RIP Civil War

SpoonieLuv said:

The unpopularity of my position is not lost on me yet it is not devoid of serious scholarship on the issue. It stems from the evaluation of using a ground war to solve societal differences which have sewn the seeds of the turmoil which exists at present. It's not unreasonable to question whether Lincoln's war was the correct action to eliminate the obviously odious institution of slavery and its strong foothold in the southern (albeit it plantation owners were a very small minority of the southern population - not excusing it but it is not factual the a substantial number of them were slave-owners regardless of whether it was a supported position) institutions. A war on such scale should have been the last resort for the elimination of state approved slavery and the fact that the majority of all other countries ended slavery without a bloody conflict on this scale should be the only proof necessary to make one skeptical.

I agree war was not the preferable route. Lincoln would agree war was not the preferable route.

But war was never Lincoln's plan to free the slaves. He was forced into it by the secession of the states combined with the southern attack on federal forces.

Now we can argue he shouldn't have declared war regardless, but IMO at that point the south more than had it coming.

SpoonieLuv said:

HHusky said:

SpoonieLuv said:

HHusky said:

SpoonieLuv said:

Not a joke, did Great Britain not end slavery in a similar manner avoiding an obviously generationally divisive war? I’m certain there are nuances to the differences between the US situation and theirs however an all out war was probably the worst possible solution to the problem of slavery in North America.

The issue was not that buying the slaves' freedom never occurred to anyone.

And "forcing incompatible cultures to coexist in the same region"?

Yes, bring the former slaves to the north where there would have a been a far easier transition to normalcy given social milieu of the time.

https://oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/exclusion_laws/#.XvZX6G5Fw0Q

Apples and oranges.


The comparative reference was the contemporaneous climate in the south.

The South being the place where these newly emancipated people had lived all their lives. Isn't your thought just Liberia Lite?

SpoonieLuv said:

The unpopularity of my position is not lost on me yet it is not devoid of serious scholarship on the issue. It stems from the evaluation of using a ground war to solve societal differences which have sewn the seeds of the turmoil which exists at present. It's not unreasonable to question whether Lincoln's war was the correct action to eliminate the obviously odious institution of slavery and its strong foothold in the southern (albeit it plantation owners were a very small minority of the southern population - not excusing it but it is not factual the a substantial number of them were slave-owners regardless of whether it was a supported position) institutions. A war on such scale should have been the last resort for the elimination of state approved slavery and the fact that the majority of all other countries ended slavery without a bloody conflict on this scale should be the only proof necessary to make one skeptical.

In the momentous step which our State [Mississippi] has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

"Lincoln's War"

dnc said:

SpoonieLuv said:

The unpopularity of my position is not lost on me yet it is not devoid of serious scholarship on the issue. It stems from the evaluation of using a ground war to solve societal differences which have sewn the seeds of the turmoil which exists at present. It's not unreasonable to question whether Lincoln's war was the correct action to eliminate the obviously odious institution of slavery and its strong foothold in the southern (albeit it plantation owners were a very small minority of the southern population - not excusing it but it is not factual the a substantial number of them were slave-owners regardless of whether it was a supported position) institutions. A war on such scale should have been the last resort for the elimination of state approved slavery and the fact that the majority of all other countries ended slavery without a bloody conflict on this scale should be the only proof necessary to make one skeptical.

I agree war was not the preferable route. Lincoln would agree war was not the preferable route.

But war was never Lincoln's plan to free the slaves. He was forced into it by the secession of the states combined with the southern attack on federal forces.

Now we can argue he shouldn't have declared war regardless, but IMO at that point the south more than had it coming.

Agreed. But succession should have been allowed and the northern states do anything they, at a personal level, to bring slaves to their rightful freedoms

I have the exact same opinion of every other war, notably Enduring/Iraqi Freedom of which I was a part of, as I do of the Civil War. If you feel strongly about the issue please pick up your weapon and volunteer to fight but do not throw an entire society of mixed views and opinions to fight under the auspices of a collective value. It’s counterproductive at best.

Sledog said:

I'm sure the Romans and English probably owe me reparations! Fork it over!

Irish?

It figures.