If Hop Loses Out

Funny thing is, the football program is more successful, and the recruiting base here for that sport sucks. Seattle produces a ton of hoops talent, and you need a small fraction of the bodies for bb than you do fb.

There is no excuse or explanation other than coaching and institutional incompetence.

I have to say this too: every time some elite basketball recruit out of Seattle chooses UW I am stunned. Fucking stunned. Because those kids could go anywhere else and get the best of both worlds: [truly] elite academis + elite, or at least competent, hoops. How does a kid choose Washington if he could play in the ACC for Duke or UNC. By all rights it should have to compete hard against Wake or Georgia Tech or Syracuse. Stanford & UCLA are no-brainers.

But somehow, they want to stay. And still ....

PurpleThrobber said:

ThomasFremont said:

PurpleThrobber said:

ThomasFremont said:

Houhusky said:

Swaye said:

See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.

Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.

Read thread.

Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.

Look for bleach and a shot glass.

50+ new comments!!!!

Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit

Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy

I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.

To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.

Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.

I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.

Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.

BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.


Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16


But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?

You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?

Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible

CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington

Burmeister: 178/67/44

Wolfinger: 144/56/8

Wallace: 239/207/35

Gasser: 193/124/38

Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter

@ Gladstone

Let me try to be a little clearer with my points ... it's fair that I've been responding to different aspects and points and likely not solidified any real opinion in full so let me be clear

1) There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there are NBA caliber players that come out of Seattle and Washington St

2) UW has historically not done well keeping in-state players at UW

3) Many of the recent players coming out of the Seattle area and AAU scene over the last 10 years or so has been iffy IMO in terms of doing much of anything (I think this coincides with the FOH vs Seattle Rotary world)

Throughout the history of the NBA, there have been a total of 61 players that have either played in the NBA and/or ABA and of those 61, 29 of those started in the NBA in the last 20 years (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=US&state=WA). It's probably missing a few local kids that have been born outside of the area, but it's a decent list to start the discussion.

Sorting the list by the top 20 scorers (overall points), only 6 of the 20 played college hoops at UW (James Edwards, IT, Nate, BRoy, and Spencer/Steve Hawes).

When you look at the list, what you see is a bunch of dudes that left the area for college: Jamal Crawford (Michigan), Jason Terry (Arizona), Marvin Williams (UNC), Doug Christie (Pepperdine), Avery Bradley (Texas), Aaron Brooks (Oregon), and Zach LaVine (UCLA). This list isn't including guys off the top of my head that I know were Western Washington guys that left like Michael Dickerson and Luke Ridnour.

If you look at the list of all-time UW recruits per 247 (https://247sports.com/college/washington/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits/), it's a pretty telling story of some that worked out really well for us and a bunch of others that were some form of a bust.

If we go more recently of guys that we missed on not previously mentioned you can add to the list guys like Kevin Porter (USC), Allonzo Trier (Arizona), Peyton Siva (Louisville), and Terrence Williams (Louisville) over the last 10 years

So my point on the Seattle/Washington recruiting base is that while I have no problem acknowledging that there's talent, there's really not a huge amount of evidence to suggest that local kids are looking to stay home. In fact, the evidence suggests more often than not that they are prepared to leave home.

And to this idea that Hop hasn't recruited locally is one that doesn't really resonate with me ... in last year's class he signed McDaniels (Federal Way), Battle (Marysville Pilchuck), and Tsohonis (Portland) ... so when you are getting 3 guys from essentially your NW footprint, that's telling me that you're recruiting locally.

Someone mentioned that the 2020 class is pretty much trash locally ... and it's showing in that we've got nothing. We went for more big time recruits and we've failed big time there. This is where not having a recruiting strategy that hits internationally, etc. becomes a major issue.

I'm not trying to doog here but I really don't know what people are expecting out of Hopkins ... it seems like a massive amount of Monday Morning QB'ing to me. This year has sucked ... no question. But nobody would have looked at the recruiting class for this year and been disappointed in terms of quality or attention locally. The question for me is how he pivots off of this year whether it be one and done's vs widening his net for years where the local base isn't worth a damn, etc. Does he focus on recruiting the best talent possible and trying to figure it out or does he focus more on culture and fits? Is targeting more 3 and 4 year players going forward?

There's a whole laundry list of items to look at in terms of the on court product. I think @RoadDawg55 is on to something in saying that I think one of Hop's big misses (and this is a consistent Syracuse issue) is that he leaned more to long and lanky athletes instead of guys that can shoot. The game has shifted to the ability to space the court and shoot being the most important skill in the game (followed closely on being able to penetrate and create shots for others). We all can bitch at scheme but ultimately at some point players have to play with effort and execute. I've seen way too many examples of guys making selfish plays and creating difficult situations for themselves to just sit there and not say that the players have some accountability for it.

As for the season, my explanation for what has gone wrong is as follows:

1) Quade Green being academically ineligible

The team was 11-4 with Green and is 1-10 since then. When you look at the numbers, it makes a ton of sense as to why as Quade had the highest offensive rating of anybody on the roster and was the only significant player that had a defensive rating over 100 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/washington/2020.html). It's fair to be critical of Quade for not only not handling his business, but also to question what oversight was in place to prevent this from happening. It's impossible not to see how important Green's absence is when 7 of the 10 losses since Quade has been ineligible have been by 6 points or less.

2) Lack of defense/effort = immaturity

Everybody wants to play offense ... it's a sign of any young and immature player at any level of play in any sport. They want the glory that comes with the highlight and getting points. Anybody that has played any amount of sports knows that games are one through details and effort. Anybody that has played hoops knows the importance of getting on the ground for loose balls. We don't do that ... we waist bend. It's like people are afraid to get hurt. But the defense is bad. The hustle back is bad. The defensive rating on this team is putrid. Stewart is at 92.9, McDaniels at 94.2, and Carter at 94.5. When your 3 best players aren't putting in a great work rate defensively, it's going to filter across the team.

3) Naz wasn't able to take the leap

One of the areas that was required for this team to take a leap forward this year was Naz taking a leap forward and getting into a leadership role as a Junior. Instead of taking the reigns and running, particularly after Green got suspended, he's pretty much turned into a guy that is a high end role player at best as every single metric for him is either the same or worst this year. His shooting % is down as his shot selection isn't great. He remains a low 60% FT shooter. His scoring per 40 minutes is at comparable levels even though he's in theory being given more opportunities. His rating on both ends of the floor have taken dramatic dips. Not taking a step up to at least an honorable conference level, he's basically just turned into a supporting piece and shifted the brunt of the burden on the shoulders of young players that aren't ready to handle it.

PurpleThrobber said:

Tequilla said:

Seattle metro hoops is massively overrated in my opinion

Lots of dudes can play ... no question about that

But there have been a lot of dudes coming out of Seattle that play super selfish individual ball that flames out

For all those that like to say the local kids want to put on for their school, family, and friends locally ... historically that hasn’t been true in hoops other than for fits and starts

Since history started in, like, 2012 or what?

BRoy, Brockman, Nate, Conroy, Kim Stewart, James Edwards, Mike Neill....how far back do you want to go historically?

There are ballers in Washington. Always have been.

This is on Hop.

Thybulle, Nowell, Crisp, Green just last year? Ya they weren't all the best but they were conference champs.