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Not Adams and Huff’s Fault
RoadDawg55
Member Posts: 30,129
But if Jimmy mandated keeping them for recruiting purposes, he didn’t do himself any favors.
Still just can’t fathom how this guy was hired other than Jimmy doing his agent or someone in their industry a solid.
Still just can’t fathom how this guy was hired other than Jimmy doing his agent or someone in their industry a solid.
Comments
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College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
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Disagree Sonics. If that was the case LSU would have had a great offense a long time ago. USC would have won the conference just about every year. Both are really important. Yes, the teams that are winning titles are near the top in recruiting. I’ve always said, the difference between the 10th and 20th class in the rankings is very small.
I would argue coaching is more important if you aren’t getting the best, elite players because you have to turn guys that have roughly the same talent into winners.
If axing Huff and Adams would have gotten us a better OC it should have been done. They aren’t the only good recruiters either. -
Having Huff and Adams played no role in the OC decision making.RoadDawg55 said:Disagree Sonics. If that was the case LSU would have had a great offense a long time ago. USC would have won the conference just about every year. Both are really important.
I would argue coaching is more important if you aren’t getting the best, elite players because you have to turn guys that have roughly the same talent into winners.
If axing Huff and Adams would have gotten us a better OC it should have been done. They aren’t the only good recruiters either. -
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25% -
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25% -
I would say it’s 60-40 favoring coaching. UW based off name and recent success alone will pull in some good players by default.
We aren’t better than 2016 even tho we have recruited better on paper.
There is so much more nuance to football than just getting the best players in the recruiting rankings. The rankings get skewed by coaching, who has offered, a team’s recent success, camps, the camps the recruits go to, and their initial rankings as sophomores.
It would be interesting to see how Biggins and the others would rank players if they had no information but what their eyes were telling them. No awareness of who had offered, who was a priority to teams, etc. -
I don't agree with this ratio either (about 50-50 IMO) but if it's true it still makes this OC hire a massive question mark. They damn sure didn't hire this dude to recruit.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
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LSU didn’t all of a sudden get great players. They have always had them. Burrows went from a 3 star transfer that was nothing special to having an all time season. It wasn’t from a bunch of new players around him either.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25% -
I would agree that X’s and O’s aren’t that important and you don’t need your coach to be a whiteboard master. That part of coaching is overrated.
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Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and. -
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and. -
By the way ASU hired a 27 year WR coach and 24 year old DB this past off season because Herm realized recruiting is what matters the most. Bring in talent, let them play and you will win the majority of your games. Pete messed up not playing the talent and choosing the seniors over the younger players, Jimmy can't make that same mistake.
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If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong. -
ASU hasn’t won shit. We will see how that turns out for Herm. Nobody is arguing that recruiting isn’t important, but that’s not an example of anything other than Herm made some coaching changes.sonics1993 said:By the way ASU hired a 27 year WR coach and 24 year old DB this past off season because Herm realized recruiting is what matters the most. Bring in talent, let them play and you will win the majority of your games. Pete messed up not playing the talent and choosing the seniors over the younger players, Jimmy can't make that same mistake.
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Btw, I thought Pete didn’t make the decisions on who played. We all know he did play at least some role, but I believe even you have posted that before.
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He was brought in because Jimmy liked what he saw from the LSU offense and wanted a guy from that tree. Don't know why he wouldn't go after Moorehead but only he can answer that question. OC's don't need to be strong recruiters since they aren't lead recruiters, they just need build relationships.AtomicDawg said:
If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong. -
Herm already has talent In the secondary and some of them regressed this year. Herm is a 9-9 coach. Why is everyone so quick to celebrate what he’s done when his predecessor was more successful.sonics1993 said:By the way ASU hired a 27 year WR coach and 24 year old DB this past off season because Herm realized recruiting is what matters the most. Bring in talent, let them play and you will win the majority of your games. Pete messed up not playing the talent and choosing the seniors over the younger players, Jimmy can't make that same mistake.
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Oh, i'm not celebrating him at all, just saying it shows what his primary focus is when hiring coaches. Who knows if it will work but I like the strategy, especially with USC and UCLA downAtomicDawg said:
Herm already has talent In the secondary and some of them regressed this year. Herm is a 9-9 coach. Why is everyone so quick to celebrate what he’s done when his predecessor was more successful.sonics1993 said:By the way ASU hired a 27 year WR coach and 24 year old DB this past off season because Herm realized recruiting is what matters the most. Bring in talent, let them play and you will win the majority of your games. Pete messed up not playing the talent and choosing the seniors over the younger players, Jimmy can't make that same mistake.
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Simply having a good offense that puts up a lot of points helps recruiting.sonics1993 said:
He was brought in because Jimmy liked what he saw from the LSU offense and wanted a guy from that tree. Don't know why he wouldn't go after Moorehead but only he can answer that question. OC's don't need to be strong recruiters since they aren't lead recruiters, they just need build relationships.AtomicDawg said:
If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong.
In order to our recruit the big boys, you need great recruiters. That said, half of our classes are guys that come to UW because that is their best offer and the most prestigious school after them. Not all players come to a school because of their position coach. It plays a role. It’s not the only role. Very far from it actually. -
Recruiting only matters if you have a good coachsonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
ergo, therefore, ipso fatso...
1) coaching
2) recruiting
but you still need both.
As far as value... there are far fewer great coaches/developers than there are guys that can slide coffee cups to high schoolers. -
@sonics1993 - How shocked were you about this hire? Did you know about him prior to the announcement?
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Relationships are by far the number one factor in recruiting.RoadDawg55 said:
Simply having a good offense that puts up a lot of points helps recruiting.sonics1993 said:
He was brought in because Jimmy liked what he saw from the LSU offense and wanted a guy from that tree. Don't know why he wouldn't go after Moorehead but only he can answer that question. OC's don't need to be strong recruiters since they aren't lead recruiters, they just need build relationships.AtomicDawg said:
If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong.
In order to our recruit the big boys, you need great recruiters. That said, half of our classes are guys that come to UW because that is their best offer and the most prestigious school after them. Not all players come to a school because of their position coach. It plays a role. It’s not the only role. Very far from it actually. -
Didn't know about him but knew Jimmy was studying the LSU tape a lot. When I heard about the connection to Brady and the feedback received it made sense.KrunkJuice said:@sonics1993 - How shocked were you about this hire? Did you know about him prior to the announcement?
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It’s a factor. Players aren’t going to the blue bloods because they have the best relationships with them. School prestige, location, playing time, scheme, academics, family pressure, etc. There are tons of reasons. I’m not arguing that relationships aren’t important. They are.sonics1993 said:
Relationships are by far the number one factor in recruiting.RoadDawg55 said:
Simply having a good offense that puts up a lot of points helps recruiting.sonics1993 said:
He was brought in because Jimmy liked what he saw from the LSU offense and wanted a guy from that tree. Don't know why he wouldn't go after Moorehead but only he can answer that question. OC's don't need to be strong recruiters since they aren't lead recruiters, they just need build relationships.AtomicDawg said:
If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong.
In order to our recruit the big boys, you need great recruiters. That said, half of our classes are guys that come to UW because that is their best offer and the most prestigious school after them. Not all players come to a school because of their position coach. It plays a role. It’s not the only role. Very far from it actually.
The reality is tho that these kids have good relationships with a lot of coaches. These coaches are buttering them up and selling them on their school.
If Tosh became the DL coach at WSU, he still would not beat out Malloe for 95% of DL recruits. UW is considered the better place to play. Recruits mainly go to schools by tier. There is no one answer for recruiting. -
Brady was a GA under Donovan prior to his time under Moorhead and Sean Payton. I think it's safe to say what Brady brought to LSU he learned from the latter.sonics1993 said:
Didn't know about him but knew Jimmy was studying the LSU tape a lot. When I heard about the connection to Brady and the feedback received it made sense.KrunkJuice said:@sonics1993 - How shocked were you about this hire? Did you know about him prior to the announcement?
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True but him and Donovan still keep in touch and communicate.insinceredawg said:
Brady was a GA under Donovan prior to his time under Moorhead and Sean Payton. I think it's safe to say what Brady brought to LSU he learned from the latter.sonics1993 said:
Didn't know about him but knew Jimmy was studying the LSU tape a lot. When I heard about the connection to Brady and the feedback received it made sense.KrunkJuice said:@sonics1993 - How shocked were you about this hire? Did you know about him prior to the announcement?
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TrueRoadDawg55 said:
It’s a factor. Players aren’t going to the blue bloods because they have the best relationships with them. School prestige, location, playing time, scheme, academics, family pressure, etc. There are tons of reasons. I’m not arguing that relationships aren’t important. They are.sonics1993 said:
Relationships are by far the number one factor in recruiting.RoadDawg55 said:
Simply having a good offense that puts up a lot of points helps recruiting.sonics1993 said:
He was brought in because Jimmy liked what he saw from the LSU offense and wanted a guy from that tree. Don't know why he wouldn't go after Moorehead but only he can answer that question. OC's don't need to be strong recruiters since they aren't lead recruiters, they just need build relationships.AtomicDawg said:
If that is the case how is this hire going to help us in recruiting? His offenses have sucked when he was in charge at penn st.sonics1993 said:
I saw Clay Helton win a rose bowl. Agree both matter but recruiting is far more important.dnc said:
Dabo was a WR coach yes but Clemson for years had the highest paid coordinators in the game.sonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
Orgeron's always been able to recruit at an insane level but this is his first year of elite results...when he hired an elite X's and O's guy.
It's not coaching or recruiting, it's both/and.
Do you see him as someone that is going to get the most out of Adams and Huff. I would doubt it. This hire smells of jimmy thinking he is smarter than everyone else and zigging when they zag. I hope this is the case, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I’ll say it again. This guy was hired IN SPITE of his track record. This would mean he is hired based off of an idea that lake thinks will work.
I want to be wrong.
In order to our recruit the big boys, you need great recruiters. That said, half of our classes are guys that come to UW because that is their best offer and the most prestigious school after them. Not all players come to a school because of their position coach. It plays a role. It’s not the only role. Very far from it actually.
The reality is tho that these kids have good relationships with a lot of coaches. These coaches are buttering them up and selling them on their school.
If Tosh became the DL coach at WSU, he still would not beat out Malloe for 95% of DL recruits. UW is considered the better place to play. Recruits mainly go to schools by tier. There is no one answer for recruiting. -
Sounds good but couldn’t we just hire him as the tight end coach. Putting him in charge just seems like a Hail Mary.sonics1993 said:
True but him and Donovan still keep in touch and communicate.insinceredawg said:
Brady was a GA under Donovan prior to his time under Moorhead and Sean Payton. I think it's safe to say what Brady brought to LSU he learned from the latter.sonics1993 said:
Didn't know about him but knew Jimmy was studying the LSU tape a lot. When I heard about the connection to Brady and the feedback received it made sense.KrunkJuice said:@sonics1993 - How shocked were you about this hire? Did you know about him prior to the announcement?
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Great recruiters are a plus when they have something to sell. I’m sure Oregon State and WSU have a coach or two that all recruits love but still won’t go there because it’s WSU and Oregon State.Houhusky said:
Recruiting only matters if you have a good coachsonics1993 said:
Not in college football. The two HC's in the championship game is a WR coach in Dabo and a DL coach in Ed Oregon. Neither of them are are great coach but they are elite recruiters. Oregon won a rose bowl with a meatball OL coach as there HC and incompetent Arroyo as there OC because they accumulated talent and let played them. If Jimmy does this with our roster we will be fine.whatshouldicareabout said:
Disagree.sonics1993 said:College Football is 75% recruiting, 25% coaching. Jimmy did the right thing keeping them because they bring in talent.
We lost to Cal two years in a row. Coaching is way the fuck more important than 25%
ergo, therefore, ipso fatso...
1) coaching
2) recruiting
but you still need both.
As far as value... there are far fewer great coaches/developers than there are guys that can slide coffee cups to high schoolers. -
There is no bigger case against the "recruiting is all that matters" mantra than Mora's tenure at UCLA. In one recruiting class (2015) they had the #1 QB, #1 RB, #2 pass rusher, and #1 TE all in the same class. Every one of them turned into a big pile of shit because they were so poorly coached.
Also, the whole hand wringing of "Cristobal's recruiting has put Oregon over UW" is also bullshit. He won the pac 12 this year with a bunch of upper classmen who had started since they were freshmen. UW and Oregon are essentially even in blue chip talent.
