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How Finland Slashed Homelessness by 40%

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  • Doog_de_Jour
    Doog_de_Jour Member Posts: 8,042 Standard Supporter
    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Btw, has anyone been to LA lately and driven around town? Talk about a fucking bum explosion. I've not been to Seattle in years but LA is being over run.

    Seattle is being overrun. No doubt about it.

    Not on the east side ... really at all. But Seattle proper absolutely. From SoDo all the way to Belltown and lower Queen Anne.
    Oh homelessness is heading to the Eastside my friend. More and more in Bellevue all the time.
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  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    PurpleThrobber said:

    Gwad said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Disagree.

    How many homeless junkies are in your guest room?
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    We should cyber - I can tell you nightmare tales of this shit.

    Even from the Compound, this shit hits home.

    UGM at least makes the bums clean up and get sober.


    That's not very libertarian of you. If people want to be homeless. Let them.
    If people want to be homeless, they can abide by the same set of rules and laws of society as the rest of us.

    People shit on the sidewalk or shoot up in parks and libraries - fuck that. Not a lot of tax dollars being derived from junkies to pay for those places. They need to go hunker down in the forest if they want to act like savages.
    Oh so you and Mike are only a liberation if homeless people are moved away from your town by the government?
    Shitting in public places has nothing to do with liberty. It’s uncivilized. Spreading disease is not the pursuit or exercise of liberty.

    If they can’t abide by common decency, they should live in the wild where they can shit in the woods with bears.

    But why the government intervention? Shouldn't the free market take care of it like everything else?
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  • Southerndawg
    Southerndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,354 Founders Club
    YellowSnow said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    There are about 100 tents along along I-5 between NE 45th and Northgate. They weren't there 12 months ago. I explain to my kids when they ask is that the reason they are there is because they do bad drugs and won't get jobs. You don't want to be like that when you grow up.
    Seattle has always had a homeless problem to some degree, but seeing firsthand the rapid expansion this far north really is stunning. Seattle is Freeattling itself into a first rate shit hole.
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  • PurpleThrobber
    PurpleThrobber Member Posts: 48,496 Standard Supporter
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    Gwad said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Disagree.

    How many homeless junkies are in your guest room?
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    We should cyber - I can tell you nightmare tales of this shit.

    Even from the Compound, this shit hits home.

    UGM at least makes the bums clean up and get sober.


    That's not very libertarian of you. If people want to be homeless. Let them.
    If people want to be homeless, they can abide by the same set of rules and laws of society as the rest of us.

    People shit on the sidewalk or shoot up in parks and libraries - fuck that. Not a lot of tax dollars being derived from junkies to pay for those places. They need to go hunker down in the forest if they want to act like savages.
    Oh so you and Mike are only a liberation if homeless people are moved away from your town by the government?
    Shitting in public places has nothing to do with liberty. It’s uncivilized. Spreading disease is not the pursuit or exercise of liberty.

    If they can’t abide by common decency, they should live in the wild where they can shit in the woods with bears.

    But why the government intervention? Shouldn't the free market take care of it like everything else?
    The free hand of capitalism doesn’t scoop shit off public sidewalks.
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  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    Gwad said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Disagree.

    How many homeless junkies are in your guest room?
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    We should cyber - I can tell you nightmare tales of this shit.

    Even from the Compound, this shit hits home.

    UGM at least makes the bums clean up and get sober.


    That's not very libertarian of you. If people want to be homeless. Let them.
    If people want to be homeless, they can abide by the same set of rules and laws of society as the rest of us.

    People shit on the sidewalk or shoot up in parks and libraries - fuck that. Not a lot of tax dollars being derived from junkies to pay for those places. They need to go hunker down in the forest if they want to act like savages.
    Oh so you and Mike are only a liberation if homeless people are moved away from your town by the government?
    Shitting in public places has nothing to do with liberty. It’s uncivilized. Spreading disease is not the pursuit or exercise of liberty.

    If they can’t abide by common decency, they should live in the wild where they can shit in the woods with bears.

    But why the government intervention? Shouldn't the free market take care of it like everything else?
    The free hand of capitalism doesn’t scoop shit off public sidewalks.
    So we expect the free market to keep the rivers clean but not the public sidewalks?
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  • PurpleThrobber
    PurpleThrobber Member Posts: 48,496 Standard Supporter
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    Gwad said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Disagree.

    How many homeless junkies are in your guest room?
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    We should cyber - I can tell you nightmare tales of this shit.

    Even from the Compound, this shit hits home.

    UGM at least makes the bums clean up and get sober.


    That's not very libertarian of you. If people want to be homeless. Let them.
    If people want to be homeless, they can abide by the same set of rules and laws of society as the rest of us.

    People shit on the sidewalk or shoot up in parks and libraries - fuck that. Not a lot of tax dollars being derived from junkies to pay for those places. They need to go hunker down in the forest if they want to act like savages.
    Oh so you and Mike are only a liberation if homeless people are moved away from your town by the government?
    Shitting in public places has nothing to do with liberty. It’s uncivilized. Spreading disease is not the pursuit or exercise of liberty.

    If they can’t abide by common decency, they should live in the wild where they can shit in the woods with bears.

    But why the government intervention? Shouldn't the free market take care of it like everything else?
    The free hand of capitalism doesn’t scoop shit off public sidewalks.
    So we expect the free market to keep the rivers clean but not the public sidewalks?
    You're confusing me with someone else in terms of economic theory and the purpose/scope of non-market forces - there is a role for government, one of which is enforcement of laws -including vagrancy, panhandling, illegal drug use and indecent exposure.

    The Throbber is the right middle quartile of the bell curve. Maybe even closer to the middle left of the bell than most might think.





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  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    Gwad said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Disagree.

    How many homeless junkies are in your guest room?
    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    2001400ex said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    creepycoug said:

    SFGbob said:

    Here's how you cut homelessness. Enforce vagrancy laws. Don't allow people to camp on the side walks and public parks. If you're mentally ill you should institutionalized. Enforce all laws prohibiting people for doing drugs in public. Get rid of all needle exchange programs. Get rid of all homeless feeding and give-away programs. Enforce all public urination and defecation prohibitions. Start arresting and prosecuting people again for property crimes.

    Shit, we're going to at least semi-agree on this too.

    As much as it pains me to say it though, Hondo may be partially right in that the places these people need to go - institutions and jail - require funding. Prisons fill up fast. I'm old enough to remember the Reagan/Bush war on drugs where we were putting dudes away for extended periods of time for selling pot to other stoners within some distance of a school, judicial sentencing discretion revoked for certain offenses, and we wound up having to let out pretty violent people early to make room for the drug guys doing mandatory long sentences.

    But all that being as it may, making it comfortable and easy to be homeless isn't the answer. It seems to be the humane thing to do ... but in the final analysis it's not.

    The other hurdle you have with institutions is the civil rights crowd and the issue of institutionalizing people against their will.

    The cleanups are a waste of time. They had a big raid in Pioneer Square a month or so back, and a lot of the crazies aren't sleeping here anymore - although they come around because of the two Union Gospel Missions withing 5 blocks of one another - but all they did was relocate and make some other place in Seattle a shit hole.
    We should cyber - I can tell you nightmare tales of this shit.

    Even from the Compound, this shit hits home.

    UGM at least makes the bums clean up and get sober.


    That's not very libertarian of you. If people want to be homeless. Let them.
    If people want to be homeless, they can abide by the same set of rules and laws of society as the rest of us.

    People shit on the sidewalk or shoot up in parks and libraries - fuck that. Not a lot of tax dollars being derived from junkies to pay for those places. They need to go hunker down in the forest if they want to act like savages.
    Oh so you and Mike are only a liberation if homeless people are moved away from your town by the government?
    Shitting in public places has nothing to do with liberty. It’s uncivilized. Spreading disease is not the pursuit or exercise of liberty.

    If they can’t abide by common decency, they should live in the wild where they can shit in the woods with bears.

    But why the government intervention? Shouldn't the free market take care of it like everything else?
    The free hand of capitalism doesn’t scoop shit off public sidewalks.
    So we expect the free market to keep the rivers clean but not the public sidewalks?
    You're confusing me with someone else in terms of economic theory and the purpose/scope of non-market forces - there is a role for government, one of which is enforcement of laws -including vagrancy, panhandling, illegal drug use and indecent exposure.

    The Throbber is the right middle quartile of the bell curve. Maybe even closer to the middle left of the bell than most might think.





    Well that's fair. You were just responding to my critique of Damoan/libertarians.
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  • Pitchfork51
    Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,676
    If this had anything to do with a true free market, people would pay to have some fuckers round them all up and dump them in another town. LIke an HOA situation.
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