Certainly helps that SA shot 58% and 53% on threes. I didn't watch the whole game but the Spurs looked like they were gliding, not seeing OKCs bigs put enough points up.
67-32 in the paint. I don't see that changing either.
Westbrook/Durant gotta pull a Lebron/Wade against Indiana in 2012 to win this series.
The problem with that comparison is this San Antonio team would sweep that Pacers team.
Plus Durant isn't as good as Lebron despite what many morons seem to think.
Lebron does so much for his team and the few times OKC ask Durant to do that he has proven he can't.
I'm sure you were one of those people who currently give Durant a free pass who was on Lebron's ass for not winning a title in Cleveland even though he never had a Westbrook, Ibaka or Westbrook.
LeBron got a lot of shit because he checked out against Boston in his last year in Cleveland. His team wasn't good though. When Mo Williams and Jamison are the next best players, your team sucks.
LeBron got a lot of shit because he checked out against Boston in his last year in Cleveland. His team wasn't good though. When Mo Williams and Jamison are the next best players, your team sucks.
Durant did that this year against Memphis in game 4 but Jackson bailed him out then again in game 5 against Clippers but Westbrook bailed him out.
Although Lebron's current game is reminding me of that game 5 against Boston.
LeBron got a lot of shit because he checked out against Boston in his last year in Cleveland. His team wasn't good though. When Mo Williams and Jamison are the next best players, your team sucks.
Durant did that this year against Memphis in game 4 but Jackson bailed him out then again in game 5 against Clippers but Westbrook bailed him out.
Although Lebron's current game is reminding me of that game 5 against Boston.
Durant didn't check out. He had bad games. In game 5 against the Clippers, he hit huge 3's and had 10 points in the last 4 minutes.
LeBron got a lot of shit because he checked out against Boston in his last year in Cleveland. His team wasn't good though. When Mo Williams and Jamison are the next best players, your team sucks.
Durant did that this year against Memphis in game 4 but Jackson bailed him out then again in game 5 against Clippers but Westbrook bailed him out.
Although Lebron's current game is reminding me of that game 5 against Boston.
Durant didn't check out. He had bad games. In game 5 against the Clippers, he hit huge 3's and had 10 points in the last 4 minutes.
He was looked checked out until that final 4 minutes. The final 4 minutes wouldn't have mattered if he had a Mo Williams instead of a Westbrook as the game would have been a blow out.
LeBron got a lot of shit because he checked out against Boston in his last year in Cleveland. His team wasn't good though. When Mo Williams and Jamison are the next best players, your team sucks.
Durant did that this year against Memphis in game 4 but Jackson bailed him out then again in game 5 against Clippers but Westbrook bailed him out.
Although Lebron's current game is reminding me of that game 5 against Boston.
Durant didn't check out. He had bad games. In game 5 against the Clippers, he hit huge 3's and had 10 points in the last 4 minutes.
He was looked checked out until that final 4 minutes. The final 4 minutes wouldn't have mattered if he had a Mo Williams instead of a Westbrook as the game would have been a blow out.
I don't think Durant is that far behind LeBron. If they switched teams, Durant is taking the Heat to the finals and the Thunder would have a hard time taking down the Spurs without Ibaka. They are both incredible.
I don't think Durant is that far behind LeBron. If they switched teams, Durant is taking the Heat to the finals and the Thunder would have a hard time taking down the Spurs without Ibaka. They are both incredible.
Bullshit. Durant can't win a title with Westbrook, Ibaka and even Harden yet he's going to win a title with Wade at the end of his career, a bunch of washed up role guys and Chris Bosh???
Come on man! Durant can't do the things that Lebron can. He can't make his teammates better, he can't play multiple positions, he can't post up like Lebron. He's a much better shooter that's his big advantage.
Like today Lebron wasn't scoring worth a shit but down by 7 late in the third quarter he drove the lane and drew a double team. Both times found the open guy who knocked down the three pointer. Without scoring a point he just gave his team six points to cut the lead to one heading into the final period. Durant has yet to show he can do something like that.
I don't think Durant is that far behind LeBron. If they switched teams, Durant is taking the Heat to the finals and the Thunder would have a hard time taking down the Spurs without Ibaka. They are both incredible.
Bullshit. Durant can't win a title with Westbrook, Ibaka and even Harden yet he's going to win a title with Wade at the end of his career, a bunch of washed up role guys and Chris Bosh???
Come on man! Durant can't do the things that Lebron can. He can't make his teammates better, he can't play multiple positions, he can't post up like Lebron. He's a much better shooter that's his big advantage.
Like today Lebron wasn't scoring worth a shit but down by 7 late in the third quarter he drove the lane and drew a double team. Both times found the open guy who knocked down the three pointer. Without scoring a point he just gave his team six points to cut the lead to one heading into the final period. Durant has yet to show he can do something like that.
LeBron has a little better all around game, but Durant is good at everything in basketball, and he's the best scorer in the game. He can put up 40 at anytime on any player in the league. Just like LeBron, it doesn't matter who is guarding him. Durant gets 8 rebounds, 5 assists, is a pretty good defender, great handle.
LeBron has a little more veteran saavy. His teammates do too. That's the real difference between the two.The Thunder were young when they lost to the Heat in the Finals. They are still a young team. Durant is already great, but his best years are ahead of him.
Do you think Lebron loses 4 straight to Memphis last year in that same circumstance? I don't. Even with Kevin Martin and Serge Ibaka I don't think they roll over in 5 games.
I also can't see Durant taking out the MVP in Derek Rose in 2011 either like Lebron can. The stats are close but the eye test shows Durant still has a long ways.
Just like in 2012 NBA Finals Lebron and Durant had similar numbers but when both were guarding each other down the stretch who was making the big plays? That was Lebron. It's why Lebron has a huge W-L all-time record against Durant because he typically makes the big plays down the stretch and can contain him defensively.
Proof was yesterday's game. How many times does Miami do what OKC tried to do where Lebron plays the 4? They do it a lot especially against San Antonio. Durant was getting killed defensively when he was asked to play the 4.
That's the biggest difference between the two, Lebron at times hasn't played as well defensively as years past. He is still light years ahead of Durant though as a defender and in making his teammates better. Lebron finds shooters and trusts his teammates while Durant still doesn't.
Now you could argue Durant doesn't because he has reason to much like Kobe during 2005-2007 which is reasonable. Still, Lebron changed the game today while not having a great scoring game. I don't remember Durant having that big of an impact when he's not scoring big.
I don't think Durant is that far behind LeBron. If they switched teams, Durant is taking the Heat to the finals and the Thunder would have a hard time taking down the Spurs without Ibaka. They are both incredible.
Also Durant has a ways to go so him not being better than Lebron now isn't a knock on him.
First of all despite playing the same position they are different players. Also in the NBA you have to go through some heartbreak before you break through unless you inherit a HOF center like Magic or Kobe did.
Michael had his lumps where in today's media he would have been labeled much worse. Lebron was labeled a choker despite being like 26.
Durant just isn't the defender that Lebron is and he won't ever be due to his body. I can't see Durant totally taking out a star player defensively in a series like we've seen from Lebron in years past.
I also can't see Chris Paul ever guarding Lebron for a long stretch in a playoff game and it actually works either.
That's a very good post, but it's not Kevin Durant from 2012. Durant is a lot better now. He's closed the gap since 2012. It's not very big gap anymore. You give mostly solid reasons why LeBron is a little better.
It's not Durant fault he's not a 4. Ideally, he's not for the Thunder. He's playing the 4 out of necessity. The Spurs are a great team that LeBron had a very tough time beating. If the Heat had Durant, they would still beat the Pacers.
To compare the difference between Lebron and Durant. Lebron's career PER rating is 27.8 and in Miami it's 29.6.
Durant has only had a PER rating better than 27.8 twice which was the last two years. This year his MVP year it was 29.8 so in his best year his PER rating is on par with an average Lebron Miami season.
Lebron also in Miami has averaged 26.9 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.7 APG while shooting 54.3%/ 75.8%/36.9%
While Durant during this MVP year averaged 32.0 PPG, 7.4 RPG and 5.5 APG. Shot 50.3%/87.3%/39.1%
Before this season which was Durant's best year Lebron had led the NBA in PER rating six years in a row, led the league in win shares five years in a row. Led the league in offensive win shares four of the previous five seasons.
Durant had an amazing year but I think many are bored of Lebron because he has that same year every year. His average Miami season is on par with Durant's MVP year.
Lebron is asked to do more too. He's played PF 82% the last two years and even played center 9% last year. While Durant mainly plays SF as he plays SF 71% and years prior it was high 70%.
To compare the difference between Lebron and Durant. Lebron's career PER rating is 27.8 and in Miami it's 29.6.
Durant has only had a PER rating better than 27.8 twice which was the last two years. This year his MVP year it was 29.8 so in his best year his PER rating is on par with an average Lebron Miami season.
Lebron also in Miami has averaged 26.9 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.7 APG while shooting 54.3%/ 75.8%/36.9%
While Durant during this MVP year averaged 32.0 PPG, 7.4 RPG and 5.5 APG. Shot 50.3%/87.3%/39.1%
Before this season which was Durant's best year Lebron had led the NBA in PER rating six years in a row, led the league in win shares five years in a row. Led the league in offensive win shares four of the previous five seasons.
Durant had an amazing year but I think many are bored of Lebron because he has that same year every year. His average Miami season is on par with Durant's MVP year.
Lebron is asked to do more too. He's played PF 82% the last two years and even played center 9% last year. While Durant mainly plays SF as he plays SF 71% and years prior it was high 70%.
Those numbers are from basketball-reference.com
You're saying an "average Miami year" like that's a bad year. Fuck man, LeBron has killed it every year in Miami. The PER stats are proving my point. A few years ago, there was a large gap. PER shows that right now, the gap isn't very large.
That's a very good post, but it's not Kevin Durant from 2012. Durant is a lot better now. He's closed the gap since 2012. It's not very big gap anymore. You give mostly solid reasons why LeBron is a little better.
It's not Durant fault he's not a 4. Ideally, he's not for the Thunder. He's playing the 4 out of necessity. The Spurs are a great team that LeBron had a very tough time beating. If the Heat had Durant, they would still beat the Pacers.
I also think Lebron like most of the Heat coasted this year because of three deep playoff runs so his stats aren't a true measure of how great he is. I know that sounds like a cop out but the Heat coasted into the playoffs down the stretch.
Everyone struggles to a degree against the Spurs because Pop is a great coach who can game plan against anyone. However, Lebron was struggling scoring big against the Spurs. He was still getting his assists and rebounds. In fact a reporter said during the finals Pop's goal was for Lebron to average a triple double because that means he isn't dropping 30+ on them. Basically he'll live with others beating them not Lebron. That's why I like Pop as no other NBA coach would ever say I want their best player to average a triple double on us.
I think offensively the gap has closed and Lebron is still slightly better because of his passing. However the defense is why he's still the best. Durant isn't even a bad defender but at times Lebron can be the best defender in the game while at best Durant will never be that.
There's no better pure scorer than KD on the perimeter. I'm sure I'll get knocked on this, but he reminds me a lot of Dominique in the sense that he's an all-world offensive player, not a terrible defensive player, but not a guy that gets viewed as making his teammates significantly better. KD's better than 'Nique, but both are/were offensive powerhouses.
At this point, KD for as great as he is has some massive holes in his game (just like LBJ had at times some massive holes as well). KD is a decent passer but not a great passer. As was seen tonight on more than a few instances, LBJ used the the threat of what he could do to create easy opportunities for his teammates. KD isn't particularly good or great at this yet. One of KD's biggest advantages is that if you put a guy of comparable size on him he's too quick to be guarded. However, one of his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't use his height to punish teams when they put smaller guys on him. It's actually a shame in my mind that he hasn't put the work into being a great "post" player (and post for him probably means being 12-17 feet extended with the threat of the mid-range jumper or the quick blow by with a single dribble for either a floater or getting to the rim) because he has all the skill and shots in the world. Being a good post player is all about skill, footwork, and basketball IQ - things that he has in spades. He may not be the strongest guy in the world (and it would serve him well to get his ass in the gym to get a little bit stronger so that he can go to the post against smaller but stronger guys), but I don't think that that's necessary to be a great post player - particularly if you are a perimeter player at heart.
KD was also the deserving MVP this year given the talent on his roster and keeping that roster together despite losing Westbrook for long stretches. I think LBJ would agree that this wasn't his "best" year and that he coasted at times. Many confuse MVP with being the best player. LBJ is still the best player in the game.
I'd love for KD to play anywhere else so that it was easier to root for him. IMO, he has a decision to make at some point about being the best pure scorer to ever play the game or if he wants to win championships. If he wants to win championships, he'll need to eventually sacrifice some of his scoring and concentrate on other aspects of his game to play at a championship level. He's not there right now.
Lebron wasn't a good post player until 2012, spent summer of 2011 with Olajuwon after the 2011 finals where he was humbled.
Your post was spot on though. I don't think Durant makes his teammates better either. I look at guys like Reggie Jackson and Caron Butler and think on Miami they'd be key scorers off the bench.
In Durant's defense his coach is really bad and puts him/Westbrook in tough spots. Much like Mike Brown did Lebron.
Part of being a great player is getting humbled, getting your weaknesses exposed, and having the stones to spend the entire offseason working on those weaknesses.
We all like to go back and think Magic was this great offensive player that was given everything. He was a great passer that ran Showtime but wasn't always the greatest of offensive players in key spots early in his career. He had a number of meltdown moments in the 1984 Finals and took a ton of criticism for it.
If you go back and put yourself in the Bird vs. Magic discussion prior to the 1987 Finals, I'm pretty sure that everybody would have said Bird. But after the '84 disappointment and then getting run off the court in '86 by the Rockets, Magic rededicated himself and became the best player in the world at the time winning 3 of the next 4 MVP awards.
He may have had more athletic ability and skills at 22-24 ... but I don't think that there's any question that Magic would say that he was a far, far better player at 27 to 31.
Comments
Although Lebron's current game is reminding me of that game 5 against Boston.
LBJ is the best player in the world.
Big difference.
Come on man! Durant can't do the things that Lebron can. He can't make his teammates better, he can't play multiple positions, he can't post up like Lebron. He's a much better shooter that's his big advantage.
Like today Lebron wasn't scoring worth a shit but down by 7 late in the third quarter he drove the lane and drew a double team. Both times found the open guy who knocked down the three pointer. Without scoring a point he just gave his team six points to cut the lead to one heading into the final period. Durant has yet to show he can do something like that.
LeBron has a little more veteran saavy. His teammates do too. That's the real difference between the two.The Thunder were young when they lost to the Heat in the Finals. They are still a young team. Durant is already great, but his best years are ahead of him.
I also can't see Durant taking out the MVP in Derek Rose in 2011 either like Lebron can. The stats are close but the eye test shows Durant still has a long ways.
Just like in 2012 NBA Finals Lebron and Durant had similar numbers but when both were guarding each other down the stretch who was making the big plays? That was Lebron. It's why Lebron has a huge W-L all-time record against Durant because he typically makes the big plays down the stretch and can contain him defensively.
Proof was yesterday's game. How many times does Miami do what OKC tried to do where Lebron plays the 4? They do it a lot especially against San Antonio. Durant was getting killed defensively when he was asked to play the 4.
That's the biggest difference between the two, Lebron at times hasn't played as well defensively as years past. He is still light years ahead of Durant though as a defender and in making his teammates better. Lebron finds shooters and trusts his teammates while Durant still doesn't.
Now you could argue Durant doesn't because he has reason to much like Kobe during 2005-2007 which is reasonable. Still, Lebron changed the game today while not having a great scoring game. I don't remember Durant having that big of an impact when he's not scoring big.
First of all despite playing the same position they are different players. Also in the NBA you have to go through some heartbreak before you break through unless you inherit a HOF center like Magic or Kobe did.
Michael had his lumps where in today's media he would have been labeled much worse. Lebron was labeled a choker despite being like 26.
Durant just isn't the defender that Lebron is and he won't ever be due to his body. I can't see Durant totally taking out a star player defensively in a series like we've seen from Lebron in years past.
I also can't see Chris Paul ever guarding Lebron for a long stretch in a playoff game and it actually works either.
It's not Durant fault he's not a 4. Ideally, he's not for the Thunder. He's playing the 4 out of necessity. The Spurs are a great team that LeBron had a very tough time beating. If the Heat had Durant, they would still beat the Pacers.
Durant has only had a PER rating better than 27.8 twice which was the last two years. This year his MVP year it was 29.8 so in his best year his PER rating is on par with an average Lebron Miami season.
Lebron also in Miami has averaged 26.9 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.7 APG while shooting 54.3%/ 75.8%/36.9%
While Durant during this MVP year averaged 32.0 PPG, 7.4 RPG and 5.5 APG. Shot 50.3%/87.3%/39.1%
Before this season which was Durant's best year Lebron had led the NBA in PER rating six years in a row, led the league in win shares five years in a row. Led the league in offensive win shares four of the previous five seasons.
Durant had an amazing year but I think many are bored of Lebron because he has that same year every year. His average Miami season is on par with Durant's MVP year.
Lebron is asked to do more too. He's played PF 82% the last two years and even played center 9% last year. While Durant mainly plays SF as he plays SF 71% and years prior it was high 70%.
Those numbers are from basketball-reference.com
Everyone struggles to a degree against the Spurs because Pop is a great coach who can game plan against anyone. However, Lebron was struggling scoring big against the Spurs. He was still getting his assists and rebounds. In fact a reporter said during the finals Pop's goal was for Lebron to average a triple double because that means he isn't dropping 30+ on them. Basically he'll live with others beating them not Lebron. That's why I like Pop as no other NBA coach would ever say I want their best player to average a triple double on us.
I think offensively the gap has closed and Lebron is still slightly better because of his passing. However the defense is why he's still the best. Durant isn't even a bad defender but at times Lebron can be the best defender in the game while at best Durant will never be that.
At this point, KD for as great as he is has some massive holes in his game (just like LBJ had at times some massive holes as well). KD is a decent passer but not a great passer. As was seen tonight on more than a few instances, LBJ used the the threat of what he could do to create easy opportunities for his teammates. KD isn't particularly good or great at this yet. One of KD's biggest advantages is that if you put a guy of comparable size on him he's too quick to be guarded. However, one of his biggest weaknesses is that he doesn't use his height to punish teams when they put smaller guys on him. It's actually a shame in my mind that he hasn't put the work into being a great "post" player (and post for him probably means being 12-17 feet extended with the threat of the mid-range jumper or the quick blow by with a single dribble for either a floater or getting to the rim) because he has all the skill and shots in the world. Being a good post player is all about skill, footwork, and basketball IQ - things that he has in spades. He may not be the strongest guy in the world (and it would serve him well to get his ass in the gym to get a little bit stronger so that he can go to the post against smaller but stronger guys), but I don't think that that's necessary to be a great post player - particularly if you are a perimeter player at heart.
KD was also the deserving MVP this year given the talent on his roster and keeping that roster together despite losing Westbrook for long stretches. I think LBJ would agree that this wasn't his "best" year and that he coasted at times. Many confuse MVP with being the best player. LBJ is still the best player in the game.
I'd love for KD to play anywhere else so that it was easier to root for him. IMO, he has a decision to make at some point about being the best pure scorer to ever play the game or if he wants to win championships. If he wants to win championships, he'll need to eventually sacrifice some of his scoring and concentrate on other aspects of his game to play at a championship level. He's not there right now.
Your post was spot on though. I don't think Durant makes his teammates better either. I look at guys like Reggie Jackson and Caron Butler and think on Miami they'd be key scorers off the bench.
In Durant's defense his coach is really bad and puts him/Westbrook in tough spots. Much like Mike Brown did Lebron.
We all like to go back and think Magic was this great offensive player that was given everything. He was a great passer that ran Showtime but wasn't always the greatest of offensive players in key spots early in his career. He had a number of meltdown moments in the 1984 Finals and took a ton of criticism for it.
If you go back and put yourself in the Bird vs. Magic discussion prior to the 1987 Finals, I'm pretty sure that everybody would have said Bird. But after the '84 disappointment and then getting run off the court in '86 by the Rockets, Magic rededicated himself and became the best player in the world at the time winning 3 of the next 4 MVP awards.
He may have had more athletic ability and skills at 22-24 ... but I don't think that there's any question that Magic would say that he was a far, far better player at 27 to 31.