How am I going to be able to off my disabled kids now?
Comments
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It's a financial matter to Atl.Bendintheriver said:
No one is depriving anyone. You can have an abortion anytime you want. Plenty of places to get that done. You also can order the morning after pill if you want but that seems to be too much responsibility for rat voters.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
The woman on the video is the worst kind of human being. She represents the left and I want nothing to do with that or paying for rat voters to have an abortion. Fuck off if you think it is my obligation to financially support the decisions irresponsible people make. -
The Left wants abortion as their preferred BC method because they don't teach any personal responsibility. Most must have sluts for daughters, apparently. It's just too hard to practice simple BC methods. Much easier to stroll into PP after the fact and have your "mess" cleaned up by others.Bendintheriver said:
No one is depriving anyone. You can have an abortion anytime you want. Plenty of places to get that done. You also can order the morning after pill if you want but that seems to be too much responsibility for rat voters.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
The woman on the video is the worst kind of human being. She represents the left and I want nothing to do with that or paying for rat voters to have an abortion. Fuck off if you think it is my obligation to financially support the decisions irresponsible people make. -
HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
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No one said they did, fuck head. But way to show your ass…again. You just can’t help yourself to not comment on my posts. Rent free.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices. -
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway. -
I stand with the Creep on most all of this abortion stuff.
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you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other -
Goal posts just moved 100 milesHHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Fuck off -
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other -
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points. -
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling -
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies.
-
LieHHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies.
As usual
Backtracking already? -
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one. -
He knows his claim is a lie, he just doesn't care.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other -
And there's the strawman ass fuck.HHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies. -
So there are no late term abortions for healthy babies, that's your position, correct Dazzler?HHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies. -
Cons, you're debating a shit human being. Start there.
-
He should have done in 10 days earlier. No problemo then, according to our leftist friends.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/15/philadelphia-abortion-doctor-kermit-gosnell-sentenced-life -
And of course, after fucking a little strawman ass Dazzler runs away.SFGbob said:
So there are no late term abortions for healthy babies, that's your position, correct Dazzler?HHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies. -
It never happens and is illegal. Ok, it's legal some places but its rare. Well, its legal in Oregon because its important to the people the dazzler votes for. Geezus, I cited barry's vote against the Illinois born alive bill and Governor Northam of Virginia support of offing born alive babies. Of course, he just ignored the actual facts on the ground along with the Gosnell horror factory.SFGbob said:
And of course, after fucking a little strawman ass Dazzler runs away.SFGbob said:
So there are no late term abortions for healthy babies, that's your position, correct Dazzler?HHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies. -
While most abortions do happen in the first three months, there are plenty of late term abortions of healthy babies. Dazzler knows this because I've provided him with the numbers year ago when he and I first got into over this issue. His "Gerber baby" bullshit is just the standard strawman ass fuck he always uses when discussing this topic.WestlinnDuck said:
It never happens and is illegal. Ok, it's legal some places but its rare. Well, its legal in Oregon because its important to the people the dazzler votes for. Geezus, I cited barry's vote against the Illinois born alive bill and Governor Northam of Virginia support of offing born alive babies. Of course, he just ignored the actual facts on the ground along with the Gosnell horror factory.SFGbob said:
And of course, after fucking a little strawman ass Dazzler runs away.SFGbob said:
So there are no late term abortions for healthy babies, that's your position, correct Dazzler?HHusky said:
Gasbag thinks women are killing the Gerber baby in order to fit into their swimsuits, or they're doing it just because women are generally unstable and erratic.RaceBannon said:
From it doesn't happen to its rare and tragic in three postsHHusky said:
They are rare because the tragic circumstances under which they occur are rare.Sources said:
you couldn't be bothered with a 30 second Google search? You really do strive to live in the dark.HHusky said:
Fair enough. Are we seeing a lot of 9th month abortion tourism to those states?Sources said:HHusky said:
Better question: in which of the 50 states was this fantasy of yours ever legal?WestlinnDuck said:So why do the people you vote for support it if it never happens? Don't hurt yourself.
Maybe you don't have to prohibit something no one wants to do anyway.
Late term abortions are admittedly rare - around 1% I think. But the frequency doesn't justify a take the issue one or way or the other
Dazzling
If this was our first go round, you pretending that I don't acknowledge that there are rare cases of severe fetal abnormalities that result in women choosing late term abortions could be an honest misunderstanding. But this isn't our first go round. Women aren't choosing 9th month abortions of perfectly healthy babies. -
BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however. -
Yes, there is. And this is that good reason: nobody has been able to draw the very important distinction between having the moral relevance of (1) a clump of skin cells and (2) a person. I know: we draw lines of various degrees of precision all the time. 18 years old to drink and consent here, 21 there, etc. I get it. Need to do that to have any hope of an organized society.HHusky said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however.
But here, we're not talking about driving to Moscow to drink early in life or to get your driver's license. We're talking about a fairly fundamental point of existence: whether you can eliminate somebody or something, and whether you can't, based on whether they share the same moral agency you and I possess. There cannot be a line drawn between conception and the recently-born. At least, not an intellectually honest one.
I'm all ears if you have a better idea. -
Just going to sit over here and watch @HHusky attempt to dazzle @creepycoug .creepycoug said:
Yes, there is. And this is that good reason: nobody has been able to draw the very important distinction between having the moral relevance of (1) a clump of skin cells and (2) a person. I know: we draw lines of various degrees of precision all the time. 18 years old to drink and consent here, 21 there, etc. I get it. Need to do that to have any hope of an organized society.HHusky said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however.
But here, we're not talking about driving to Moscow to drink early in life or to get your driver's license. We're talking about a fairly fundamental point of existence: whether you can eliminate somebody or something, and whether you can't, based on whether they share the same moral agency you and I possess. There cannot be a line drawn between conception and the recently-born. At least, not an intellectually honest one.
I'm all ears if you have a better idea.
-
Weird how @HHusky slunk away...UW_Doog_Bot said:
Just going to sit over here and watch @HHusky attempt to dazzle @creepycoug .creepycoug said:
Yes, there is. And this is that good reason: nobody has been able to draw the very important distinction between having the moral relevance of (1) a clump of skin cells and (2) a person. I know: we draw lines of various degrees of precision all the time. 18 years old to drink and consent here, 21 there, etc. I get it. Need to do that to have any hope of an organized society.HHusky said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however.
But here, we're not talking about driving to Moscow to drink early in life or to get your driver's license. We're talking about a fairly fundamental point of existence: whether you can eliminate somebody or something, and whether you can't, based on whether they share the same moral agency you and I possess. There cannot be a line drawn between conception and the recently-born. At least, not an intellectually honest one.
I'm all ears if you have a better idea. -
Creep mops the floor with him. And it’s not close. It’s like an NBA player dunking on an 8th grader.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Just going to sit over here and watch @HHusky attempt to dazzle @creepycoug .creepycoug said:
Yes, there is. And this is that good reason: nobody has been able to draw the very important distinction between having the moral relevance of (1) a clump of skin cells and (2) a person. I know: we draw lines of various degrees of precision all the time. 18 years old to drink and consent here, 21 there, etc. I get it. Need to do that to have any hope of an organized society.HHusky said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however.
But here, we're not talking about driving to Moscow to drink early in life or to get your driver's license. We're talking about a fairly fundamental point of existence: whether you can eliminate somebody or something, and whether you can't, based on whether they share the same moral agency you and I possess. There cannot be a line drawn between conception and the recently-born. At least, not an intellectually honest one.
I'm all ears if you have a better idea. -
Well I'm not gonna be against an angry cuban man when I have designs on being his son in lawMikeDamone said:
Creep mops the floor with him. And it’s not close. It’s like an NBA player dunking on an 8th grader.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Just going to sit over here and watch @HHusky attempt to dazzle @creepycoug .creepycoug said:
Yes, there is. And this is that good reason: nobody has been able to draw the very important distinction between having the moral relevance of (1) a clump of skin cells and (2) a person. I know: we draw lines of various degrees of precision all the time. 18 years old to drink and consent here, 21 there, etc. I get it. Need to do that to have any hope of an organized society.HHusky said:BleachedAnusDawg said:
Schumer ran a 9 month abortion bill after the Supreme leak a couple months ago. The D's would pass that if they had the votes.HHusky said:
This thing that never happens, at least not legally, is always your go to.WestlinnDuck said:
So, you vote for people who think its fine to off the baby in the ninth month.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
Incest pregnancies are a thing that never happens, too, but I'm sure that's one of your go-to talking points.
Agreed.creepycoug said:
That doesn't work if you assign to the fetus a moral significance equal to that of a person. I do because I cannot logically do otherwise.HHusky said:
Pro-choice voter here.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Feel free not to have an abortion, but don't deprive others of their choices.
At that point, saying "don't have one but let me do it" is like saying "feel free to not murder people, but don't deprive others of their choice."
As arguments go, it's not a good one.
There's no good reason to do that, however.
But here, we're not talking about driving to Moscow to drink early in life or to get your driver's license. We're talking about a fairly fundamental point of existence: whether you can eliminate somebody or something, and whether you can't, based on whether they share the same moral agency you and I possess. There cannot be a line drawn between conception and the recently-born. At least, not an intellectually honest one.
I'm all ears if you have a better idea. -
Dazzler running away from another thread like a pussy. He’s getting another banger ready like Pelosi visiting the pope or something.
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Glad to see we? are back to unfortunate necessity.creepycoug said:
I think if there's no threat to the mother, that's the right call, albeit a difficult one. If it threatens the mother and the child has no viability, then it's a tougher call. Flies in the face of my philosophy on the matter, but still, one can't help allowing some practicality to seep in in that narrow fact pattern.MikeDamone said:
I know someone who found out their baby had only a brain stem or something like that. They carried the baby to term. She lived an hour or so. It was their decision and the only one they felt they could live with. They named her and had a private burial with just the two of them.creepycoug said:
Yeah, if I ever did see my way to an exception for abortion, it would not be for Down's. Not even close. Where you start maybe thinking it's ok is when the fetus has no brain tissue ... things of that nature. Even then, it's slippery.MikeDamone said:
Iceland cured Down’s syndromecreepycoug said:With the qualifier that my evolved view on abortion is sincere, let me say this, about that: this is where it gets really difficult, and the argument wanders over from abortion to euthanasia, the latter of which I support, though I support it for clear-thinking, autonomous human beings making an informed and free choice. The fetus can't do that.
We know children form in the womb with all manner of issues, including missing organs, screwed up DNA, etc. Incredibly difficult moral decisions with which to wrestle there. Not sure where I sit in those circumstances. I probably go back to the idea that we? are not allowed to play the role of Dr. Mengele or Roman Emperor and have to let nature LIPO. Sometimes that can be nothing short of brutal.
I'll say this, as well: shame on all who use these very difficult situations for political maneuvering. I don't care which way you want to argue it; if you don't really care about it and have never truly had a sincerely held view before now, I think it's bad form to feign moral indignation in the name of winning. But this is America and it's what we do.
I have, for real, had two people close to me with born-in health problems, one of whom is no longer with us. In the case of the one who is with us, that person has accomplished more in their early 20s than most of us will achieve in a lifetime, and that's no shit. What a fucking winner. The kind of kid with which nobody wants to be compared. The one who passed lived a somewhat short and extremely painful existence, and we all periodically look back and wonder if we did the right thing putting that person through what they went through, which on a good day was a level of suffering that would bring any one of us here to our knees.
They had quite a few shit stain humans criticizing them for it. I’d imagine the BidenBros of the time would have a meltdown over it.
Also we? are still playing Dr Mengle in the US. Get your 4th jab, bro! But I digress...
