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What happened to the screwball?
DerekJohnson
Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 70,270 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5HAN94cr4AComments
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Good stuff DJ (ILTCHDJ, IWILTD)...The screwball is comped to an opposite-side curveball, break and speed wise. In the early 80's, Frank Viola started throwing a "circle change up", which had most (if not all) of the characteristics of the screwgie, but was easier to teach, learn, and command. The key is more drag (skin) on the ball, decreasing velocity, and throwing "the circle" at the hitter, which creates pronation and produces the arm-side run-sink of the screwball.
Nowadays, it's all about velocity. The traditional curveball that I threw is a dinosaur, because it comes UP out of the hand, and good hitters can see it early. It matched up well with the circle change. It's a four-seam (straight) fastball world, at the top of the zone, and sliders/cutters on to off the plate, with velocity differential of 5-8 mph from the FB. In the day it was a 12-14 mph difference between the FB and curve/changeup.
Guys are throwing power breaking balls at 85-92, keeping their hand more behind the ball than on the side of it, short and sharp as opposed to big and loopy. The slider that I threw, which was pretty damn good (self-gloss POTD), had 4-6" of horizontal break, and about the same tilt...that's a cutter now. It matched up well with a 2-seam, sinking FB, that had the same break/tilt, in the opposite direction.
The plan is to "Tunnel", where you throw sequences of pitches dictated by the location of the previous pitch...EX: FB away for a strike, slider/cutter/ change up to the same spot, with movement and FB arm speed. Felix really had this going in the mid-teens, and at times had only 2-3 mph separation between his FB and change up...
Sorry to nerd-out, but I love this shit...
https://youtu.be/SC6I6F7uo-0
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Talking about tunneling, here is a good description of it, Alek Manoa, at the 3:13 mark...
https://youtu.be/kSQHsChfH4Y -
I saw Phil Niekro pitch in the Kingdome in the 1980s
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My first trip to Yankee Stadium in 84, I saw Phil pitch against the Mariners...IIRC, he gave up three hits, and the M's won because 2 of them were upper deck Ken Phelps bombs...
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Believe it or not, I remember that game. I would have been 13. Watching it on KSTW Channel 11.Fishpo31 said:My first trip to Yankee Stadium in 84, I saw Phil pitch against the Mariners...IIRC, he gave up three hits, and the M's won because 2 of them were upper deck Ken Phelps bombs...
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Four years later, Yankees send Jay Buhner to Seattle for Phelps..Fishpo31 said:My first trip to Yankee Stadium in 84, I saw Phil pitch against the Mariners...IIRC, he gave up three hits, and the M's won because 2 of them were upper deck Ken Phelps bombs...
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Obligatory…DerekJohnson said:
Four years later, Yankees send Jay Buhner to Seattle for Phelps..Fishpo31 said:My first trip to Yankee Stadium in 84, I saw Phil pitch against the Mariners...IIRC, he gave up three hits, and the M's won because 2 of them were upper deck Ken Phelps bombs...
https://youtu.be/cUwSxqnRW-8 -
Has the hitting approach to utilizing launch angle impacted this at all?
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Yes...Pitchers used to be classified as "East-West" (sinker, slider, change up, horizontal movement) or "North-South" (four seam FB, straight, 12/6 curveball), usually dictated by arm slot. Harder throwers were usually north-south guys.greenblood said:Has the hitting approach to utilizing launch angle impacted this at all?
It is now power vs power, max effort every pitch, combined with ridiculous late horizontal and vertical movement of secondary pitches. Everything looks like a FB out of the hand, and off speed pitches are a lot closer velocity-wise to fastballs than they were 10 years ago. Get to two strikes, and elevate the FB...
The "Art" of pitching is becoming extinct...if you can throw it 95+ with spin rate and have a reasonable facsimile of a breaking pitch, you are in the big leagues. If a guy goes 6 innings, gives up 6 hits and a walk, that used to be pretty good...today, it could mean 5 runs on the board, with three or four jacks. Kids don't learn to pitch today (nor do they want to), they train to throw hard. The hitting side of it is another story...
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absolute geniusFishpo31 said:
Obligatory…DerekJohnson said:
Four years later, Yankees send Jay Buhner to Seattle for Phelps..Fishpo31 said:My first trip to Yankee Stadium in 84, I saw Phil pitch against the Mariners...IIRC, he gave up three hits, and the M's won because 2 of them were upper deck Ken Phelps bombs...
https://youtu.be/cUwSxqnRW-8
