Mount Vernon (they went 4A during Locker's years but still) - Most kind of down the line Americana down the middle and big. Should have been pretty good but were always kind of soft. UCLA.
Having grown up in the area and played youth football against a lot of those teams, you were pretty spot on, and I had a good chuckle. Not that it matters, but Mt. Vernon went 4A the year that classification was created (I remember, as my school did as well, and we played them). Wikipedia says this happened in 1998, but I think it might have happened a year or two before that. So quite a ways before the Lockner years.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
In looking back, that was when things started to go south between me and Coker/DDY. I didn't realize it at the time.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
Hang on there, Sparky. I never guaranteed he was going to be a bust, and I never said my opinion was based on one game with six interceptions. I saw him play four games, and I saw various red flags in each of them. I said something like there should be deep concerns about him, especially the way he was handling adversity and having a meltdown in the huddle. When the mental pressure was on, he was overthrowing everybody by five feet. Other people, not you, were accusing me of rooting against Sirmon but that wasn't true either. I was just explaining what I saw and the hunches I had.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Confirmed it with my own eyes. I watched him throw six picks against the mighty Woodinville Falcons. 6!!! On that day, and maybe a few Saturday's watching the 2019 UW offense, a drunk fan like myself felt smarter than Petersen and several other big name college coaches who offered Sirmon a full ride based on height and arm strength alone.
I saw him throw 3 or 4 against last place, winless, hapless Inglemoor. Would have had another but Sirmon had the temerity to throw it right in the kid's chest plate and he couldn't haul it in.
This is wonderful but I'm still waiting on doing our extended pod on the sociodemographic of the former WIAA 3A Northwest League.
I got my fucking ass kicked by one of those Jake Locker Ferndale teams when he was an underclassman. He just handed it off to the rb for 6 yards a carry while I watched at corner, but still.
They viewed us as the pussy rich kid school with artificial turf and soft players, and they were right. I always wondered what the rest of their league was like, because we always played Olympia teams in the playoffs.
So even the OL brothers are a great get because of that school's rep. Well, hopefully we get the younger brother.
This is mostly for me and @JoeEDangerously but here's what the other teams in Locker's league were like, at least when he was there with a Pac-12 comparison.
Lynden - Large, Dutch farm kids who punished you but weren't mean. Hot blonde girls. Stanford, when they were good. Bellingham - White gangsters with a few minorities sprinkled in. Oregon. Squalicum - Soft rich kids terrible at football. Stanford, when they're bad. Sehome - Pre-Rapp was actually tough. Never remarkable but always had one really big kid and one really fast kid. Cal. Sedro-Woolley - Inbreds. Almost never good. Wait till wrestling season. Wait...no one cares. Oregon State. Burlington - Farm kids but also kind of preppy and weirdly standoffish and arrogant, but were always sneaky good, but never made sense given they weren't big, fast, or tough. Utah, when they're good. Anacortes - Disinterested semi-rich kids with old parents. A few old fishing family tough kids. Washington. Mount Vernon (they went 4A during Locker's years but still) - Most kind of down the line Americana down the middle and big. Should have been pretty good but were always kind of soft. UCLA.
Ferndale - Hard ass factory, refinery and farming kids whose families I assume couldn't afford to live in Bellingham and weren't clean cut enough for Lynden. Ohio State.
LOL
You could 1:1 map those roles with Greater St Helens during that time.
Except Ferndale. Like 1 year of Kelso was kind of on their level, but not really.
Probay could with most leagues outside of Seattle.
Could see that being the South of Seattle parallel to the Northwest League.
All I've ever heard about Kelso is WoolleyDoog's dad saying he knew a guy from there who did two tours of duty in Vietnam and never got shot but has been shot in Kelso on two separate occasions.
Kelso sucks. All the towns south of Olympia off of I-5 suck ass.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
At this point in my life, I don't believe arm talent is so rare that you take on a project between the ears. I'd say Eason level arm talent is probably still not growing on trees, but Sirmon level arm talent is every fucking where.
It's like recruiting a fast kid who can't catch the ball and has no field vision: he can't help you. I had a pretty good idea Sirmon wasn't going to pan out because of what I saw and because of what I learned right around that time. I lived vicarously through another Sirmon situation in the P12 through a buddy of mine. His kid was a fucking specimen athlete who could throw it a hundred miles and could run and do everything; but the game never slowed down for him visually and mentally, and there were signs in high school to this effect but his athleticism always fixed it. He got to his Pac 12 program very highly touted and, through his father, I know why he never started and had a shit career: he couldn't see the field and he had accuracy problems. A guy with 1/3 of his athletic ability beat him out and held the position.
Find guys who can throw on target and on time and who don't see chaos when they drop back. The extra velocity on the ball that a BSD arm talent gives you is icing on the icing of the cake. But the cake and base layer of icing is vision and accuracy. You're not trying to find and recruit John Elway, Warren Moon or Dan Marino. Those guys fall into your lap once every 50 years ... maybe.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
Sometimes I would even do mini features on great players from other teams. When Bothell won the state title, I did a large feature on them and interviewed Coach Bainter at length.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
DDY could be quite the arrogant fag at times when it came to tbs evaluations. I think it was all in fun. I call bullshit on Coker though. He was "guilty" of being wrong and defending himself when people jumped him for it as though he had stolen or something.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
DDY could be quite the arrogant fag at times when it came to tbs evaluations. I think it was all in fun. I call bullshit on Coker though. He was "guilty" of being wrong and defending himself when people jumped him for it as though he had stolen or something.
DDY was one of my favorite posters, even when acting like a petulant asshole. Loved me some DDY
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
DDY could be quite the arrogant fag at times when it came to tbs evaluations. I think it was all in fun. I call bullshit on Coker though. He was "guilty" of being wrong and defending himself when people jumped him for it as though he had stolen or something.
DDY was one of my favorite posters, even when acting like a petulant asshole. Loved me some DDY
I traded messages with him a couple of times near the end of my doogman days. I was also one of about 4 members, including him, of another board that started up but didn't take off. His DDY character didn't exist then as far as I know. He seemed like a really nice guy to me.
It took me forever, actually i was eventually spoonfed, to recognize him here. He's funny but I really don't care for the character.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
Hang on there, Sparky. I never guaranteed he was going to be a bust, and I never said my opinion was based on one game with six interceptions. I saw him play four games, and I saw various red flags in each of them. I said something like there should be deep concerns about him, especially the way he was handling adversity and having a meltdown in the huddle. When the mental pressure was on, he was overthrowing everybody by five feet. Other people, not you, were accusing me of rooting against Sirmon but that wasn't true either. I was just explaining what I saw and the hunches I had.
I never said you specifically said bust … but there were people running with your observations and extrapolating that he would be a bust
End of the day the hurdles you saw, and the issues I had heard about, he wasn’t able to overcome
My point was always that the talent was there to the point if you could get the mental figured out you could have a really good QB
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
At this point in my life, I don't believe arm talent is so rare that you take on a project between the ears. I'd say Eason level arm talent is probably still not growing on trees, but Sirmon level arm talent is every fucking where.
It's like recruiting a fast kid who can't catch the ball and has no field vision: he can't help you. I had a pretty good idea Sirmon wasn't going to pan out because of what I saw and because of what I learned right around that time. I lived vicarously through another Sirmon situation in the P12 through a buddy of mine. His kid was a fucking specimen athlete who could throw it a hundred miles and could run and do everything; but the game never slowed down for him visually and mentally, and there were signs in high school to this effect but his athleticism always fixed it. He got to his Pac 12 program very highly touted and, through his father, I know why he never started and had a shit career: he couldn't see the field and he had accuracy problems. A guy with 1/3 of his athletic ability beat him out and held the position.
Find guys who can throw on target and on time and who don't see chaos when they drop back. The extra velocity on the ball that a BSD arm talent gives you is icing on the icing of the cake. But the cake and base layer of icing is vision and accuracy. You're not trying to find and recruit John Elway, Warren Moon or Dan Marino. Those guys fall into your lap once every 50 years ... maybe.
I don’t disagree with this at all
QB is about way more than arm talent
That said you can absolutely learn some of the “soft skills” as well …
If you know you’re taking a high volatility prospect you probably need to have a safer option on hand as well
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
This is not a comment on Derek at all, and not meant to insult anyone else.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Ehh, they chose to ignore some blatant red flags. Kid starts right after Bothell wins a state title and throws six picks and plays shitty against anyone with a pulse.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
@chuck is right in that the goal is to build up the positions and go from there
It’s one of the reasons that I’ve never been big on any particular recruit … there’s a big jump HS to college and until they hit the field you never really know … in that case Roadie I agree with you that recruiting can be overrated
But on the other hand, recruiting absolutely matters because it’s how you build the talent on the roster
Part of the challenge in college recruiting is that you’re recruiting unfinished products … players will get better while some stall out in development. When you’re a program like UW that isn’t getting the top 5 stars you have to look for players that you can develop with the attributes that can be at that level when it comes to the NFL. Sometimes the players develop … sometimes they don’t. When you hit at a high rate you get the CFP caliber rosters. When you don’t hit/develop you get some down seasons.
This thread would be much more interesting if we could fold in a little Bothell Couger football chat.
Jacob Sirmon sucked and it was obvious from his days at Bothell.
Derek did call that out from the beginning, and the TSIO daWgs didn't accept that (Hi @Tequilla )
There's even a juicy @Dennis_DeYoung post where he rips Derek for devaluating Sirmon because of a high school rivalry. (I still love DDY/FuckRobot for what it's worth).
But when @BendDawg24 confirms it you know it's true.
Stubborn arrogance. I can’t imagine thinking a Hudl film validates my opinion against a guy that had seen Sirmon play in person multiple times.
The thing about Sirmon for me was that it was always about getting someone with very obvious arm talent into the picture and trying to develop the skills.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
Hang on there, Sparky. I never guaranteed he was going to be a bust, and I never said my opinion was based on one game with six interceptions. I saw him play four games, and I saw various red flags in each of them. I said something like there should be deep concerns about him, especially the way he was handling adversity and having a meltdown in the huddle. When the mental pressure was on, he was overthrowing everybody by five feet. Other people, not you, were accusing me of rooting against Sirmon but that wasn't true either. I was just explaining what I saw and the hunches I had.
I've never really understood what the beef was until now. I don't live on the main bored like I did from 2013-2015 though.
Comments
And, yeah, they were weirdly never very good.
The reason I was pretty against the whole idea that 6 INTs in a high school game guaranteed a bust is because it assumes that players won’t grow and improve.
I’ve been pretty vocal over the years that the reason you develop high end players over and over is because busts happen and by creating competition you do your best to ensure a good player emerges
Lots of HS recruits turn out to be busts
Still, Bothell >> Skyline, Woodinhood, etc.
It's like recruiting a fast kid who can't catch the ball and has no field vision: he can't help you. I had a pretty good idea Sirmon wasn't going to pan out because of what I saw and because of what I learned right around that time. I lived vicarously through another Sirmon situation in the P12 through a buddy of mine. His kid was a fucking specimen athlete who could throw it a hundred miles and could run and do everything; but the game never slowed down for him visually and mentally, and there were signs in high school to this effect but his athleticism always fixed it. He got to his Pac 12 program very highly touted and, through his father, I know why he never started and had a shit career: he couldn't see the field and he had accuracy problems. A guy with 1/3 of his athletic ability beat him out and held the position.
Find guys who can throw on target and on time and who don't see chaos when they drop back. The extra velocity on the ball that a BSD arm talent gives you is icing on the icing of the cake. But the cake and base layer of icing is vision and accuracy. You're not trying to find and recruit John Elway, Warren Moon or Dan Marino. Those guys fall into your lap once every 50 years ... maybe.
But...most of the posters here don't understand, or intentionally pretend not to so they can pull the "DDY was wrong" card, the nuances of good TBSing. The idea those guys promoted was simply to overstock every position with physical specimens and let competition and good coaching sort talented but shitty players from talented but good ones. Elite recruiting schools have plenty of 4* and even 5* busts. It just isn't a big deal since they have a lot of them.
Everyone, including them, has always been aware that physical talent was no guarantee of stardom or even success. All of the "DDY and Coker wanted him and now he sucks so they don't know what they're talking about" shit just misses the point.
Smalls making absolutely no impact on Kennedy’s porous defense was another red flag, but hey, high school doesn’t matter.
I’ll give you that if you state an opinion on every prospect UW signs, you are going to miss on some. They were right about Rapp. They missed incredibly bad on many others. I went and looked at old threads a couple of weeks ago. They made Eklund look like he was a decent evaluator.
It doesn’t matter at all, but both had plenty of arrogant moments and this board always gives beatings for incorrect takes.
It’s no secret Derek was pulling for Woodinville, but if Sirmon carved them up for 400 yards and 5 TD’s, I’m sure he would be praising Sirmon. Lastly, this is Washington high school football. Four and five star guys should be expected to absolutely dominate. No recent four or five star played for a 2-8 type team and did everything they could for them. The only recent guy I can recall in a situation like that was Rapp.
It took me forever, actually i was eventually spoonfed, to recognize him here. He's funny but I really don't care for the character.
End of the day the hurdles you saw, and the issues I had heard about, he wasn’t able to overcome
My point was always that the talent was there to the point if you could get the mental figured out you could have a really good QB
QB is about way more than arm talent
That said you can absolutely learn some of the “soft skills” as well …
If you know you’re taking a high volatility prospect you probably need to have a safer option on hand as well
It’s one of the reasons that I’ve never been big on any particular recruit … there’s a big jump HS to college and until they hit the field you never really know … in that case Roadie I agree with you that recruiting can be overrated
But on the other hand, recruiting absolutely matters because it’s how you build the talent on the roster
Part of the challenge in college recruiting is that you’re recruiting unfinished products … players will get better while some stall out in development. When you’re a program like UW that isn’t getting the top 5 stars you have to look for players that you can develop with the attributes that can be at that level when it comes to the NFL. Sometimes the players develop … sometimes they don’t. When you hit at a high rate you get the CFP caliber rosters. When you don’t hit/develop you get some down seasons.