Russ to Denver
Comments
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Your citing Pro Bowls? Its a popularity contest. 1 All-Pro in 10 years. That will never improve. No MVP votes. This certainly wont go up. At best Hall of very good. As of now, he is battling for the last wild card spot in the AFC. Decent chance they don't even make the playoffs. This won't put him over the top to get in.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best. -
Players top 100, pro bowl, passer rating, TD: INT - there's a plethora of metrics that show Russ is easily a top 10 QB over the span of his career.KrunkJuice said:
Your citing Pro Bowls? Its a popularity contest. 1 All-Pro in 10 years. That will never improve. No MVP votes. This certainly wont go up. At best Hall of very good. As of now, he is battling for the last wild card spot in the AFC. Decent chance they don't even make the playoffs. This won't put him over the top to get in.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best.
You have yet to point to one that suggests he's not.
Still waiting. -
RaceBannon said:
Checkdnc said:I agree the HOF bar is too low and Eli doesn’t deserve to be in.
If Eli is a HOFer then Bill Russell better be your NBA GOAT because all you care about is rings.
Russell
Jabar
Magic
Michael
LeBron
Van Nostrom -
stop bullying Krunkjuicednc said:
Players top 100, pro bowl, passer rating, TD: INT - there's a plethora of metrics that show Russ is easily a top 10 QB over the span of his career.KrunkJuice said:
Your citing Pro Bowls? Its a popularity contest. 1 All-Pro in 10 years. That will never improve. No MVP votes. This certainly wont go up. At best Hall of very good. As of now, he is battling for the last wild card spot in the AFC. Decent chance they don't even make the playoffs. This won't put him over the top to get in.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best.
You have yet to point to one that suggests he's not.
Still waiting. -
Lol now we are citing the meaningless players vote. Should have also added last time he wasn't All Decade and won't be on the next one either. Those will be reserved for Aaron Rodgers/Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes. Actual Hall of Fam level players. Now we are at no All Decade Team, no MVP votes in 10 years, 1 all pro team team in 10 years. You don't get put in the HOF on metrics. You are put in on accomplishments and he won't achieve anymore of those. Denver isn't really a QB away and now they have no meaningful draft picks and will have to pay him after this year. The window has already closed on them.dnc said:
Players top 100, pro bowl, passer rating, TD: INT - there's a plethora of metrics that show Russ is easily a top 10 QB over the span of his career.KrunkJuice said:
Your citing Pro Bowls? Its a popularity contest. 1 All-Pro in 10 years. That will never improve. No MVP votes. This certainly wont go up. At best Hall of very good. As of now, he is battling for the last wild card spot in the AFC. Decent chance they don't even make the playoffs. This won't put him over the top to get in.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best.
You have yet to point to one that suggests he's not.
Still waiting. -
I have no dog in this fight. I hate the Seahawks. I hate the 12s. I hate RW because he’s been a 49ers killer over his career.
To say RW is not top 10 is kinda far fetched to me. I wouldn’t call him top 5 as that group includes Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, Allen, Manning before his arm fell off, and probably a few others.
This article on CBS Sports prompted this poast.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-how-qb-landscape-changed-forever-as-carousel-goes-off-rails-plus-biggest-winner-next-move/
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Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years. -
Listening to Greg Olsen describe what things were like behind the scenes with Pete Carroll makes me realize that Pete is fully to blame for Seattle's decayTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans. -
No, Kim.DerekJohnson said:
Is that what he told you?TheHB said:Watson doesn't want to play in the PNW.
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I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years. -
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"Everybody's opinion is meaningless" says person with completely asinine opinion.KrunkJuice said:
Lol now we are citing the meaningless players vote. Should have also added last time he wasn't All Decade and won't be on the next one either. Those will be reserved for Aaron Rodgers/Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes. Actual Hall of Fam level players. Now we are at no All Decade Team, no MVP votes in 10 years, 1 all pro team team in 10 years. You don't get put in the HOF on metrics. You are put in on accomplishments and he won't achieve anymore of those. Denver isn't really a QB away and now they have no meaningful draft picks and will have to pay him after this year. The window has already closed on them.dnc said:
Players top 100, pro bowl, passer rating, TD: INT - there's a plethora of metrics that show Russ is easily a top 10 QB over the span of his career.KrunkJuice said:
Your citing Pro Bowls? Its a popularity contest. 1 All-Pro in 10 years. That will never improve. No MVP votes. This certainly wont go up. At best Hall of very good. As of now, he is battling for the last wild card spot in the AFC. Decent chance they don't even make the playoffs. This won't put him over the top to get in.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best.
You have yet to point to one that suggests he's not.
Still waiting. -
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I agree with you but there's something about Russ that keeps me from summoning the energy to even read all that, much less expend effort to come up with my own stuff in his defense. He's just such a disingenuous and cringeworthy dude and I don't care that he's gone. Plus, his wife cucked him, which means he can't be a real man. Then again, I don't care about the Seahawks either, so there's that.dnc said:I'd love for you to back up your assertion that he's top 10ish for his career with any sort of objective metric.
I already gave you the players top 100 perspective.
Pro Bowl:
2012: 1 of 11 (last NFL alternate so you could argue as low as 11th)
2013: 1 of 6 originally selected
2014: 1 of 6 originally selected
2015: 1 of 6 originally selected, starter
2016: Not selected
2017: 1 of 6 originally selected
2018: 1 of 12 (first NFC alternate, so you could argue as low as 10th)
2019: 1 of 6 originally selected, selected as starter
2020: 1 of 6 originally selected
2021: 1 of 10 (second NFC alternate, you could argue as low as 10th)
Brady has been to 9 Pro Bowls in that time. Rodgers has been to 8. Brees went to 7 in his 9 years of this span.
Big Ben went to 6...total in his career. Matt Ryan's been to 4 total. Mahomes has been to 4 straight. Eli went to 4 total. Lamar's been to 2 in 4 seasons. Cam made 3. Matt Stafford and Josh Allen have been to 1.
Russ has firmly been inside the top 10 the vast majority of his career, and is probably around an average of the 5th best QB at any given point in his career. I get you don't like the guy and that's fine. He's not especially likable.
I doubt you have any real argument for his as "top 10ish" for his career. You certainly don't have any argument for "pretty good at best". At his best he's absolutely the elite of the elite. I agree he's not been that consistently. But he's been a lot better than pretty good, and certainly better than pretty good at best. -
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A lot of interesting takes in this thread!
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So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years. -
As Russ's value keeps dropping the draft pick return the Hawks got keeps increasing. It really is the Jamal Adams deal all over again.
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I'm very happy he's tanking so far but I am shocked. I will also remind us that the season isn't over. I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't have a sense of where things are going wrong. But I'm not sure I care enough to watch. Anyway, it's amazing that the offense would be so awful.Baseman said:
So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years. -
It’s the exact same things that were going wrong in Seattle. Blaming O line not blocking (even though they were puffing out their chest that Russ won’t get hit like he did in Seattle), wide receivers not getting open (which they are Russ is just criminally missing them), and playcalling (which is hilarious because all off season we were told this offense is 50/50 decision between Hackett and Russ).DerekJohnson said:
I'm very happy he's tanking so far but I am shocked. I will also remind us that the season isn't over. I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't have a sense of where things are going wrong. But I'm not sure I care enough to watch. Anyway, it's amazing that the offense would be so awful.Baseman said:
So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years.
Russ and Hackett are where things are going wrong. -
Yeah it's the same things going wrong just without any of the things that went right - the deep ball, putting a clutch late drive together to win it after struggling most of the game, etc. It's been like all of Russ's worst Seahawks games back to back to back to back to back to start his Denver career.CuntWaffle said:
It’s the exact same things that were going wrong in Seattle. Blaming O line not blocking (even though they were puffing out their chest that Russ won’t get hit like he did in Seattle), wide receivers not getting open (which they are Russ is just criminally missing them), and playcalling (which is hilarious because all off season we were told this offense is 50/50 decision between Hackett and Russ).DerekJohnson said:
I'm very happy he's tanking so far but I am shocked. I will also remind us that the season isn't over. I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't have a sense of where things are going wrong. But I'm not sure I care enough to watch. Anyway, it's amazing that the offense would be so awful.Baseman said:
So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years.
Russ and Hackett are where things are going wrong.
He might really be cooked. -
CuntWaffle said:
It’s the exact same things that were going wrong in Seattle. Blaming O line not blocking (even though they were puffing out their chest that Russ won’t get hit like he did in Seattle), wide receivers not getting open (which they are Russ is just criminally missing them), and playcalling (which is hilarious because all off season we were told this offense is 50/50 decision between Hackett and Russ).DerekJohnson said:
I'm very happy he's tanking so far but I am shocked. I will also remind us that the season isn't over. I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't have a sense of where things are going wrong. But I'm not sure I care enough to watch. Anyway, it's amazing that the offense would be so awful.Baseman said:
So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years.
Russ and Hackett are where things are going wrong.
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KrunkJuice said:CuntWaffle said:
It’s the exact same things that were going wrong in Seattle. Blaming O line not blocking (even though they were puffing out their chest that Russ won’t get hit like he did in Seattle), wide receivers not getting open (which they are Russ is just criminally missing them), and playcalling (which is hilarious because all off season we were told this offense is 50/50 decision between Hackett and Russ).DerekJohnson said:
I'm very happy he's tanking so far but I am shocked. I will also remind us that the season isn't over. I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't have a sense of where things are going wrong. But I'm not sure I care enough to watch. Anyway, it's amazing that the offense would be so awful.Baseman said:
So did the Broncos front officeDerekJohnson said:
I think Russ's best seasons are still to comeTheHB said:Seattle was never gonna win another Super Bowl with Wilson -- not as long as Jody Allen owns the team and leaves everything up to Carroll. Only way it could happen would be a total overhaul in the front office and coaching staff, and that's not in the cards. But besides that, you'd have to be blind not to see that Wilson has plateaued and he's just getting older with more off-field distractions. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start getting hurt every year. Time has a way of catching up with you -- especially when you've been pretty injury resistant your first 10 years.
2022 will be very painful for Seahawks fans.
Edited to add: There is no way in hell Wilson plays 10 more years.
Russ and Hackett are where things are going wrong.
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Any Hooks able to now admit that he's nowhere close to HOF material?
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Some of us twooelves actually never wanted the first extension believe it or not. No I don’t have receipts to prove this was my position and I wasn’t kicking and screaming for it. Just felt like the Hawks built that team and found enough dominant players everywhere else that Russell wasn’t the only QB that could have won a ring (😞) with them. He obviously was incredible for a lot of that, would never say otherwise. But always been curious what would have happened if they just kept drafting QBs for leverage rather than bow to the “Super Bowl Winning QB” as is the NFL status quo. The NFL status quo is often fucking stupid. Hawks have a chance to do it again and have essentially aced draft 1 of what should be a 2/3 draft rebuild (tops). Just hope they don’t rush to draft a QB when they keep drafting difference makers and plug someone in there in 2024.BleachedAnusDawg said:Any Hooks able to now admit that he's nowhere close to HOF material?
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I have greatly soured on Rusty but when it comes to the HOF yes he is at least in the discussionBleachedAnusDawg said:Any Hooks able to now admit that he's nowhere close to HOF material?
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Watching Josh Allen and Mahomes play against each other yesterday it's just a shame the Hawks didn't do what they wanted to and traded Rusty for the pick
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If he's completely washed he probably doesn't make the Hall. He's had bad stretches before though, I'm not convinced he's completely washed. He's certainly "close" based on what he's done through this season. LIPO.BleachedAnusDawg said:Any Hooks able to now admit that he's nowhere close to HOF material?
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Washed. That Super Bowl they won could've been accomplished with Trent Dilfer at QB. HOF needs to close the gates.
I also think far too many players get in to their respective HOF in every sport, though. Nothing about Wilson screams generational talent or transformative player. I don't think he's ever been one of the top-5 qb's in a season during his career.
