Thunder won't win a title because they have a bad coach and terrible roster construction after the top 3 guys. Yes, Westbrook takes some bad shots, but you are talking about isolated plays. Durant's the one who gave the ball up in the final 10 seconds. That's not Westbrook's fault. Last year, when the Thunder lost 4-1 to the Grizzlies should have shut up the Westbrook bullshit. They need him to do his thing, and part of that, is living with some reckless play and poor shot selection.
The Thunder rely on Perkins, Sefolosha, Caron Butler, and Derek Fisher. Those are some shitty players getting playing time, especially Perkins, Butler, and Fisher. Tough to win a title with those guys playing good minutes. Scott BrooksFS barely even played Reggie Jackson, the only role player worth a shit on the entire team.
Absolutely agree on roster construction - and that falls on Sam Presti.
Brooks isn't the greatest of coaches - but at the same time, he's also playing the hand that Presti dealt him ... and the hand that is dealt to him is tied to the fact that they have cheap ass owners that aren't willing to pay the luxury tax in pursuit of a title.
I'd also like to congratulate Westbrook for dominating the ball when he should give it up to Durant. As long as Westbrook thinks he's as good as Durant and doesn't accept his role, they'll continue to have significant issues.
You actually believe this? Durant gets plenty of shots. Westbrook has his faults, but he's a great player. Scott Brooks is the problem, not Westbrook.
WestbrookFS is a great talent but has a 5cent brain. The "quality" of shots that he took with plenty of time on the shot clock was criminal EVEN without a KD on your roster. As long as Westbrook continues to think He is the man, the Thunder be struck down.
OKC needs a pg, not another superstar. Not a guy who shoots the ball 3 times as much as the scoring champ on the other side of the court in the 4th and OT. They are and will be better off with Reggie Jackson playing pt. Only because Westbrook doesn't get it.
How are they going to get this PG? Who is the last "true" PG to win a title? Everyone knows Westbrook takes some bad shots and can play out of control. They need a new coach and some better role players and they will win some titles.
Put it this way, the Heat have a pretty bad roster after the Big 3. I will take guys 4-10 on the Heat over the Thunder. That's how bad their roster is.
I'd also like to congratulate Westbrook for dominating the ball when he should give it up to Durant. As long as Westbrook thinks he's as good as Durant and doesn't accept his role, they'll continue to have significant issues.
You actually believe this? Durant gets plenty of shots. Westbrook has his faults, but he's a great player. Scott Brooks is the problem, not Westbrook.
WestbrookFS is a great talent but has a 5cent brain. The "quality" of shots that he took with plenty of time on the shot clock was criminal EVEN without a KD on your roster. As long as Westbrook continues to think He is the man, the Thunder be struck down.
OKC needs a pg, not another superstar. Not a guy who shoots the ball 3 times as much as the scoring champ on the other side of the court in the 4th and OT. They are and will be better off with Reggie Jackson playing pt. Only because Westbrook doesn't get it.
How are they going to get this PG? Who is the last "true" PG to win a title? Everyone knows Westbrook takes some bad shots and can play out of control. They need a new coach and some better role players and they will win some titles.
Put it this way, the Heat have a pretty bad roster after the Big 3. I will take guys 4-10 on the Heat over the Thunder. That's how bad their roster is.
Many talk about Harden leaving OKC as this horrible thing for them - not the case at all. Durant is more than capable of eating up those shots and scoring at a high rate (which Harden does as well). With Harden on the roster, what you'd end up getting is 3 guys taking turns going 1 on 1 ... that actually is relatively easy to defend (see the '77 NBA Finals for a history lesson on that).
The biggest miss for OKC is that they haven't surrounded the roster with much talent that can take the load off of Durant and Westbrook to help make them more efficient.
This is completely bullshit. With Harden that is just another guy who can take over. Also it would be harder to double up Durant when you have Harden, Ibaka and Westbrook on the floor.
Also getting three studs is the recipe to success. Bird-Mchale-Parrish , Magic-Kareem-Worthy, Duncan-Parker-Ginoboli, Lebron-Wade-Bosh. The only time you don't need three studs is if you have two great players one of which is by far and away the best player in the game in Shaq-Kobe or Michael-Pippen. Even Michael-Pippen had a Grant or Rodman.
The game of basketball isn't a 1 on 1 game - just doesn't work that way. The biggest flaw with OKC is that they tend to rely on isolations and 1 on 1 play. That just doesn't work at the highest levels. Having Harden on the roster wouldn't fix that and only accentuate the problem because while you can get away with driving/kicking to Durant, that doesn't really work with Westbrook (because it requires him to hit standstill jumpers - not a strength) and Harden thrives as a guy with the ball in his hand. The crime wasn't trading Harden ... the crime was what they got back for him. They could and should have done better.
I'm well aware of the concept of the best teams of all time having 3 great players as it's core. But you are missing a very key point in your "recipe for success"
Durant-Westbrook-Harden = 3 perimeter based players Bird-McHale-Parish = entire front court - controlled the paint and glass Magic-Kareem-Worthy = PG controlling pace, arguably the best center of all time (w/ Russell), and one of the most underrated forwards in the history of the game that could score on anybody but thrive without having the ball in his hands (all 3 were 6'9" and above) Duncan-Parker-Ginobili = PG controlling pace, slashing wing that could create a shot at any time and arguably the best PF to ever play the game controlling the paint LBJ-Wade-Bosh = Possibly the closest of comparisons to Durant-Westbrook-Harden and not even close really in that; LBJ is a dominating player in the paint on both ends; Wade is a slashing wing that is most comfortable going to the hoop and in today's game what he does is comparable to what good post players were able to do in getting to the line; Bosh is a career 19-9 guy playing PF.
Even your bringing up of MJ and Pippen is an issue because even though both were wings, both lived in the paint and on top of that were arguably the most dominant defensive players at their positions in the game - something none of the OKC guys are ever accused of.
OKC bet on Ibaka being the 3rd best player in their group and adding an interior guy to their dominance and he's not that guy.
The best way for OKC to win is to surround KD and Westbrook with a bunch of guys that can hit open jump shots and expose rotation defenses - think about having 1-2 Chandler Parsons types of players on your roster. Ultimately, that's what they should be looking for.
Trading away a top 10 player in Harden is a big problem. He's another guy who can take the pressure off of Westbrook and Durant. In fact he was basically their PG down the stretch as he'd handle the ball and is a much better creator than Westbrook.
Westbrook also slides into 2 guard which is what he's naturally built for. Getting rid of Harden cost them a title this year and possibly even last year.
They also got NOTHING for Harden. Not one guy from that trade has contributed for them this year and barely last year(Martin sucked in the playoffs).
You forget Harden and Westbrook despite being volume shooters still rack up Assists. They also rack up FT attempts along with Durant meaning every opponent they play would be in foul trouble.
I'd also like to congratulate Westbrook for dominating the ball when he should give it up to Durant. As long as Westbrook thinks he's as good as Durant and doesn't accept his role, they'll continue to have significant issues.
You actually believe this? Durant gets plenty of shots. Westbrook has his faults, but he's a great player. Scott Brooks is the problem, not Westbrook.
WestbrookFS is a great talent but has a 5cent brain. The "quality" of shots that he took with plenty of time on the shot clock was criminal EVEN without a KD on your roster. As long as Westbrook continues to think He is the man, the Thunder be struck down.
OKC needs a pg, not another superstar. Not a guy who shoots the ball 3 times as much as the scoring champ on the other side of the court in the 4th and OT. They are and will be better off with Reggie Jackson playing pt. Only because Westbrook doesn't get it.
How are they going to get this PG? Who is the last "true" PG to win a title? Everyone knows Westbrook takes some bad shots and can play out of control. They need a new coach and some better role players and they will win some titles.
Put it this way, the Heat have a pretty bad roster after the Big 3. I will take guys 4-10 on the Heat over the Thunder. That's how bad their roster is.
As long as Westbrook decides that He is the man instead of Durant in close games, they will lose them 3/4 of the time. You can't "take as many bad shots and play as out of control" as he does and win many playoff series. I know if I was Durant, I'd want to see him dealt away.
Last nights game in the 4th quarter. Kevin Durant - 4/4. Russell Westbrook 4/12. That ratio fucking blows especially when the leagues best scorer is hitting every shot including a crazy circus shot and 1 3-pointer.
This won't hurt them against a team like the Grizz, they should still take this series rather easily in 6. Memphis played out of their minds last night to get that win while the Thunder looked like they were on cruise control but just couldn't hit that 1 shot to break the game open, that is going to happen.
However, against a team like the Heat that is going to completely bite them in the ass. This is where a good coach comes in and reminds Russell he didn't win the MVP so he needs to find Durant more at the end of games especially when he is on fire.
Trading away a top 10 player in Harden is a big problem. He's another guy who can take the pressure off of Westbrook and Durant. In fact he was basically their PG down the stretch as he'd handle the ball and is a much better creator than Westbrook.
Westbrook also slides into 2 guard which is what he's naturally built for. Getting rid of Harden cost them a title this year and possibly even last year.
They also got NOTHING for Harden. Not one guy from that trade has contributed for them this year and barely last year(Martin sucked in the playoffs).
You forget Harden and Westbrook despite being volume shooters still rack up Assists. They also rack up FT attempts along with Durant meaning every opponent they play would be in foul trouble.
Good post. Let's not forget they made it to the title game, beating a very good San Antonio team in the Western Conference Finals. All three guys (4 with Ibaka) were young, and young teams normally go through bumps before winning it all. How is breaking up a Finals team with the 4 best players all under 24 not a bad thing (directed at Tequilla)? LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were playoff tested and went through their own adversity the year before.
You never trade away All Star's, unless you are getting an All Star in return. They didn't need to trade away Harden and would have been better off keeping him for another season. Tequilla's premise is fine that having a couple of Chandler Parsens would be a better fit, but this isn't fantasy basketball. First of all, Chandler Parsons will probably be making 10 million after this year. One max level James Harden is about the same price as two mid level exception guys. Not to mention the Thunder are cheap and aren't a destination for most NBA players because it is Oklahoma.
Westbrook takes too many shots, without question. But part of the reason Durant only got 28 shots last night is Tony Allen frustrated the hell out of him when he was guarding him. TA was the MVP of that game for Memphis, with Westbrook in an AuburnDawgesque tie for second with Randolph.
Last night was the perfect example of a game where OKC missed Harden incredibly badly.
Tony Allen is the best perimeter defender in the league ... if anybody is going to slow KD down, he's got as much chance as anybody.
What I was referencing was the 28 shots each for KD and Westbrook ... last night wasn't the first time it has happened. It won't be the last time either. And it wasn't 28 shots each because of Tony Allen's presence on the court. Westbrook does this stuff all the time regardless.
Tony Allen is the best perimeter defender in the league ... if anybody is going to slow KD down, he's got as much chance as anybody.
What I was referencing was the 28 shots each for KD and Westbrook ... last night wasn't the first time it has happened. It won't be the last time either. And it wasn't 28 shots each because of Tony Allen's presence on the court. Westbrook does this stuff all the time regardless.
But you're missing the bigger point here, which is without Harden they don't have anybody else to take those shots.
It's either Durant or Westbrook.
It's not like Durant only getting 28 shots is some travesty. 28 is plenty of shots. The problem is without Harden they don't have anyone to take Westbrook's shots down to the 15-18 range where they belong.
But yes, I do believe Allen had something to do with why Durant was at 28 and not at 34.
But what you're getting at DNC is that the FS one of the group starts with Sam Presti for a fucktarded roster creation, then heads to Scott BrooksFS for creating an environment where there is a clear out left and right, and then to Westbrook for not doing more to create easy shots for others and instead defaults to his own shots.
When Harden was on the roster, the offense consisted of the 3 of them being on the court, figuring out who had the mismatch, and more or less playing isolation ball with the best matchup on the court. That's NOT going to win you a title.
The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that they won't win a title with a KD and Westbrook combo and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them leaves OKC when their current contract expires. We'll see how good of a NBA market that is AFTER they go into the crapper and don't have a generational talent to watch each and every night.
Westbrook tak too many shots, without question. But part of the reason Durant only got 28 shots last night is Tony Allen frustrated the hell out of him when he was guarding him. TA was the MVP of that game for Memphis, with Westbrook in an AuburnDawgesque tie for second with Randolph
Dow
Last night was the perfect example of a game where OKC missed Harden incredibly badly.
Down voted due to I call Tony Allen TA that's what I like to do however recd X 5 for the Aubs reference.
They got nothing in return for Harden so it was a bad move. Paid Ibaka way too much after betting he could be a 3rd option as Tequilla said. True, OKC is not a destination but you'd have to think with that big 3 they could attract some free agent help.
Tony Allen is amazing and clearly won game 2.
Even if Westbrook improved and was more efficient offensively OK lacks the supporting cast. It really is terrible compared to what Miami has, SA, Dallas, etc. Great point RoadDawg.
We saw that again this game where Memphis could just focus its D on Durant and Westbrook.
Even when Chicago had MJ and Pippen they also had Kukoc, Rodman and guys like Harper and Longley that were not liabilities at either end. During their first run they had Paxson plus Grant and Armstrong who became All-Stars the year after MJ left.
Can Jeremy Lamb get some fucking pt? Caron Butler and Derek Fisher are garbage and OKC needs all the offense they can get. Jackson has been shitty too.
I do think the media and those in the basketball community crowned Presti as a genius too quickly. He aced the lottery three years in a row plus nabbed Ibaka late. However that shows he is a good scout not an NBA GM.
Trading Harden, going with Brooks this long and the inability to put up a competent NBA roster 4-12 has to fall on him.
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Brooks isn't the greatest of coaches - but at the same time, he's also playing the hand that Presti dealt him ... and the hand that is dealt to him is tied to the fact that they have cheap ass owners that aren't willing to pay the luxury tax in pursuit of a title.
Put it this way, the Heat have a pretty bad roster after the Big 3. I will take guys 4-10 on the Heat over the Thunder. That's how bad their roster is.
I'm well aware of the concept of the best teams of all time having 3 great players as it's core. But you are missing a very key point in your "recipe for success"
Durant-Westbrook-Harden = 3 perimeter based players
Bird-McHale-Parish = entire front court - controlled the paint and glass
Magic-Kareem-Worthy = PG controlling pace, arguably the best center of all time (w/ Russell), and one of the most underrated forwards in the history of the game that could score on anybody but thrive without having the ball in his hands (all 3 were 6'9" and above)
Duncan-Parker-Ginobili = PG controlling pace, slashing wing that could create a shot at any time and arguably the best PF to ever play the game controlling the paint
LBJ-Wade-Bosh = Possibly the closest of comparisons to Durant-Westbrook-Harden and not even close really in that; LBJ is a dominating player in the paint on both ends; Wade is a slashing wing that is most comfortable going to the hoop and in today's game what he does is comparable to what good post players were able to do in getting to the line; Bosh is a career 19-9 guy playing PF.
Even your bringing up of MJ and Pippen is an issue because even though both were wings, both lived in the paint and on top of that were arguably the most dominant defensive players at their positions in the game - something none of the OKC guys are ever accused of.
OKC bet on Ibaka being the 3rd best player in their group and adding an interior guy to their dominance and he's not that guy.
The best way for OKC to win is to surround KD and Westbrook with a bunch of guys that can hit open jump shots and expose rotation defenses - think about having 1-2 Chandler Parsons types of players on your roster. Ultimately, that's what they should be looking for.
Westbrook also slides into 2 guard which is what he's naturally built for. Getting rid of Harden cost them a title this year and possibly even last year.
They also got NOTHING for Harden. Not one guy from that trade has contributed for them this year and barely last year(Martin sucked in the playoffs).
You forget Harden and Westbrook despite being volume shooters still rack up Assists. They also rack up FT attempts along with Durant meaning every opponent they play would be in foul trouble.
This won't hurt them against a team like the Grizz, they should still take this series rather easily in 6. Memphis played out of their minds last night to get that win while the Thunder looked like they were on cruise control but just couldn't hit that 1 shot to break the game open, that is going to happen.
However, against a team like the Heat that is going to completely bite them in the ass. This is where a good coach comes in and reminds Russell he didn't win the MVP so he needs to find Durant more at the end of games especially when he is on fire.
You never trade away All Star's, unless you are getting an All Star in return. They didn't need to trade away Harden and would have been better off keeping him for another season. Tequilla's premise is fine that having a couple of Chandler Parsens would be a better fit, but this isn't fantasy basketball. First of all, Chandler Parsons will probably be making 10 million after this year. One max level James Harden is about the same price as two mid level exception guys. Not to mention the Thunder are cheap and aren't a destination for most NBA players because it is Oklahoma.
Last night was the perfect example of a game where OKC missed Harden incredibly badly.
But what happened last night wasn't because of Tony Allen ... let's be real about that.
What I was referencing was the 28 shots each for KD and Westbrook ... last night wasn't the first time it has happened. It won't be the last time either. And it wasn't 28 shots each because of Tony Allen's presence on the court. Westbrook does this stuff all the time regardless.
It's either Durant or Westbrook.
It's not like Durant only getting 28 shots is some travesty. 28 is plenty of shots. The problem is without Harden they don't have anyone to take Westbrook's shots down to the 15-18 range where they belong.
But yes, I do believe Allen had something to do with why Durant was at 28 and not at 34.
When Harden was on the roster, the offense consisted of the 3 of them being on the court, figuring out who had the mismatch, and more or less playing isolation ball with the best matchup on the court. That's NOT going to win you a title.
The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that they won't win a title with a KD and Westbrook combo and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them leaves OKC when their current contract expires. We'll see how good of a NBA market that is AFTER they go into the crapper and don't have a generational talent to watch each and every night.
They got nothing in return for Harden so it was a bad move. Paid Ibaka way too much after betting he could be a 3rd option as Tequilla said. True, OKC is not a destination but you'd have to think with that big 3 they could attract some free agent help.
Tony Allen is amazing and clearly won game 2.
Even if Westbrook improved and was more efficient offensively OK lacks the supporting cast. It really is terrible compared to what Miami has, SA, Dallas, etc. Great point RoadDawg.
We saw that again this game where Memphis could just focus its D on Durant and Westbrook.
Even when Chicago had MJ and Pippen they also had Kukoc, Rodman and guys like Harper and Longley that were not liabilities at either end. During their first run they had Paxson plus Grant and Armstrong who became All-Stars the year after MJ left.
Trading Harden, going with Brooks this long and the inability to put up a competent NBA roster 4-12 has to fall on him.
I think Presti needs to take some heat as well.