As shitty Jon Wilner, love this stuff so I'll do each Pac-12 team.
Shocked people are saying LaMichael James. Always seemed like a pure college guy - really small and seemed like a lot of his success had to do with the hurry up and their system. Kenjon Barner always seemed just as good to me too.
Washington - Reggie Williams - Heard he didn't work hard enough to be an NFL impact guy. Washington State - Rien Long (pre-combine) - Once he showed up like 100 pounds overweight at the combine it was clearly over. Oregon - Jake Fisher Oregon State - DeLawrence Grant Cal - Jared Goff - thought he'd be better Stanford - Bryce Love - thought he was too small to be a star and let himself get too beat up in college but surprised I don't think he ever played an NFL game. UCLA - Dave Ball USC - Marqise Lee Arizona - Ka'Deem Carey Arizona State - Vontaze Burfict Utah - Star Lotulelei Colorado - Chris Brown
The subject of underwhelming football careers seems to be your wheelhouse
I don't agree with Reggie Bush. He didn't end up being "nothing" he won a super bowl, rushed for 5500 yards, and caught 3600. He obviously didn't dominate like he did at college but he was still a solid player.
Recency Bias probably Harry. Still think he can be decent but has been pretty irrelevant in New England.
Heroin was his downfall, cocaine was the gateway hard drug. Showed up at combine out of shape, and still scored in the top 2-8% in everything but the bench. But I’m not going to miss an opportunity for this:
Colt was recently paroled from prison, I think he’s wanted again - can’t fix some brains. He’s successful broken out of jail before, and eluded police. Imagine being a fatass cop trying to catch that guy. I never had to take an actual science class at UO, I took stats and CS classes for my meager degree reqs, but from what I understand this is actually the school’s lone remaining tenured chemistry professor. The others were arrested at a meth lab outside of Coburg.
He’s escaped jail twice. That’s harder to do than play in the NFL. Colt’s a success in my book.
I mean, it really is. I always used to think, fuck, whatever else you want to say about Ted Bundy, fucking impressive as fuck that he did it twice too. Takes balls and some fucking savy to pull it off. I couldn't do it.
I don't agree with Reggie Bush. He didn't end up being "nothing" he won a super bowl, rushed for 5500 yards, and caught 3600. He obviously didn't dominate like he did at college but he was still a solid player.
Recency Bias probably Harry. Still think he can be decent but has been pretty irrelevant in New England.
Stole this from Quora because I think it's a reasonable take on Bush, who I fucking loved as a player albeit at a program I really don't like. I think the 0 Pro Bowls is worthy of mention. You have a top 3 pick, from a name program with a pretty face who everyone likes ... if his play is even CLOSE to Pro Bowl worthy, his popularity and name get him over the hump.
He wasn't a bust, but he was a disappointment. Here's his career in a nutshell in terms of benchmarks that teams are looking for. He signed a six year rookie contract, and was traded after five years. For a top three pick, teams expect to draft somebody they'll want to keep.
He was a starter for six seasons (two with New Orleans). That's average-ish. Looking at players drafted 1st, 2nd, or 3rd from 1990 through 2014, there are 75 players, 37 of them were starters for 7 or more years. The team that drafts a player that high is expecting that the player will be a starter more years than not on his rookie contract.
He made no Pro Bowls, which isn't that unusual. The majority of top three picks (45 out of those 75) made at least one Pro Bowl.
Compared to the six other running backs drafted in that same 1-3 area over that time period, he was in the middle. Marshall Faulk is in the Hall of Fame. Garrison Hearst was a bit more productive than Bush, Ronnie Brown a little less productive, Blair Thomas and Trent Richardson were busts and Ki-Jana Carter's career was derailed by injuries.
Bush was always going to be a part-time player. He didn`t have the size or strength to be a feature back. Using a premium pick like a #2 for somebody who, even if healthy, isn't going to be on the field all the time just doesn't make a lot of sense. But, football is also a business, and boy oh boy, he sold tickets and he sold jerseys. From THAT point of view, he was a great pick.
At the risk of offending all Huskies everwhere, do we? include Dana Hall in there too? The stat of "he won a super bowl" is next to meaningless unless the player is the starting QB, and even then, Trent Dilfer. This is a rather harsh write up 49'er site:
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
At the risk of offending all Huskies everwhere, do we? include Dana Hall in there too? The stat of "he won a super bowl" is next to meaningless unless the player is the starting QB, and even then, Trent Dilfer. This is a rather harsh write up 49'er site:
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
I thought about listing Hall. He looked like an NFL corner to me but Frisco thought he should play safety. He hated it. He was doomed from the start.
I never saw combine or pro day testing or analysis on Hall and always wondered if his size at the time just didn't scream CB to NFL teams or if he didn't have the athletic traits of an NFL corner.
The 90-92 teams didn't do all that much at the NFL level for such a dominant, talented team. For some it really surprised me like Hall, Donald Jones and Tommie Smith. Some of the key offensive guys had obvious limitations: Lewis G didn't have great speed and had knee problems, Beno was too slight, Mario was too slight and not fast enough. Billy Joe liked POS cars. Those weren't really surprising. I thought all that talent on defense would lead to more good NFL careers though.
At the risk of offending all Huskies everwhere, do we? include Dana Hall in there too? The stat of "he won a super bowl" is next to meaningless unless the player is the starting QB, and even then, Trent Dilfer. This is a rather harsh write up 49'er site:
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
I thought about listing Hall. He looked like an NFL corner to me but Frisco thought he should play safety. He hated it. He was doomed from the start.
I never saw combine or pro day testing or analysis on Hall and always wondered if his size at the time just didn't scream CB to NFL teams or if he didn't have the athletic traits of an NFL corner.
The 90-92 teams didn't do all that much at the NFL level for such a dominant, talented team. For some it really surprised me like Hall, Donald Jones and Tommie Smith. Some of the key offensive guys had obvious limitations: Lewis G didn't have great speed and had knee problems, Beno was too slight, Mario was too slight and not fast enough. Billy Joe liked POS cars. Those weren't really surprising. I thought all that talent on defense would lead to more good NFL careers though.
Yep. I think the 84 and 97 teams had much more success in terms of NFL careers. Or at least more success. The 91 team had some great players and that team really loaded up on speed. Andy Mason was a sub-11 second guy who actually saw up close on a track in HS. And the linebackers were ferocious. But let's face it: Stand Entemans made everyone look just a little better.
D'Marco Farr had a decent career. Back up on 91 and a star with UW in 92
Mark Bruener won a ring with Pittsburgh
Farr, Ernie Conwell, and Benji Olsen all played in the Rams Titans Super Bowl
Yeah it's not that there was a shortage by any means. It actually adds up to quite a bit of NFL time when you think about it and some damn good careers. I guess it's more about the defense and specific guys I thought would be good pros, especially linebackers, but then I forgot about Jaimie Fields too.
At the risk of offending all Huskies everwhere, do we? include Dana Hall in there too? The stat of "he won a super bowl" is next to meaningless unless the player is the starting QB, and even then, Trent Dilfer. This is a rather harsh write up 49'er site:
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
I thought about listing Hall. He looked like an NFL corner to me but Frisco thought he should play safety. He hated it. He was doomed from the start.
I never saw combine or pro day testing or analysis on Hall and always wondered if his size at the time just didn't scream CB to NFL teams or if he didn't have the athletic traits of an NFL corner.
The 90-92 teams didn't do all that much at the NFL level for such a dominant, talented team. For some it really surprised me like Hall, Donald Jones and Tommie Smith. Some of the key offensive guys had obvious limitations: Lewis G didn't have great speed and had knee problems, Beno was too slight, Mario was too slight and not fast enough. Billy Joe liked POS cars. Those weren't really surprising. I thought all that talent on defense would lead to more good NFL careers though.
Yep. I think the 84 and 97 teams had much more success in terms of NFL careers. Or at least more success. The 91 team had some great players and that team really loaded up on speed. Andy Mason was a sub-11 second guy who actually saw up close on a track in HS. And the linebackers were ferocious. But let's face it: Stand Entemans made everyone look just a little better.
Looking back on it, there were a good amount of guys who were tweeners for the NFL. Dana Hall was meant more for a Cover 3 D and match-up zones since he was a bigger corner. Andy Mason would probably be a sub-package NFL pass-rusher in the NFL today.
Let's also not forget Lincoln Kennedy as a key piece to that team who had a 10 year NFL career including a few All-Pros and Pro Bowls.
At the risk of offending all Huskies everwhere, do we? include Dana Hall in there too? The stat of "he won a super bowl" is next to meaningless unless the player is the starting QB, and even then, Trent Dilfer. This is a rather harsh write up 49'er site:
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
I thought about listing Hall. He looked like an NFL corner to me but Frisco thought he should play safety. He hated it. He was doomed from the start.
I never saw combine or pro day testing or analysis on Hall and always wondered if his size at the time just didn't scream CB to NFL teams or if he didn't have the athletic traits of an NFL corner.
The 90-92 teams didn't do all that much at the NFL level for such a dominant, talented team. For some it really surprised me like Hall, Donald Jones and Tommie Smith. Some of the key offensive guys had obvious limitations: Lewis G didn't have great speed and had knee problems, Beno was too slight, Mario was too slight and not fast enough. Billy Joe liked POS cars. Those weren't really surprising. I thought all that talent on defense would lead to more good NFL careers though.
Yep. I think the 84 and 97 teams had much more success in terms of NFL careers. Or at least more success. The 91 team had some great players and that team really loaded up on speed. Andy Mason was a sub-11 second guy who actually saw up close on a track in HS. And the linebackers were ferocious. But let's face it: Stand Entemans made everyone look just a little better.
Looking back on it, there were a good amount of guys who were tweeners for the NFL. Dana Hall was meant more for a Cover 3 D and match-up zones since he was a bigger corner. Andy Mason would probably be a sub-package NFL pass-rusher in the NFL today.
Let's also not forget Lincoln Kennedy as a key piece to that team who had a 10 year NFL career including a few All-Pros and Pro Bowls.
Lincoln probably had the very best pro career from that team. You have to count Brunell too, since he would have been the starter but for an unfortunate practice ... he was on the team. But there were a bunch of good/great college players who just didn't translate to the next level. Most great teams have more than a handful of those guys, so it doesn't really matter. And there are so many guys who were almost invisible in college who blow up at the next level. Miami has produced a lot of them.
Comments
Recency Bias probably Harry. Still think he can be decent but has been pretty irrelevant in New England.
He wasn't a bust, but he was a disappointment. Here's his career in a nutshell in terms of benchmarks that teams are looking for. He signed a six year rookie contract, and was traded after five years. For a top three pick, teams expect to draft somebody they'll want to keep.
He was a starter for six seasons (two with New Orleans). That's average-ish. Looking at players drafted 1st, 2nd, or 3rd from 1990 through 2014, there are 75 players, 37 of them were starters for 7 or more years. The team that drafts a player that high is expecting that the player will be a starter more years than not on his rookie contract.
He made no Pro Bowls, which isn't that unusual. The majority of top three picks (45 out of those 75) made at least one Pro Bowl.
Compared to the six other running backs drafted in that same 1-3 area over that time period, he was in the middle. Marshall Faulk is in the Hall of Fame. Garrison Hearst was a bit more productive than Bush, Ronnie Brown a little less productive, Blair Thomas and Trent Richardson were busts and Ki-Jana Carter's career was derailed by injuries.
Bush was always going to be a part-time player. He didn`t have the size or strength to be a feature back. Using a premium pick like a #2 for somebody who, even if healthy, isn't going to be on the field all the time just doesn't make a lot of sense. But, football is also a business, and boy oh boy, he sold tickets and he sold jerseys. From THAT point of view, he was a great pick.
Hall was drafted 18th overall from the University of Washington. The 49ers drafted him to be the heir apparent to Ronnie Lott (who had left the 49er in 1990). Sadly Hall fell on his face big time. He would spend all of three seasons with the 49ers, recording just one sack and four interceptions. We cut him after the 1994 season (so he at least got a Super Bowl ring). Hall would then have the misfortune of landing with a Browns team that was leaving Cleveland for Baltimore. When the Browns dissolved Hall would be picked up by the expansion Jaguars for the final two years of his career.
His rookie contract was for three years, $2.7 million, but by the end of his time with the 49ers he was relegated to special teams only.
There's a very good silver lining from this pick though. Hall would be injured early in the 1993 season, forcing a switch up in defense. Merton Hanks would be moved from CB to safety and would excel with three interceptions (one for a TD) in 1993 and seven interceptions in 1994. Without the pick of Hall and his subsequent injury we may never have known what Hanks was capable of.
I never saw combine or pro day testing or analysis on Hall and always wondered if his size at the time just didn't scream CB to NFL teams or if he didn't have the athletic traits of an NFL corner.
The 90-92 teams didn't do all that much at the NFL level for such a dominant, talented team. For some it really surprised me like Hall, Donald Jones and Tommie Smith. Some of the key offensive guys had obvious limitations: Lewis G didn't have great speed and had knee problems, Beno was too slight, Mario was too slight and not fast enough. Billy Joe liked POS cars.
Those weren't really surprising. I thought all that talent on defense would lead to more good NFL careers though.
Mark Bruener won a ring with Pittsburgh
Farr, Ernie Conwell, and Benji Olsen all played in the Rams Titans Super Bowl
Billy Joe "They have a play book? Hobert
Let's also not forget Lincoln Kennedy as a key piece to that team who had a 10 year NFL career including a few All-Pros and Pro Bowls.