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Region's largest homebuilder lands a whopper: 32 acres in Woodinville
DerekJohnson
Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 68,551 
Comments
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Anybody paying attention was wondering when that property would trade hands. That's the second coup DR Horton has pulled off in that location. About a mile from there they grabbed a 20ac nursery and got over 200 doors out of it (project since completed).
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Multi-family? How do you squeeze 10 SFH's per acre?pawz said:Anybody paying attention was wondering when that property would trade hands. That's the second coup DR Horton has pulled off in that location. About a mile from there they grabbed a 20ac nursery and got over 200 doors out of it (project since completed).
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No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days -
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually). -
These are conclusions one should not jump to...creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually). -
Well, true.1to392831weretaken said:
These are conclusions one should not jump to...creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually). -
creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs! -
Lot of truth hereRatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that -
This is so fucking spot on that even I, @creepycoug , have not one word to offer.RatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
Especially the oak. My in-laws love fucking oak. Old oak is ok, and it's fine on floors. But new, big grain "I'm OAK!!!! Look at me!!!" is as bad and dated as shag carpet and chrome. -
True, but even in tight developments the minimum lot size is still usually 3k sq ft or more. The math doesn't work even on that small of a lot if it's a 20 acre site.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days -
Horton does mix in multi family as well
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Is Horton still an entry-level builder? I ask because Quadrant used to be a lower-end "more square footage for the price" builder when there were a WY operation; and now they are building higher-end stuff.RaceBannon said:Horton does mix in multi family as well
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According to my wife Horton has entry level and higher endcreepycoug said:
Is Horton still an entry-level builder? I ask because Quadrant used to be a lower-end "more square footage for the price" builder when there were a WY operation; and now they are building higher-end stuff.RaceBannon said:Horton does mix in multi family as well
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I see Race gets me and my pain. You said many months ago that I should have tore down and rebuilt. Just two evenings ago, I thought back to that post and admitted to myself that you were right. Would have probably been financially impossible, but you were right.RaceBannon said:
Lot of truth hereRatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that
Tomorrow, the carpet in my bedroom is being installed. I tore that carpet out in August. Nearly ever day pain and suffering since is no exaggeration.
Which is where a word of caution for @RatherBeBrewing is necessary here: You described your options correctly, but not the total cost. In the past, renovating options two or three were the right move. Now? They're not an option. Those renovations will cost so much that you'll feel stupid for not just donating a black market kidney or two and upping your budget to over a million so you can have a better built custom home and also some space.
Even that isn't a guarantee that your house wasn't thrown together poorly. I'd want to contact the builder directly and ask some very specific questions: How is the house ventilated? What was used for water resistive barrier? How were the windows taped and flashed? OSB or CDX? Hot dipped nails or brights? Stainless nails for siding and treated sills? Proper wrapped foundation drain? Properly vented plumbing? Good luck finding such a place.
Perhaps the best bet would be to wait for the cost of lumber to reduce back to at least half of what it currently is (although I have my doubts this will happen) and just build something that won't fall apart. -
I think that saying applies to all occupations. Be it contractors, manufacturers, pimps, lawyers, international arms sales, or even Camas based IT help desk workers.RaceBannon said:
Lot of truth hereRatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that
A reporter for the Guardian or Telegraph or some other Brit newspaper told me a joke about a drunk and nouveau riche Ukrainian getting into a cab in London and insisting he be driven to his country home outside of Kiev. The taxi driver doesn’t understand and explains he isn’t allowed to leave London. The oligarch keeps repeating himself and takes out a giant wad of cash. The cabbie starts speaking perfect Russian asking him which bridge would be the best to take this time of day.
You’re right, in that it’s usually a waste to try to improve most shitty homes. There are houses I’ve seen where >$5k of materials and me not being lazy on weekends could make something worth $50k more in just ~three months. My goal is more of a long term thing, get something we’d be in for for five years and make it what we want as we go along and then upgrade again. But I mostly agree, money pit potential is sky high. -
1to392831weretaken said:
I see Race gets me and my pain. You said many months ago that I should have tore down and rebuilt. Just two evenings ago, I thought back to that post and admitted to myself that you were right. Would have probably been financially impossible, but you were right.RaceBannon said:
Lot of truth hereRatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that
Tomorrow, the carpet in my bedroom is being installed. I tore that carpet out in August. Nearly ever day pain and suffering since is no exaggeration.
Which is where a word of caution for @RatherBeBrewing is necessary here: You described your options correctly, but not the total cost. In the past, renovating options two or three were the right move. Now? They're not an option. Those renovations will cost so much that you'll feel stupid for not just donating a black market kidney or two and upping your budget to over a million so you can have a better built custom home and also some space.
Even that isn't a guarantee that your house wasn't thrown together poorly. I'd want to contact the builder directly and ask some very specific questions: How is the house ventilated? What was used for water resistive barrier? How were the windows taped and flashed? OSB or CDX? Hot dipped nails or brights? Stainless nails for siding and treated sills? Proper wrapped foundation drain? Properly vented plumbing? Good luck finding such a place.
Perhaps the best bet would be to wait for the cost of lumber to reduce back to at least half of what it currently is (although I have my doubts this will happen) and just build something that won't fall apart.
Water is wet, again.
Just ask @MikeSeaver
-
As the flippers say on TV the money is made on the buy price. If your doing it for yourself and want to stay for several years go for it. Spend the money and have it done right unless you can do it yourself
My original point was the lack of stock makes the buy price higher than optimal even for a shitty home -
One of my Dads is flipping in Miami to keep himself busy. I keep telling him to be careful and get in and out quickly because you don't know when the market is going to collapse.RaceBannon said:As the flippers say on TV the money is made on the buy price. If your doing it for yourself and want to stay for several years go for it. Spend the money and have it done right unless you can do it yourself
My original point was the lack of stock makes the buy price higher than optimal even for a shitty home
Anyway, they have a source in the city of Miami government that allows them to get to the front of the line with permits, etc. and they buy distressed shit. So, as Race said, it's all on the purchase price. Then they do some things (sometimes as easy as just cleaning it up outside, replacing a few things inside, and flippiddy flip flop he and his cousin will walk away with $40 to say $80 k.
To drive the point home even further, they bought this 1930s art deco number in one of the old classic Miami neighborhoods (Miami had a huge art deco era - it works down there) with a detached garage and all this shit. An eccentric guy lived there and had stacks of newspapers all over ... that kind of shit.
This is classic beauty of an old house and they wanted to "do it justice", which was their first mistake. So they get this thing, they pay a fair amount for it and they really do it up and, guess what? They had to hold it for several months longer than typical and eventually whatever they sold it for didn't give them the margin that anybody here would have considered worth the while, even ignoring their time and labor. Just straight hold time and related market risk alone didn't justify the peanuts they made.
They've done very well with mid-market flips where they are getting the thing in the first instance with built-in margin, and then they make it more sellable and boom ... like I said, $40 to $80 k, sometimes a little more, for a couple of months work if that and less downside risk. -
The comps always magically go up on TV. Flip shows were why folks got caught with 8 mortgages in the last crashcreepycoug said:
One of my Dads is flipping in Miami to keep himself busy. I keep telling him to be careful and get in and out quickly because you don't know when the market is going to collapse.RaceBannon said:As the flippers say on TV the money is made on the buy price. If your doing it for yourself and want to stay for several years go for it. Spend the money and have it done right unless you can do it yourself
My original point was the lack of stock makes the buy price higher than optimal even for a shitty home
Anyway, they have a source in the city of Miami government that allows them to get to the front of the line with permits, etc. and they buy distressed shit. So, as Race said, it's all on the purchase price. Then they do some things (sometimes as easy as just cleaning it up outside, replacing a few things inside, and flippiddy flip flop he and his cousin will walk away with $40 to say $80 k.
To drive the point home even further, they bought this 1930s art deco number in one of the old classic Miami neighborhoods (Miami had a huge art deco era - it works down there) with a detached garage and all this shit. An eccentric guy lived there and had stacks of newspapers all over ... that kind of shit.
This is classic beauty of an old house and they wanted to "do it justice", which was their first mistake. So they get this thing, they pay a fair amount for it and they really do it up and, guess what? They had to hold it for several months longer than typical and eventually whatever they sold it for didn't give them the margin that anybody here would have considered worth the while, even ignoring their time and labor. Just straight hold time and related market risk alone didn't justify the peanuts they made.
They've done very well with mid-market flips where they are getting the thing in the first instance with built-in margin, and then they make it more sellable and boom ... like I said, $40 to $80 k, sometimes a little more, for a couple of months work if that and less downside risk.
You need to be able to hold and even have rentals if you screw up the math
Like anything its a lot harder than it looks
I'd like to work with your dad though. Dream retirement job -
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I saw the Trademark show in 05 and immediately wanted to sell the Seattle home and start flipping. It was the coolest thing ever
I tell my wife we could go to some out of the way place like Aberdeen (true story) and buy in low, and start stacking modest profits until we move on to bigger markets
I'm not moving to fucking Aberdeen
The dream died. But lives on -
True story: This guy* who co-hosts one of the biggest real estate investing podcasts, the BiggerPockets Podcast, got started flipping in Aberdeen, WA. When he got to 100 rental doors, he moved to Maui. Now he put together an investment group that buys 100s/1000s of doors of mobile home parks. Did I mention he does it from Maui?RaceBannon said:I saw the Trademark show in 05 and immediately wanted to sell the Seattle home and start flipping. It was the coolest thing ever
I tell my wife we could go to some out of the way place like Aberdeen (true story) and buy in low, and start stacking modest profits until we move on to bigger markets
I'm not moving to fucking Aberdeen
The dream died. But lives on
Anyhow, moving into the flipping space is also my dream. Flipping multi-family is where the leverage is at. It's going to fucking happen come hell or high water.
*This guy, Brandon Turner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naZAknwNgkY
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Pardon-fucking-me. 165 doors.BleachedAnusDawg said:
True, but even in tight developments the minimum lot size is still usually 3k sq ft or more. The math doesn't work even on that small of a lot if it's a 20 acre site.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
Like we say: Ballpark.
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That have both. Same with Quadrant (aka Weyerhaeuser).RaceBannon said:
According to my wife Horton has entry level and higher endcreepycoug said:
Is Horton still an entry-level builder? I ask because Quadrant used to be a lower-end "more square footage for the price" builder when there were a WY operation; and now they are building higher-end stuff.RaceBannon said:Horton does mix in multi family as well
Both are National builders. -
The Compound's main house has so much fucking oak and wallpaper, it's like time traveling back to 1983.creepycoug said:
This is so fucking spot on that even I, @creepycoug , have not one word to offer.RatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
Especially the oak. My in-laws love fucking oak. Old oak is ok, and it's fine on floors. But new, big grain "I'm OAK!!!! Look at me!!!" is as bad and dated as shag carpet and chrome.
Until you have turquoise carpets and a pink bathroom, you really haven't scored a fixer in your real estate travels. Gold/brass bathroom fixtures make the retro shithole motif pop.
Toss a couple hundie into this bitch and ka-ching that motherfucker to the promised land somewhere outside of InsleeTaxLand.
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It sounds like you need a new carpet guy.1to392831weretaken said:
I see Race gets me and my pain. You said many months ago that I should have tore down and rebuilt. Just two evenings ago, I thought back to that post and admitted to myself that you were right. Would have probably been financially impossible, but you were right.RaceBannon said:
Lot of truth hereRatherBeBrewing said:creepycoug said:
Bingo.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
I may be headed back to that area myself and looking for a little space. There are a lot of older places on nice lots. You can always fix up the house; you can't expand your lot (usually).
I’ve had to explain this concept to my significant other repeatedly. I’m not entirely against a subdivision but the newest ones are an exercise in how close and cheaply you can build houses and get away with it. She is starting to grasp that it may be better to get something non cookie cutter with a bit of space, and put some sweat equity into it.
We are in the market for an upgrade. Our current house is in the range of ones that shot up 20% in a quarter and are going like hot cakes the day they’re listed; the ones that are a step or two higher haven’t increased as much yet so I’m trying to strike while it makes sense.
It seems there are only three options:
1. Nice, newer houses with the accoutrements one expects: open floor plans, big kitchen, impressive master, walk-ins, bathrooms that don’t remind me of airplanes, etc.
Unless you hit the seven figure price point those will be built on a 7,000 SF lot and you can have a conversation with half of the neighborhood from your postage sized backyard.
2. A custom built from 1970-2000 something before the McMansion subdivision made that rare. It will be on primo land, instead of flat farm land that has been turned into a generic grid or something next to a busy four lane road.
The downside is that it will often be some crazy shit, most likely dated beyond hope and the architect who designed and drafted it with his own three hands was institutionalized for hearing voices.
Enjoy this three bedroom, eight bathroom, with staircases inspired by MC Escher! Features wine cellar that can be converted to a sex dungeon (or vice versa), three bars, dedicated RV parking for a 98 foot RV or a dirigible, dining room built in a Japanese style, the adjoining living room with a Southwestern flair and a fireplace made out of the bones of a now extinct wild horse! We suggest you learn to use the fireplace because this house uses more electricity than a small African nation. No windows on the north side of the house but there are impossible to replace skylights throughout. New owner assumes all responsibility, including possible haunting by malevolent spirits.
3. The “Grandma’s been put in the cheapest old folks home we could find and we’re splitting this jackpot seven ways” special.
House will look even worse because it’s filled with 1970s furniture, curtains, peeling linoleum, flowery wallpapers, the worst and shaggiest carpet you can imagine, toilets and baths will be pink. When this house was built it wasn’t allowed to have more than one small window per room, they will all be too high or too low to create the perfect atmosphere of mid century gloom. The kitchen is wide enough for one petite person to be in at a time.
I hope you really like oak or something that looks like oak! Because everything in this house looks like fucking oak. The window trim and sills, every door, every cabinet, maybe a wall or two. Everything is oak! Except for the floors, which are carcinogenic plastics.
The yard is the perfect size and will look great if it’s not neglected for another 30 years. When your neighbors are doing some domestic violence shit or yelling at their new puppy you won’t know because your $850k house isn’t three feet from theirs!
The problem is the shitty homes are overpriced limiting how much to light on fire remodeling it and still getting a return. If that matters which it usually does
You could take any house to the studs that is on a nice lot and build it back better (SWIDT). If you hire a good GC you can get it done fast. But its 100 grand easy. Or you could call @1to392831weretaken and spread it out over years of pain and suffering
As a contractor I always say there is nothing we can't do with your money
I like to say that
Tomorrow, the carpet in my bedroom is being installed. I tore that carpet out in August. Nearly ever day pain and suffering since is no exaggeration.
Which is where a word of caution for @RatherBeBrewing is necessary here: You described your options correctly, but not the total cost. In the past, renovating options two or three were the right move. Now? They're not an option. Those renovations will cost so much that you'll feel stupid for not just donating a black market kidney or two and upping your budget to over a million so you can have a better built custom home and also some space.
Even that isn't a guarantee that your house wasn't thrown together poorly. I'd want to contact the builder directly and ask some very specific questions: How is the house ventilated? What was used for water resistive barrier? How were the windows taped and flashed? OSB or CDX? Hot dipped nails or brights? Stainless nails for siding and treated sills? Proper wrapped foundation drain? Properly vented plumbing? Good luck finding such a place.
Perhaps the best bet would be to wait for the cost of lumber to reduce back to at least half of what it currently is (although I have my doubts this will happen) and just build something that won't fall apart.
Your words of caution are noted and appreciated. As a rule of thumb I assume that everything anyone ever does is poorly thrown together, and double so for anything involving construction. I’m no virgin to the clusterfucks that are renovations and wishing great harm to a general contractor and anyone they’ve ever cared about.
My parents have a custom 7,000 sq ft monstrosity that is the fever dream of a 16th century Tuscan nobleman and a 1980s narco-baron. It had a big general remodel 20 years prior, and is now going through piecemeal renovations that I’ve been overseeing. $100k+ of windows and decking, owner of the company dies from a heart attack, foreman/ops has a stroke and becomes a turnip. Work paid for not completed, shoddy work, go after bond, fun shit.
I get what you’re saying, and I do have a spare kidney. Since I stopped drinking selling one for a house with an extra 1/4 of an acre would be motivation to keep teetotaling. I should have been investing my weed dub bag profits into internet coins instead of BBQ and more weed.
I’m not looking for anything requiring a massive overhaul or something to remodel. More like picking an imperfect house and making it better. This would be for us to enjoy our new habitat, the added value is a bonus.
We want a house for at least the next five years, I’d prefer buying as is perfect but I’m okay with getting something older or in need of a bit of work I can spread out. I should note that while I am a supremely lazy millennial yuppie or whatever the modern equivalent is, I can also do 95% of the work myself. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, flooring, HVAC, landscaping are all in my wheelhouse. The only things I don’t touch are masonry, tile laying, and roofing.
Building your own house from scratch. I’m curious to see what other people would want in theirs. Speak up, show pictures, let us mock your dream house.. Size? Style? Special features? Setting (by water, hill, underground bunker, etc)? How much territory?
I even thought about posting here to see if any of you have gone the custom route recently, or ever.
I’ve done a ton of the background, as I thought it would be more feasible than it wound up being. I looked at land, talked to two builders, and others in the industry. Custom would most likely be the next time around as my budget grows. Even with good deals I could get on lumber or steel through my family’s related business the cost is still prohibitive and winds up being more than equally desirable houses that are already built.
1.33 acre, designs, building permits, grading, septic, well, excavation, and concrete pour puts it at half a mil before we even get anything other than permission to use our own land, some water, and a very large underground poop bucket. It’s A LOT cheaper to build in other parts of the country. The park levy is 1/6 the total permit costs, and it alone is more than all the permits combined in most places. Labor costs, competition for specialists, weather considerations, etc. -
DHI up 2.7% today. Looks nice. Might buy on a dip.
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Whereabouts in the country?RatherBeBrewing said:It sounds like you need a new carpet guy.
Your words of caution are noted and appreciated. As a rule of thumb I assume that everything anyone ever does is poorly thrown together, and double so for anything involving construction. I’m no virgin to the clusterfucks that are renovations and wishing great harm to a general contractor and anyone they’ve ever cared about.
My parents have a custom 7,000 sq ft monstrosity that is the fever dream of a 16th century Tuscan nobleman and a 1980s narco-baron. It had a big general remodel 20 years prior, and is now going through piecemeal renovations that I’ve been overseeing. $100k+ of windows and decking, owner of the company dies from a heart attack, foreman/ops has a stroke and becomes a turnip. Work paid for not completed, shoddy work, go after bond, fun shit.
I get what you’re saying, and I do have a spare kidney. Since I stopped drinking selling one for a house with an extra 1/4 of an acre would be motivation to keep teetotaling. I should have been investing my weed dub bag profits into internet coins instead of BBQ and more weed.
I’m not looking for anything requiring a massive overhaul or something to remodel. More like picking an imperfect house and making it better. This would be for us to enjoy our new habitat, the added value is a bonus.
We want a house for at least the next five years, I’d prefer buying as is perfect but I’m okay with getting something older or in need of a bit of work I can spread out. I should note that while I am a supremely lazy millennial yuppie or whatever the modern equivalent is, I can also do 95% of the work myself. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, flooring, HVAC, landscaping are all in my wheelhouse. The only things I don’t touch are masonry, tile laying, and roofing.
Building your own house from scratch. I’m curious to see what other people would want in theirs. Speak up, show pictures, let us mock your dream house.. Size? Style? Special features? Setting (by water, hill, underground bunker, etc)? How much territory?
I even thought about posting here to see if any of you have gone the custom route recently, or ever.
I’ve done a ton of the background, as I thought it would be more feasible than it wound up being. I looked at land, talked to two builders, and others in the industry. Custom would most likely be the next time around as my budget grows. Even with good deals I could get on lumber or steel through my family’s related business the cost is still prohibitive and winds up being more than equally desirable houses that are already built.
1.33 acre, designs, building permits, grading, septic, well, excavation, and concrete pour puts it at half a mil before we even get anything other than permission to use our own land, some water, and a very large underground poop bucket. It’s A LOT cheaper to build in other parts of the country. The park levy is 1/6 the total permit costs, and it alone is more than all the permits combined in most places. Labor costs, competition for specialists, weather considerations, etc.
If you can do a lot of work yourself, then it's a lot more feasible to go the fix-up route. Fucking sucks, though, particularly when you already have a full-time-plus job. My carpet's taken over seven months because peeling the old stuff out led down the path of reframing a fourth of the house and all that entails. And there's still tiling a bathroom to go.
My word of caution was strictly based off the cost of materials and what subs are billing at the moment. If you have an inside line on relatively affordable materials, that's definitely another data point.
To answer your query, if I were to build custom, it wouldn't be anything special--I don't like having a massive house to clean/take care of/repair when needed, so ~2200 sq.ft. for my family of four would be plenty. But it would be built properly from the ground up, with durability and energy efficiency (as long as it pays for itself) in mind. My vision would be a daylight basement formed with ICFs and with a single zone radiant loop in the slab, jatoba hardwood floor throughout except tile in the bathroom and kitchen. Two bedrooms, bathroom, laundry downstairs, the rest unfinished for utilities. Tall I-joists between floors for ease of running utilities. Kitchen, living room, entry, public bathroom, and master suite upstairs. Covered porch. Craftsman style windows. Hardi lap siding with tight reveal, stainless siding nails, 30# felt WRB, rain screen wall, fly ash trim boards (indestructible but expensive). Proper window/door taping and flashing is CRITICAL. 2x6 or staggered 2x4 wall construction (or I'd love to try the new insulated truss-style studs) with CDX wall sheathing and Rockwool insulation. I could be talked into SIP roof panels to remove the need for ventilation and make the attic space more useful. For upstairs heat/air, Fujitsu mini splits in the master and living room (more efficient heating than Hitachi, which are more efficient for cooling). Ventilation via ERV installed in the attic, with supplies and returns in every room.
I've never had the opportunity to design my own house, but I did go through the process when I built my 1100 square foot shop (limited in size by stormwater requirements and my beard's mandate that it not be bigger than the house...). Craftsman house with shop 20 feet away, so had to match. Everything above that's not house-only went into it: Radiant heat in the slab, 2x6 walls in a rainscreen design and with R23 Rockwool insulation, craftsman style. My shop is so much nicer than my house that all I can do is shake my head and laugh.
I asked where you are because you mentioned high cost of permitting. They make you jump through a ton of hoops where I'm at that ended up delaying construction over a year, but they weren't too terribly expensive. I think if I wanted to clear property and build a house from scratch (as opposed to replacing an existing structure), through, it would be more expensive due to stormwater management requirements. Still, would be something under $20K. It helps a lot that I did the plans drafting myself. After getting a bid for $10K, I said, "Fuck that!," pirated Chief Architect, and learned how to use it:
30# felt WRB, 1/2" treated furring strips for rainscreen wall, proper window taping and flashing:
I sheathed with OSB (walls, but roof was CDX), but I'd do CDX all over if I had to do it again. Savings wasn't worth it. I also ponied up for crazy expensive primed FJ cedar for trim. That's only because at the time I didn't know the even more expensive, even more indestructible fly ash board existed.
From when I was painting:
Bathroom/utility room framing (you cans see the PEX coming up from the slab):
DIY (cheaper/better) radiant loop:
I only include this picture of core-drilling the house foundation to route shop plumbing through because I'm wearing the beanie I got for having the "pleasure" of attending the 2016 USC loss:
This picture is to show you what Rockwool insulation looks like installed (I fucking loooooooove this stuff), but it also proudly displays where I fell through the ceiling and dangled by my armpits to save a 12' fall to concrete:
Interior window treatment:
Anyway, take that building, give it a kitchen and put a covered porch on the back and nicer doors, and that's what I want for my house. The plan for the next major project is to do exactly this, ripping off all the house siding, shiplap sheathing, and windows, fixing framing and rot issues, rebuilding new, and siding with a rainscreen wall and matching trim to the shop. Was going to get started this July, but not only am I burnt out, but I'd like to give lumber prices a chance to drop back down below ridiculous if they're going to. So probably next year. Not like the house is going to get any shittier than it already is in the meantime... -
Last thing, as I'm pretty sure I've already killed this thread deader than 2019 Husky football killed my heart: I believe you're in Oregon, and rainscreen is now code there, so might as well get familiar with it. Nothing wrong with how I did the shop, but when I have a go at the house, I'm going to change things up a bit with new products I was not aware of.
The theory behind the rainscreen wall is that water WILL get in eventually, so you might as well aid in it drying back out before it rots. You do this by creating a convection channel between the WRB and the siding. The siding is there strictly to repel driven rain, the channel of moving air keeps the water off the actual wall and dries any that gets by. Looks like this:
This detail can be (and must be in Oregon new construction) used under lap siding, panel siding, even masonry (brick/stucco). It only takes a sixteenth of an inch separation from the wall to work, but everything's going to 10 mm now. In the past (my build), 1/2" pressure treated plywood strips were used. At the top and bottom of the wall, you need some kind of screen to keep the bugs out but the air moving. Many builders still just wrap mesh screens around the tops and bottoms of the furring strips, but there are also products on the market that are cool and save time. I used Cor-A-Vent:
It's basically plastic sign board with plastic mesh crammed into one edge to keep the bugs out. Where things get even more awesome now (slightly more expensive, but worth it) is in the furring strips themselves. Instead of ripped treated plywood, there are products that breathe in all directions:
The advantage to this stuff is that air can move both up the wall and across, so you don't have to have air outlets below every window and air inlets above every window and door: The entire wall is the "chimney," not individual stud cavities.
Beneath all this, allow me a minute to shit on Tyvek and similar housewraps: The goal of the WRB is to keep water out but allow water vapor through. No plastic housewrap is good at both. Good ol' felt paper does just fine at both. My understanding (maybe Race knows) is that Tyvek is all but going extinct in California. Just what I've read on building forums. Where I'm at, ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT of $800K+ McMansions--even custom--are going up with either Tyvek or even cheaper Tex paper, paper wrapped into window rough openings (not good), and then windows nailed on top and fins taped over (or not), basically creating a pathway for water that gets through the Tyvek to travel right into the house and rot out the window framing (because once water gets through Tyvek, it ain't comin' out...).
Old building methods accidentally did a few things right: Houses weren't even remotely tight, had felt for WRB, etc. So they dried both to the inside and outside, thus inhibiting rot and improving indoor air quality (to counter the horrible indoor air quality effects of wood burning and/or fuel oil stoves) at the expense of burning a LOT more fuel for heat. Worst thing you can do to an old house is make it efficient by tightening it up to duck's-ass levels. Prepare to repair a lot of rot in very short order. Ask me how I know...
New houses have to pass energy code, to the point of even passing a blower door test if the AHJ gets off his ass and does it (in Washington, we're one of only two states in which this is required even for accessory buildings if they're heated). Which is to say buildings have to be tight. It's amazing the impact this has on energy bills--ours dropped to a third instantly. It's also amazing the impact this has on indoor air quality and inability of walls that aren't designed for it to dry. To the latter, I already described rainscreen construction. To the former, a properly sized HRV or ERV (depending on climate) is a must. If building from scratch, it's even better to have a supply and return in every room to avoid pockets of stale air and mildew. A buddy of mine a few years ago bought a custom McMansion that would go for probably $850K today. I was actually impressed with the quality of everything I could see (obviously can't look under the siding). He said he had to call out an HVAC contractor because he didn't think the ERV was working (I was impressed it even had one), as they were getting mold in his daughter's room. The guy came out, gave him a wink, and showed him the solution: Cracked open the bedroom window. In December. Modern houses are tight!
Lastly, my experience is that all of the goofy code requirements for insulation (slab perimeter, under slab if heating with in-floor radiant, insulated headers, high ceiling and walls R-values) pay for themselves. Pointless to fight it, just spend a little now to save a LOT over time. Again: You must mitigate this with fresh air movement using an HRV/ERV. -
We’re loving our .13 acre 2400 sq ft lifestyle. But that’s only cause our neighbors are great. I’d hate comparable density in Woodinville or most places.RaceBannon said:No yard and 2 feet from your side neighbors
All the rage with the cost of development these days
