Between the Front & Back: Grundle’s Book Club
Comments
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Yeah, I found the last section of the book the weakest like when he talks about the development of electric vehicles and self-driving cars. Neither of those technologies are “ready for prime time” but that is the direction everything is heading. I think he’s right to be skeptical in how fast it will mature though.HoustonHusky said:Should say I’ve always found Yergin exceptional in his historical summation/characterization on things that have happened...can’t always say the same about when he applies it going forward (true of most everyone...I guess I criticize him more because he says it with such authority and it’s given such weight because of who he is). That was always my biggest issue with Commanding Heights.
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My blood also boiled when he went over some of the stuff in Saudi Arabia. I’m glad that in their strives to diversify their economy past oil with the Saudi Vision 2030 it’s forced their hand to start to make some long overdue changes to their society, especially for women, but it’s still a shit show.GrundleStiltzkin said:3. Iran
Seriously, fuck those guys. I've read a ton of books in the last several years that have some touch point in the Middle East, mostly from a "war on terror" perspective. Iran comes up a lot in those, natch. However, this book for me really crystalized that amount of malarkey the Iranian government drops across the region. Directly or through proxies, Iran seems to responsible for at least 81% of the troubles in the region. Weº know they hate usº, this is understood, but let's not loose sight of how much Iran seems to hate every other ME government.
Aside 1: Who knew that Houthi isn't an ethnic minority group, but an Islamist rebel group named after their former leader who was vaporized by the Saudis? I did not. Just from snips and headlines covering SA's actions against them, I had the impression that Houthis vs. Saudis was something akin to Shiite vs. Sunni. Nope, Iranian backed guerrillas.
Aside 2: What a clusterfuck de-Baathification was in Iraq. Terrible decision.
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I knew nothing at all about Yergin until I read his book The Quest, which I also enjoyed.HoustonHusky said:Should say I’ve always found Yergin exceptional in his historical summation/characterization on things that have happened...can’t always say the same about when he applies it going forward (true of most everyone...I guess I criticize him more because he says it with such authority and it’s given such weight because of who he is). That was always my biggest issue with Commanding Heights.
Good poont. IDoog_de_Jour said:
Yeah, I found the last section of the book the weakest like when he talks about the development of electric vehicles and self-driving cars. Neither of those technologies are “ready for prime time” but that is the direction everything is heading. I think he’s right to be skeptical in how fast it will mature though.HoustonHusky said:Should say I’ve always found Yergin exceptional in his historical summation/characterization on things that have happened...can’t always say the same about when he applies it going forward (true of most everyone...I guess I criticize him more because he says it with such authority and it’s given such weight because of who he is). That was always my biggest issue with Commanding Heights.
readlistened to the first 3/4 of the book twice, but the future stuff just the once so that wasn't as fresh. Agree that was weaker than the retrospective analysis, probably by necessity. -
In a couple of the ME books I've read, there's greater detail about the Grand Mosque siege in 1978(?). Crazy shit.Doog_de_Jour said:
My blood also boiled when he went over some of the stuff in Saudi Arabia. I’m glad that in their strives to diversify their economy past oil with the Saudi Vision 2030 it’s forced their hand to start to make some long overdue changes to their society, especially for women, but it’s still a shit show.GrundleStiltzkin said:3. Iran
Seriously, fuck those guys. I've read a ton of books in the last several years that have some touch point in the Middle East, mostly from a "war on terror" perspective. Iran comes up a lot in those, natch. However, this book for me really crystalized that amount of malarkey the Iranian government drops across the region. Directly or through proxies, Iran seems to responsible for at least 81% of the troubles in the region. Weº know they hate usº, this is understood, but let's not loose sight of how much Iran seems to hate every other ME government.
Aside 1: Who knew that Houthi isn't an ethnic minority group, but an Islamist rebel group named after their former leader who was vaporized by the Saudis? I did not. Just from snips and headlines covering SA's actions against them, I had the impression that Houthis vs. Saudis was something akin to Shiite vs. Sunni. Nope, Iranian backed guerrillas.
Aside 2: What a clusterfuck de-Baathification was in Iraq. Terrible decision. -
The survey of the ME history class I took at UW was great. I don’t remember about the Grand Mosque Siege. I’ll need to re-read up on it.GrundleStiltzkin said:
In a couple of the ME books I've read, there's greater detail about the Grand Mosque siege in 1978(?). Crazy shit.Doog_de_Jour said:
My blood also boiled when he went over some of the stuff in Saudi Arabia. I’m glad that in their strives to diversify their economy past oil with the Saudi Vision 2030 it’s forced their hand to start to make some long overdue changes to their society, especially for women, but it’s still a shit show.GrundleStiltzkin said:3. Iran
Seriously, fuck those guys. I've read a ton of books in the last several years that have some touch point in the Middle East, mostly from a "war on terror" perspective. Iran comes up a lot in those, natch. However, this book for me really crystalized that amount of malarkey the Iranian government drops across the region. Directly or through proxies, Iran seems to responsible for at least 81% of the troubles in the region. Weº know they hate usº, this is understood, but let's not loose sight of how much Iran seems to hate every other ME government.
Aside 1: Who knew that Houthi isn't an ethnic minority group, but an Islamist rebel group named after their former leader who was vaporized by the Saudis? I did not. Just from snips and headlines covering SA's actions against them, I had the impression that Houthis vs. Saudis was something akin to Shiite vs. Sunni. Nope, Iranian backed guerrillas.
Aside 2: What a clusterfuck de-Baathification was in Iraq. Terrible decision.
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Commandos, tear gas, flood tunnels, something for everyone.Doog_de_Jour said:
The survey of the ME history class I took at UW was great. I don’t remember about the Grand Mosque Siege. I’ll need to re-read up on it.GrundleStiltzkin said:
In a couple of the ME books I've read, there's greater detail about the Grand Mosque siege in 1978(?). Crazy shit.Doog_de_Jour said:
My blood also boiled when he went over some of the stuff in Saudi Arabia. I’m glad that in their strives to diversify their economy past oil with the Saudi Vision 2030 it’s forced their hand to start to make some long overdue changes to their society, especially for women, but it’s still a shit show.GrundleStiltzkin said:3. Iran
Seriously, fuck those guys. I've read a ton of books in the last several years that have some touch point in the Middle East, mostly from a "war on terror" perspective. Iran comes up a lot in those, natch. However, this book for me really crystalized that amount of malarkey the Iranian government drops across the region. Directly or through proxies, Iran seems to responsible for at least 81% of the troubles in the region. Weº know they hate usº, this is understood, but let's not loose sight of how much Iran seems to hate every other ME government.
Aside 1: Who knew that Houthi isn't an ethnic minority group, but an Islamist rebel group named after their former leader who was vaporized by the Saudis? I did not. Just from snips and headlines covering SA's actions against them, I had the impression that Houthis vs. Saudis was something akin to Shiite vs. Sunni. Nope, Iranian backed guerrillas.
Aside 2: What a clusterfuck de-Baathification was in Iraq. Terrible decision. -
A comedy tonight!GrundleStiltzkin said:
Commandos, tear gas, flood tunnels, something for everyone.Doog_de_Jour said:
The survey of the ME history class I took at UW was great. I don’t remember about the Grand Mosque Siege. I’ll need to re-read up on it.GrundleStiltzkin said:
In a couple of the ME books I've read, there's greater detail about the Grand Mosque siege in 1978(?). Crazy shit.Doog_de_Jour said:
My blood also boiled when he went over some of the stuff in Saudi Arabia. I’m glad that in their strives to diversify their economy past oil with the Saudi Vision 2030 it’s forced their hand to start to make some long overdue changes to their society, especially for women, but it’s still a shit show.GrundleStiltzkin said:3. Iran
Seriously, fuck those guys. I've read a ton of books in the last several years that have some touch point in the Middle East, mostly from a "war on terror" perspective. Iran comes up a lot in those, natch. However, this book for me really crystalized that amount of malarkey the Iranian government drops across the region. Directly or through proxies, Iran seems to responsible for at least 81% of the troubles in the region. Weº know they hate usº, this is understood, but let's not loose sight of how much Iran seems to hate every other ME government.
Aside 1: Who knew that Houthi isn't an ethnic minority group, but an Islamist rebel group named after their former leader who was vaporized by the Saudis? I did not. Just from snips and headlines covering SA's actions against them, I had the impression that Houthis vs. Saudis was something akin to Shiite vs. Sunni. Nope, Iranian backed guerrillas.
Aside 2: What a clusterfuck de-Baathification was in Iraq. Terrible decision. -
Hadn’t read the book but from what I read of the article/review I’d argue otherwise...should be noted that the author of this review isn't a WP staff writer or book reviewer...he’s an environmental activist (and a bit nuts IMHO) from a quick Google search of him.Doog_de_Jour said:OK, back to the book...
Before I launch into what I thought of it and respond to other’s observations, here’s a book review by WaPo that picks apart some of the author’s points:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-global-energy-study-that-misses-some-climate-change-realities/2020/09/24/1addeb3e-f2b3-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.html
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You had an outstanding run. I'm proud of you.GrundleStiltzkin said:Looks like I've run through my bullet poonts. Sad.
In sum, I thought this was a fantastic book. I love big-picture stuff reinforced with individual examples, and this author is outstanding at that in my opinion. A year ago, this was a subject I knew almost nothing about other than skimming the occasional WSJ article. Then on a whim I read Energy by Rhodes (yes, I know everyone is sick of me raving about that book). That book gave me the foundational understanding of the importance—and historical rarity—of plentiful energy for human prosperity. Stacked up on that, The New Map gave me a better understanding of how that is accomplished from the 30K foot view.
If there's further discussion to have with anyone, I look forward to it. Otherwise, thus ends Book Clerb.
Thanks for reading ;-} -
Bury the lede?HoustonHusky said:
Hadn’t read the book but from what I read of the article/review I’d argue otherwise...should be noted that the author of this review isn't a WP staff writer or book reviewer...he’s an environmental activist (and a bit nuts IMHO) from a quick Google search of him.Doog_de_Jour said:OK, back to the book...
Before I launch into what I thought of it and respond to other’s observations, here’s a book review by WaPo that picks apart some of the author’s points:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-global-energy-study-that-misses-some-climate-change-realities/2020/09/24/1addeb3e-f2b3-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.htmlBill McKibben, the author most recently of “Falter: Has the Human Game Begun to Play Itself Out?,” is the founder of the global climate campaign 350.org and the Schumann Distinguished Scholar in environmental studies at Middlebury College.
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