Thousands of service members refuse vaccine

doogie · February 2021

Yesterday it was Zuckerberg setting the alarm on the unknown effects of human dna altering vaccine. Today, this.

WASHINGTON — By the thousands, U.S. service members are refusing or putting off the Covid-19 vaccine as frustrated commanders scramble to knock down internet rumors and find the right pitch that will persuade troops to get the shot.

Some Army units are seeing as few as one-third agree to the vaccine. Military leaders searching for answers believe they have identified one potential convincer: an imminent deployment. Navy sailors on ships heading out to sea last week, for example, were choosing to take the shot at rates exceeding 80 percent to 90 percent.

Air Force Maj. Gen. Jeff Taliaferro, vice director of operations for the Joint Staff, told Congress on Wednesday that “very early data” suggests that just up to two-thirds of the service members offered the vaccine have accepted.

Time for the motivations of Mr. Fow Chee to be put under the microscope?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/thousands-service-members-saying-no-covid-vaccine-n1258214

Bob_C · February 2021

Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.

dflea · February 2021

Like they have a choice.

RaceBannon · February 2021

dflea said:
Like they have a choice.

That was my first thought too but its a new army. Sounds like the leaders are stumped

creepycoug · February 2021

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.

The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.

Sledog · February 2021

It's not a vaccine. Science and shit.

PurpleThrobber · February 2021

RaceBannon said:

dflea said:
Like they have a choice.

That was my first thought too but its a new army. Sounds like the leaders are stumped

You mean, maybe the troops use this thing called the interwebs and do some research on probability of dying from the Vid vs. chance of dying from the vaccine?!?

Maybe the commanders should whip out their gloves and bitch slap the anti-vaxxers ala Patton.

RoadTrip · February 2021

creepycoug said:

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.

I think by now most of us have either heard of or personally knows someone who was particularly hit harder than most or perhaps has even died from COVID-19 when they were otherwise very healthy. In another thread, it was pointed out that, between October to February 2020, less than 200 people in our country had been hospitalized for the regular flu. During that same time frame in 2019, well more than 200,000 people had been hospitalized. So I wonder CC, how many of these "otherwise healthy" people we know would have been hit particularly hard by a normal flu and potentially would have died from it? Every year before COVID-19 we would hear strange stories of people dying from things like the common flu or cold but it just wasn't as popular of a story which now keeps us (IMO intentionally) paralyzed as a country.

doogie · February 2021

I know a younger healthy guy with no comorbidities who wasn’t fat who died of Brain cancer.

Same with heart issues, cancer, kidneys, etc, etc.

Bad shit happens to good people sometimes. Although people have and will continue to die, Humanity will live thru Covid 19

TurdBomber · February 2021

creepycoug said:

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.

We also had compromised and conflicted politically-driven assholes running the show and spewing unscientific propaganda from the Medical side. Fauci's a vaccine-obsessed asshole, period. His endorsement of the lie that Hydroxycloroquine caused heart attacks was shameful, if not criminal. Many people were helped by that drug, along with Remdesivir, Regeneron and other anti-malaria or anti-viral drugs when they were deployed therapeutically, even though neither constituted a cure. A lot of anti-Trump types have blood on their hands including a heavyweight right in our front yard.

The we-always-know-best Gates Foundation strikes again. https://dossier.substack.com/p/how-the-gates-foundation-seeded-americas

The immediate politicization of the virus and virus response and the desire to blame Trump for all of it brought out the worst in our society. Petty turf wars, TV doctors talking out of their asses about studies they hadn't even read, Fauci's casual grandpa we-got-this attitude and his shifting positions on PPE equipment, especially masks, it was a fucking circus all the way around.

Contrary to the narrative about Trump's incompetence, I think the response to the virus has shown us exactly how misleading, unaccountable and incompetent our out-of-sight, out-of-mind Federal Government bureaucrats have become, all the while amassing an increasing amount of power and influence over our lives via the mainstream media that throws softballs to anyone they like, while personally trashing anyone they don't.

We are a fucked up nation, and it's up to us to figure out what the media won't tell us, or prefers to lie about in some petty, personal war of the day.

creepycoug · February 2021

doogie said:
I know a younger healthy guy with no comorbidities who wasn’t fat who died of Brain cancer.

Same with heart issues, cancer, kidneys, etc, etc.

Bad shit happens to good people sometimes. Although people have and will continue to die, Humanity will live thru Covid 19

Yeah, I know all that doogie. I'll just leave it at, I haven't in my 50 years known of people dying from those things who all had one other thing in common. YMMV.

creepycoug · February 2021

TurdBomber said:

creepycoug said:

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.
We also had compromised and conflicted politically-driven assholes running the show and spewing unscientific propaganda from the Medical side. Fauci's a vaccine-obsessed asshole, period. His endorsement of the lie that Hydroxycloroquine caused heart attacks was shameful, if not criminal. Many people were helped by that drug, along with Remdesivir, Regeneron and other anti-malaria or anti-viral drugs when they were deployed therapeutically, even though neither constituted a cure. A lot of anti-Trump types have blood on their hands including a heavyweight right in our front yard.

The we-always-know-best Gates Foundation strikes again. https://dossier.substack.com/p/how-the-gates-foundation-seeded-americas

The immediate politicization of the virus and virus response and the desire to blame Trump for all of it brought out the worst in our society. Petty turf wars, TV doctors talking out of their asses about studies they hadn't even read, Fauci's casual grandpa we-got-this attitude and his shifting positions on PPE equipment, especially masks, it was a fucking circus all the way around.

Contrary to the narrative about Trump's incompetence, I think the response to the virus has shown us exactly how misleading, unaccountable and incompetent our out-of-sight, out-of-mind Federal Government bureaucrats have become, all the while amassing an increasing amount of power and influence over our lives via the mainstream media that throws softballs to anyone they like, while personally trashing anyone they don't.

We are a fucked up nation, and it's up to us to figure out what the media won't tell us, or prefers to lie about in some petty, personal war of the day.

I agree with much of that, in particular the politicization of the virus. But at the risk of "fine people on both sides"-ing this conversation, there were fine people on both sides making this political. There's plenty of shit to smear around for everybody.

I've vacillated on Trump's culpability. My first take, and probably still my take, is that I was loathe to second guess how the POTUS should react to such novel, out of nowhere, catastrophe. I had mostly a "well what would you do?" attitude. Then I shared some of @GrundleStiltzkin 's view that he seemed to bungle it a little with concerns about the economy and indecisiveness and perhaps could have done better in the early stages with a clear and consistent voice on the matter. He seemed to swing back and forth from "this is bad. this is really bad," to "look at me; I'm not wearing a mask." So of all the people playing the politics game, I'd have to score it as him being one of them. And, after all, who does Fauci work for?

Still, I also empathize with Trump's position, because it was no-win all along.

I'm generally a believer in vaccines, so we might agree to disagree there. No I'm not excited about a rushed vaccine; but generally am not troubled by medical people believing in what they believe in.

Fauci's biggest fumble was the mask bit. People opposed to him have run with it.

creepycoug · February 2021

RoadTrip said:

creepycoug said:

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.
I think by now most of us have either heard of or personally knows someone who was particularly hit harder than most or perhaps has even died from COVID-19 when they were otherwise very healthy. In another thread, it was pointed out that, between October to February 2020, less than 200 people in our country had been hospitalized for the regular flu. During that same time frame in 2019, well more than 200,000 people had been hospitalized. So I wonder CC, how many of these "otherwise healthy" people we know would have been hit particularly hard by a normal flu and potentially would have died from it? Every year before COVID-19 we would hear strange stories of people dying from things like the common flu or cold but it just wasn't as popular of a story which now keeps us (IMO intentionally) paralyzed as a country.

I can't really disagree with any of that. I suspect there is a lot less flu because nobody goes anywhere now and are taking precautions like washing their hands, which probably has always made sense to do.

But I can't slice and dice how COVID is different other than, perhaps, it is more easily spread? I'm not sure I even know that.

RaceBannon · February 2021

creepycoug said:

TurdBomber said:

creepycoug said:

Bob_C said:
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.

We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.

Bad deal all around.
We also had compromised and conflicted politically-driven assholes running the show and spewing unscientific propaganda from the Medical side. Fauci's a vaccine-obsessed asshole, period. His endorsement of the lie that Hydroxycloroquine caused heart attacks was shameful, if not criminal. Many people were helped by that drug, along with Remdesivir, Regeneron and other anti-malaria or anti-viral drugs when they were deployed therapeutically, even though neither constituted a cure. A lot of anti-Trump types have blood on their hands including a heavyweight right in our front yard.

The we-always-know-best Gates Foundation strikes again. https://dossier.substack.com/p/how-the-gates-foundation-seeded-americas

The immediate politicization of the virus and virus response and the desire to blame Trump for all of it brought out the worst in our society. Petty turf wars, TV doctors talking out of their asses about studies they hadn't even read, Fauci's casual grandpa we-got-this attitude and his shifting positions on PPE equipment, especially masks, it was a fucking circus all the way around.

Contrary to the narrative about Trump's incompetence, I think the response to the virus has shown us exactly how misleading, unaccountable and incompetent our out-of-sight, out-of-mind Federal Government bureaucrats have become, all the while amassing an increasing amount of power and influence over our lives via the mainstream media that throws softballs to anyone they like, while personally trashing anyone they don't.

We are a fucked up nation, and it's up to us to figure out what the media won't tell us, or prefers to lie about in some petty, personal war of the day.
I agree with much of that, in particular the politicization of the virus. But at the risk of "fine people on both sides"-ing this conversation, there were fine people on both sides making this political. There's plenty of shit to smear around for everybody.

I've vacillated on Trump's culpability. My first take, and probably still my take, is that I was loathe to second guess how the POTUS should react to such novel, out of nowhere, catastrophe. I had mostly a "well what would you do?" attitude. Then I shared some of @GrundleStiltzkin 's view that he seemed to bungle it a little with concerns about the economy and indecisiveness and perhaps could have done better in the early stages with a clear and consistent voice on the matter. He seemed to swing back and forth from "this is bad. this is really bad," to "look at me; I'm not wearing a mask." So of all the people playing the politics game, I'd have to score it as him being one of them. And, after all, who does Fauci work for?

Still, I also empathize with Trump's position, because it was no-win all along.

I'm generally a believer in vaccines, so we might agree to disagree there. No I'm not excited about a rushed vaccine; but generally am not troubled by medical people believing in what they believe in.

Fauci's biggest fumble was the mask bit. People opposed to him have run with it.

Biden has literally done nothing different than Trump right down to it is what it is and 80K dead since he took office

The difference is in the media messaging not the White House. Trump let the states make their rules and Biden hasn't changed that either other than some stupid mask mandates where masks were already mandated

The ONLY reason I give Biden shit and will continue to do so relentlessly and remorselessly is because of how this was politicized. I've said before it is harder to unscare folks than to scare them

Never before was POTUS held responsible for a virus. And won't be again at least or four years.

We should have stayed open and acted like a man like we did every other time

And that isn't second guessing on my part. I said it when this shitshow of two weeks started a year ago.

RaceBannon · February 2021

And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED

PurpleThrobber · February 2021

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED

#GatesVaccineShill

#$$$$$$$$

creepycoug · February 2021

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED

By Trump?

PurpleThrobber · February 2021

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?

The Cabal.

Or The Alliance.

I'm not sure which - I came in late to the performance art. But I dig it.

RaceBannon · February 2021

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?

and Biden

Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.

And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan

He had one job

RaceBannon · February 2021

PurpleThrobber said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
The Cabal.

Or The Alliance.

I'm not sure which - I came in late to the performance art. But I dig it.

Bill Gates

Always works as an answer

NorthwestFresh · February 2021

RaceBannon said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden

Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.

And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan

He had one job

Kamala is insisting that they had to “start from scratch” even after Fauci vehemently denies it. If it is true that there was no plan, which is bullshit on its surface but go with me here, then Fauci should be fired. Period. Instead, he’s still in charge.

Harris is fabricating a crisis that doesn’t exist to excuse her administration’s lack of any new plan other than masks on federal property. Everything else was continued, including the vaccinations.

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Thousands of service members refuse vaccine

Comments