Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.
We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.
Bad deal all around.
We also had compromised and conflicted politically-driven assholes running the show and spewing unscientific propaganda from the Medical side. Fauci's a vaccine-obsessed asshole, period. His endorsement of the lie that Hydroxycloroquine caused heart attacks was shameful, if not criminal. Many people were helped by that drug, along with Remdesivir, Regeneron and other anti-malaria or anti-viral drugs when they were deployed therapeutically, even though neither constituted a cure. A lot of anti-Trump types have blood on their hands including a heavyweight right in our front yard.
The immediate politicization of the virus and virus response and the desire to blame Trump for all of it brought out the worst in our society. Petty turf wars, TV doctors talking out of their asses about studies they hadn't even read, Fauci's casual grandpa we-got-this attitude and his shifting positions on PPE equipment, especially masks, it was a fucking circus all the way around.
Contrary to the narrative about Trump's incompetence, I think the response to the virus has shown us exactly how misleading, unaccountable and incompetent our out-of-sight, out-of-mind Federal Government bureaucrats have become, all the while amassing an increasing amount of power and influence over our lives via the mainstream media that throws softballs to anyone they like, while personally trashing anyone they don't.
We are a fucked up nation, and it's up to us to figure out what the media won't tell us, or prefers to lie about in some petty, personal war of the day.
I agree with much of that, in particular the politicization of the virus. But at the risk of "fine people on both sides"-ing this conversation, there were fine people on both sides making this political. There's plenty of shit to smear around for everybody.
I've vacillated on Trump's culpability. My first take, and probably still my take, is that I was loathe to second guess how the POTUS should react to such novel, out of nowhere, catastrophe. I had mostly a "well what would you do?" attitude. Then I shared some of @GrundleStiltzkin 's view that he seemed to bungle it a little with concerns about the economy and indecisiveness and perhaps could have done better in the early stages with a clear and consistent voice on the matter. He seemed to swing back and forth from "this is bad. this is really bad," to "look at me; I'm not wearing a mask." So of all the people playing the politics game, I'd have to score it as him being one of them. And, after all, who does Fauci work for?
Still, I also empathize with Trump's position, because it was no-win all along.
I'm generally a believer in vaccines, so we might agree to disagree there. No I'm not excited about a rushed vaccine; but generally am not troubled by medical people believing in what they believe in.
Fauci's biggest fumble was the mask bit. People opposed to him have run with it.
Fauci's message was essentially, if you get it, you're fucked until we get a vaccine. He poo-poo'd almost every interim measure and therapy, including off-label use drugs, repeatedly claiming "there's no evidence showing that works" - which was total bullshit - because he hadn't yet read long winded studies and experiments showing old drugs could combat a new virus. Fauci basically shit on every therapeutic approach because he had tunnel vision about a vaccine. More of an academic than a treating physician, Fauci's stubborn obtuseness and dismissive attitude toward anything outside his wheelhouse cost a lot of lives.
I'm not anti vaccines, btw. I am pro all-hands-on-deck. Most reasonable people would walk and chew gum at the same time, using interim measures that showed promise and anecdotal results while concurrently working round the clock on a vaccine. Fauci never endorsed that approach, which is unforgivable.
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.
We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.
Bad deal all around.
We also had compromised and conflicted politically-driven assholes running the show and spewing unscientific propaganda from the Medical side. Fauci's a vaccine-obsessed asshole, period. His endorsement of the lie that Hydroxycloroquine caused heart attacks was shameful, if not criminal. Many people were helped by that drug, along with Remdesivir, Regeneron and other anti-malaria or anti-viral drugs when they were deployed therapeutically, even though neither constituted a cure. A lot of anti-Trump types have blood on their hands including a heavyweight right in our front yard.
The immediate politicization of the virus and virus response and the desire to blame Trump for all of it brought out the worst in our society. Petty turf wars, TV doctors talking out of their asses about studies they hadn't even read, Fauci's casual grandpa we-got-this attitude and his shifting positions on PPE equipment, especially masks, it was a fucking circus all the way around.
Contrary to the narrative about Trump's incompetence, I think the response to the virus has shown us exactly how misleading, unaccountable and incompetent our out-of-sight, out-of-mind Federal Government bureaucrats have become, all the while amassing an increasing amount of power and influence over our lives via the mainstream media that throws softballs to anyone they like, while personally trashing anyone they don't.
We are a fucked up nation, and it's up to us to figure out what the media won't tell us, or prefers to lie about in some petty, personal war of the day.
I agree with much of that, in particular the politicization of the virus. But at the risk of "fine people on both sides"-ing this conversation, there were fine people on both sides making this political. There's plenty of shit to smear around for everybody.
I've vacillated on Trump's culpability. My first take, and probably still my take, is that I was loathe to second guess how the POTUS should react to such novel, out of nowhere, catastrophe. I had mostly a "well what would you do?" attitude. Then I shared some of @GrundleStiltzkin 's view that he seemed to bungle it a little with concerns about the economy and indecisiveness and perhaps could have done better in the early stages with a clear and consistent voice on the matter. He seemed to swing back and forth from "this is bad. this is really bad," to "look at me; I'm not wearing a mask." So of all the people playing the politics game, I'd have to score it as him being one of them. And, after all, who does Fauci work for?
Still, I also empathize with Trump's position, because it was no-win all along.
I'm generally a believer in vaccines, so we might agree to disagree there. No I'm not excited about a rushed vaccine; but generally am not troubled by medical people believing in what they believe in.
Fauci's biggest fumble was the mask bit. People opposed to him have run with it.
Fauci's message was essentially, if you get it, you're fucked until we get a vaccine. He poo-poo'd almost every interim measure and therapy, including off-label use drugs, repeatedly claiming "there's no evidence showing that works" - which was total bullshit - because he hadn't yet read long winded studies and experiments showing old drugs could combat a new virus. Fauci basically shit on every therapeutic approach because he had tunnel vision about a vaccine. More of an academic than a treating physician, Fauci's stubborn obtuseness and dismissive attitude toward anything outside his wheelhouse cost a lot of lives.
I'm not anti vaccines, btw. I am pro all-hands-on-deck. Most reasonable people would walk and chew gum at the same time, using interim measures that showed promise and anecdotal results while concurrently working round the clock on a vaccine. Fauci never endorsed that approach, which is unforgivable.
And next time something comes around it’s going to be further lockdown, create more stimulus and wait for the next vaccine. No one will have learned anything.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
Politics aside, there is essentially no upside for a youngish person to get the vaccine. Essentially fixed and known very low risk of issues if infected. Unknown long term risk from the vaccine itself. No freedom of return to normalcy reward if vaccine is taken. It’s basic game theory and people know it. Each day that goes by youngish people will become less and less likely to take it if offered.
The jury is out on the variant. In our larger social circle, there have been some young folks who've been whacked by it pretty hard. And, it seems, the long-term effects of the virus are also unknown. The guy I mentioned in my neighborhood several months ago who almost died of it last spring and spent months in Evergreen Hospital appears to be a long-hauler ... his lungs are fucked up and he's having issues with his kidneys, among other things. He's younger than I am (I'm early 50s) and had no pre-existing conditions and was healthy.
We're kidding ourselves if we think anyone can have this discussion in a politically neutral context. It's about the most politically charged thing I can think of. And I see even my most politically strident friends and family members take hard stances on it only to betray those stances later on, which is evidence of one thing: the collective "we" don't know what to do with it. I don't want to be first in line at the vaccine store either; but I also don't want this thing and I don't want one of my kids getting it. The intel to which I have access from a company level is that the variant is fast on its way to not being the variant, but the dominant, strain of this virus. We can play tuff guy about it all we want, but the truth is we lost the race to stamp this out before it started mutating. Fuck, it probably started mutating last year.
Bad deal all around.
I think by now most of us have either heard of or personally knows someone who was particularly hit harder than most or perhaps has even died from COVID-19 when they were otherwise very healthy. In another thread, it was pointed out that, between October to February 2020, less than 200 people in our country had been hospitalized for the regular flu. During that same time frame in 2019, well more than 200,000 people had been hospitalized. So I wonder CC, how many of these "otherwise healthy" people we know would have been hit particularly hard by a normal flu and potentially would have died from it? Every year before COVID-19 we would hear strange stories of people dying from things like the common flu or cold but it just wasn't as popular of a story which now keeps us (IMO intentionally) paralyzed as a country.
I don’t know a single person that was whacked around by COVID. Most people say they think they have had it, were sick for a week or so back in (fill in date).
I’m over it. No flu anymore, no bronchitis, no bad colds. It’s all Covid. Covid has been fishy all along, but now it’s total bullshit. It’s over, yet here they are recommending we wear two masks.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I guess I can't really debate that too much, other than to say that my general impression of medicine lines up with his reaction. They tend to not think the way you describe and, as a group, can be terribly dismissive of knowledge that is generated outside of the club. We as a society are to blame because we worship docs like no other calling.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
There is no corona virus, it's never been isolated and never been proven to exist.
Viruses as a whole do not exist, and have never been proven to exist. Viruses are a fiction that didn't 'exist' until 1892. The concept of viruses was created by the Dark Forces in control of the World, by the Medical Establishment and Big Pharma. Viruses, which don't exist, are a cash cow that they have been milking at your expense for more than a century.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
Fauci is close to untouchable because of big pharma.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
Fauci is close to untouchable because of big pharma.
Doesn't apply to Trump. Or tell me how Trump GAF about big pharma. GMAFB. This is the guy whose entire election platform is that he is not that guy.
Bullshit. Fauci was and in touchable if you have the balls. Trump had the balls to touch a lot of people. I've yet to hear a credible argument on that point.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
Again, we are talking about Trump. The guy who wasn't exactly cozy with the media. Why would he GAF?
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF about?
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
Again, we are talking about Trump. The guy who wasn't exactly cozy with the media. Why would he GAF?
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF
Fauci was a punching bag to the base. We're smart and stuff. Firing him was the wrong move
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
Again, we are talking about Trump. The guy who wasn't exactly cozy with the media. Why would he GAF?
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF
Fauci was a punching bag to the base. We're smart and stuff. Firing him was the wrong move
Wrong for who? Trump? What would it have cost him?
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
Again, we are talking about Trump. The guy who wasn't exactly cozy with the media. Why would he GAF?
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF about?
It was a novel virus causing a worldwide pandemic. People were scared. People don't act like their normal selves, nor rationally when they are scared.
For all I know Trump was telling Melania, "I don't know shit about viruses, for fuck sake. I'm a real estate developer and reality show guy who grabs women by the pussy! WTF do I know about pandemics?"
Point is it's all speculation why Trump broke character and didn't fire Fauci by May.
Maybe the pics of the Russian hookers peeing in Trump's mouth were in Fauci's file cabinet. I don't fucking know.
And Fauci who had 40 years to prepare and still doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about was RETAINED
By Trump?
and Biden
Trump couldn't have fired Fauci once it got rolling. You don't fire Brad Pitt.
And if he had Biden would have brought him back. Fauci is a hero to the media and the democrats going back to Reagan
He had one job
We will agree to disagree on that point. That feels like Trump apologizing to me. Trump went through people in his cabinet like shit through a goose. That guys fires whoever he wants whenever he wants, and wasn't exactly shy about the blow-back.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I'll do the same for Fauci, but only to a point. His condescension toward ideas outside of the "vaccines cure epidemics, not off-label drugs" mantra perpetuated by himself, the media and blue state governors who threatened to go after the medical licenses of doctors prescribing Hydroxycloroquine (sp) or other off-label drugs was a textbook example of we-always-know-best elitism, IMO. Hydroxy, a 65 year old drug, was harmless to 99% of the people who took it, but Fauci and the media totally misrepresented it's dangers and side-effects, most likely to protect the Big Pharma manufacturers future profits. If you have a better reason, I'm all ears.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I think in other posts in this thread we settled this point, but to be clear, my reference to apologizing was to say that Trump "couldn't fire Fauci," and my response is, sure he could have. He never held back for fear of pissing people off and fired people in his administration relentlessly. Hard to bag on Biden for keeping Fauci and give Trump a pass for not firing him. He could have fired him. I think he didn't because, like the rest of us, he wasn't sure what to do.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
I think Trump realized that Fauci was well-liked by the media and public after his first couple of press conferences. Where I saw Igor the Lab Rat who lived in a dark cellar, most of the country saw a sweet old man who spoke softly and pleasantly to the media. Plus, given his size, Trump didn't want to be further accused of bullying him. Most of the other guys Trump fired wouldn't be recognized in public. Fauci was a media darling.
Again, we are talking about Trump. The guy who wasn't exactly cozy with the media. Why would he GAF?
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF
Fauci was a punching bag to the base. We're smart and stuff. Firing him was the wrong move
Wrong for who? Trump? What would it have cost him?
Trump didn't want to fuck with what he thought was his best chance to get the economy back on track, which was for Fauci to find a miracle. Anything short of that was going to tank the economy and ruin his re-election chances. Trump hates the media, but he also knows how much power it yields. And they got what they wanted this time around.
Comments
I think he was in the Alliance but switched to the Cabal.
Like when Lex Luthor went from being a bad guy to a good guy.
I'm not anti vaccines, btw. I am pro all-hands-on-deck. Most reasonable people would walk and chew gum at the same time, using interim measures that showed promise and anecdotal results while concurrently working round the clock on a vaccine. Fauci never endorsed that approach, which is unforgivable.
His base would have fucking LOVED him for firing Fauci.
Of course Biden is going to keep him on. No surprise there. But if you have someone in Fauci's position, and you think he's fucking it up, and you have the power to fire him, then if you're Trump you fire him. And he would have, I have no doubt, if he knew how to really feel about the virus. Trump didn't know. I don't blame him for that; but he was inconsistent about it in the beginning.
Like I said, I pretty much give him a pass because it was unforeseen and I didn't have any better ideas.
I’m over it. No flu anymore, no bronchitis, no bad colds. It’s all Covid. Covid has been fishy all along, but now it’s total bullshit. It’s over, yet here they are recommending we wear two masks.
Trump was overly optimistic in the early months because he knew a tanking economy was going to fuck his re-election chances. At the same time, as the media poured on the doom and gloom, Trump was one of the few voices encouraging people that we - the US - could beat this thing.
Was that stupid in hindsight? Maybe, but shit, somebody in the huddle has to say "let's fucking go!" And that wasn't gonna be the media, who cherished every covid death as another nail in Trump's coffin.
There's way too much blame to go around to accuse people of Trump "apologizing." It was obvious to me that stuff like "returning to normal by Easter" was overly optimistic, but Trump's not a doctor. In that situation, he's a cheerleader.
I agree with the positive messaging and all that; but this was an issue that we haven't faced in modern time. That's why, like I said, I didn't judge Trump too harshly on how he handled it. But I do think he was inconsistent about it. Whether that mattered or not is hard to say; it probably doesn't change anything.
Viruses as a whole do not exist, and have never been proven to exist. Viruses are a fiction that didn't 'exist' until 1892. The concept of viruses was created by the Dark Forces in control of the World, by the Medical Establishment and Big Pharma. Viruses, which don't exist, are a cash cow that they have been milking at your expense for more than a century.
Bullshit. Fauci was and in touchable if you have the balls. Trump had the balls to touch a lot of people. I've yet to hear a credible argument on that point.
He got his base to turn on Fauci. Or Fauci did it himself. Either way, tell me how Trump suffers in any way he GAF about?
In retrospect, he should have fired Fauci early on and rendered the 79 year old a spiteful outsider on msnbc
What did he have to lose?
For all I know Trump was telling Melania, "I don't know shit about viruses, for fuck sake. I'm a real estate developer and reality show guy who grabs women by the pussy! WTF do I know about pandemics?"
Point is it's all speculation why Trump broke character and didn't fire Fauci by May.
Maybe the pics of the Russian hookers peeing in Trump's mouth were in Fauci's file cabinet. I don't fucking know.