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Tesla buys $1.5 billion in Bitcoin

2

Comments

  • GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,165

    The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

    My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

    With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

    Interesting point of discussion. We're probably equally clueless when it comes to technical matters of cyber security, but my impression has always been that bitcoin can only be hacked to the extent that an individual exchange allows it to be. Genuine question to any of our lurking comp sci nerds on the board, but is it any different than "hacking" someone's stock portfolio (and I realize I sound like a bad Hollywood screenwriter with how that question was posed)?

    Now granted I'm sure Coinbase and Kraken and whatever other rinky-dink exchanges are out there lack the cyber security infrastructure of your Fidelitys and Vanguards. But I would also expect that as bitcoin becomes more mainstream that that vulnerability begins to correct itself.
  • backthepackbackthepack Member Posts: 19,915

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
  • Bob_CBob_C Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,861 Swaye's Wigwam
    Goduckies said:

    And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

    If it does become real competition for the dollar, which is plausible, what is preventing the US government from just deciding to shut it down? Not with laws, but by sabotage.
  • GoduckiesGoduckies Member Posts: 6,804

    The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

    My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

    With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

    Interesting point of discussion. We're probably equally clueless when it comes to technical matters of cyber security, but my impression has always been that bitcoin can only be hacked to the extent that an individual exchange allows it to be. Genuine question to any of our lurking comp sci nerds on the board, but is it any different than "hacking" someone's stock portfolio (and I realize I sound like a bad Hollywood screenwriter with how that question was posed)?

    Now granted I'm sure Coinbase and Kraken and whatever other rinky-dink exchanges are out there lack the cyber security infrastructure of your Fidelitys and Vanguards. But I would also expect that as bitcoin becomes more mainstream that that vulnerability begins to correct itself.
    Stock portfolios are guaranteed by SIPC for hacks and fraud etc bitcoin you are just screwed... no help desk.
  • GoduckiesGoduckies Member Posts: 6,804
    Bob_C said:

    Goduckies said:

    And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

    If it does become real competition for the dollar, which is plausible, what is preventing the US government from just deciding to shut it down? Not with laws, but by sabotage.
    It's already being manipulated now by the chicoms
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,725 Standard Supporter
    Goduckies said:

    Bob_C said:

    Goduckies said:

    And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

    If it does become real competition for the dollar, which is plausible, what is preventing the US government from just deciding to shut it down? Not with laws, but by sabotage.
    It's already being manipulated now by the chicoms
    Are we talking bitcoin or election results?

    I know - take that to the Tug

  • GoduckiesGoduckies Member Posts: 6,804
    Bob_C said:

    Goduckies said:

    And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

    If it does become real competition for the dollar, which is plausible, what is preventing the US government from just deciding to shut it down? Not with laws, but by sabotage.
    It's already being manipulated now by the chicoms

    Goduckies said:

    Bob_C said:

    Goduckies said:

    And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

    If it does become real competition for the dollar, which is plausible, what is preventing the US government from just deciding to shut it down? Not with laws, but by sabotage.
    It's already being manipulated now by the chicoms
    Are we talking bitcoin or election results?

    I know - take that to the Tug

    Both
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    Goduckies said:

    The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

    My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

    With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

    Interesting point of discussion. We're probably equally clueless when it comes to technical matters of cyber security, but my impression has always been that bitcoin can only be hacked to the extent that an individual exchange allows it to be. Genuine question to any of our lurking comp sci nerds on the board, but is it any different than "hacking" someone's stock portfolio (and I realize I sound like a bad Hollywood screenwriter with how that question was posed)?

    Now granted I'm sure Coinbase and Kraken and whatever other rinky-dink exchanges are out there lack the cyber security infrastructure of your Fidelitys and Vanguards. But I would also expect that as bitcoin becomes more mainstream that that vulnerability begins to correct itself.
    Stock portfolios are guaranteed by SIPC for hacks and fraud etc bitcoin you are just screwed... no help desk.
    GUARANTEED by the SIPC

    LOL

    sure.gif
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,623

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
  • GoduckiesGoduckies Member Posts: 6,804
    doogie said:

    Goduckies said:

    The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

    My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

    With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

    Interesting point of discussion. We're probably equally clueless when it comes to technical matters of cyber security, but my impression has always been that bitcoin can only be hacked to the extent that an individual exchange allows it to be. Genuine question to any of our lurking comp sci nerds on the board, but is it any different than "hacking" someone's stock portfolio (and I realize I sound like a bad Hollywood screenwriter with how that question was posed)?

    Now granted I'm sure Coinbase and Kraken and whatever other rinky-dink exchanges are out there lack the cyber security infrastructure of your Fidelitys and Vanguards. But I would also expect that as bitcoin becomes more mainstream that that vulnerability begins to correct itself.
    Stock portfolios are guaranteed by SIPC for hacks and fraud etc bitcoin you are just screwed... no help desk.
    GUARANTEED by the SIPC

    LOL

    sure.gif
    I bet you don't even know what SIPC is, Mut
  • Mad_SonMad_Son Member Posts: 10,190

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
  • Mad_SonMad_Son Member Posts: 10,190

    The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

    My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

    With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

    Interesting point of discussion. We're probably equally clueless when it comes to technical matters of cyber security, but my impression has always been that bitcoin can only be hacked to the extent that an individual exchange allows it to be. Genuine question to any of our lurking comp sci nerds on the board, but is it any different than "hacking" someone's stock portfolio (and I realize I sound like a bad Hollywood screenwriter with how that question was posed)?

    Now granted I'm sure Coinbase and Kraken and whatever other rinky-dink exchanges are out there lack the cyber security infrastructure of your Fidelitys and Vanguards. But I would also expect that as bitcoin becomes more mainstream that that vulnerability begins to correct itself.
    Protect your password.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,623
    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    No.
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,725 Standard Supporter
    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

  • Mad_SonMad_Son Member Posts: 10,190

    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    I completely agree. I think it's one of those technologies like machine learning where it starts out niche and slowly accelerates until all of a sudden it's everywhere.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,623
    Mad_Son said:

    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    I completely agree. I think it's one of those technologies like machine learning where it starts out niche and slowly accelerates until all of a sudden it's everywhere.
    Sounds like I need to start block chaining my shit.
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,725 Standard Supporter
    Mad_Son said:

    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    I completely agree. I think it's one of those technologies like machine learning where it starts out niche and slowly accelerates until all of a sudden it's everywhere.
    The two big trends I see are blockchain and AI/automation. Once those collide seamlessly, you're going to essentially see accounting and the legal profession tossed on it's head. Paralegals and generalist high level cut and past attorneys (which is a massive proportion of the profession) - gone. Bookkeepers and accounting staff - gone. The data will be interpreted by artificial intelligence and the more mundane, repetitive tasks then transmitted and stored via block chain.

    They'll still be the need for higher level thinkers but go back to the days when there were legions of secretaries re-typing handwritten briefs/legal documents/financial statements. That was within my career span when computers were in their infancy. When's the last time anyone here gave hand-written stuff to their assistant to type up?





  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072

    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    I was told there would be no Private property and that you will Love ❤️ it.

    If the Government owners everything, why do we need Blockchain?
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,623
    doogie said:

    Mad_Son said:

    Goduckies said:

    My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

    I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

    Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.
    Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.
    Set how? By whom?
    The coders/creators of the currency. They set it how they want the crypto to behave.
    Can they reset it?
    Do you even blockchain?
    IMHO, blockchain is going to have larger ramifications than crypto.

    The technology is a natural replacement for pretty well any data-driven industry. Stupid shit like real estate title insurance companies - massive industry that pretty well becomes obsolete with a perfect trail of ownership on a parcel. Poof - gone, just gone. No need for it.

    Due diligence on any kind of transaction involving ownership -mining claims, oil royalties, etc. Gun registration. Car registration.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    I was told there would be no Private property and that you will Love ❤️ it.

    If the Government owners everything, why do we need Blockchain?
    Who.gif

    The Tug is your source?
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 5,196 Standard Supporter
    An article I read recently (yeah I read things) made the case that Tesla buying $1.5 billion of BTC is a bad sign that it doesn't have any uses of the cash right now.

    Do municipalities assess a sales tax if you buy something with BTC?

    Look at where the 10 year UST was 6 months ago and where it is now. If rates continue to march back towards 2% - 3% on the 10 year UST, it will be a bloodbath for crypto with the smart money moving into bonds while a bunch of millennials will be left with the dicks in their hands (assuming they still identify as male).
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