Tesla buys $1.5 billion in Bitcoin

AtomicPiss

Developing...

jecornel

pumped the price big time. Voyager app which is a crypto exchange has 80,000 people on their waiting list. Crypto is here to stay.

BleachedAnusDawg

Can I buy food and gas with crypto?

doogie

On Craigslist, yes.

BleachedAnusDawg

doogie said:

On Craigslist, yes.

That's bartering, not purchasing. I can probably buy food on Craigslist with old baseball cards.

Goduckies

Still seams like a ponsi scheme to me

Swaye

I rolled some nickels.

HoustonHusky

Love how they announce it the same day Chinese regulators were meeting with them about there quality issues.

Like China cares about quality...

GreenRiverGatorz

Goduckies said:

Still seams like a ponsi scheme to me

Why is that? I'm not sure I get the ponzi critique. I won't pretend to be a bitcoin expert, but it seems much more analogous to a precious metal/bullion. What are the ponzi elements of it?

backthepack

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Goduckies said:

Still seams like a ponsi scheme to me

Why is that? I'm not sure I get the ponzi critique. I won't pretend to be a bitcoin expert, but it seems much more analogous to a precious metal/bullion. What are the ponzi elements of it?

That’s literally what it is. It’s like the crypto version of “gold”. Limited supply and high demand incentivizes holding onto it.

Goduckies

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

creepycoug

backthepack said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Goduckies said:

Still seams like a ponsi scheme to me

Why is that? I'm not sure I get the ponzi critique. I won't pretend to be a bitcoin expert, but it seems much more analogous to a precious metal/bullion. What are the ponzi elements of it?

That’s literally what it is. It’s like the crypto version of “gold”. Limited supply and high demand incentivizes holding onto it.

Who limits? Who makes them? What if they change their minds?

creepycoug

Goduckies said:

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.

backthepack

creepycoug said:

backthepack said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Goduckies said:

Still seams like a ponsi scheme to me

Why is that? I'm not sure I get the ponzi critique. I won't pretend to be a bitcoin expert, but it seems much more analogous to a precious metal/bullion. What are the ponzi elements of it?

That’s literally what it is. It’s like the crypto version of “gold”. Limited supply and high demand incentivizes holding onto it.

Who limits? Who makes them? What if they change their minds?

The original creator set the limit for bitcoin at 21 million in 2010. I doubt he’ll change that. Don’t know if he can. Axe @sources

backthepack

creepycoug said:

Goduckies said:

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.

Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.

Goduckies

But either way, there is zero reason for valuation unlike a commodity

GreenRiverGatorz

Goduckies said:

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

I don't know if I agree that it can go to zero easily at this point. The amount of computing power involved in its mining, its decentralization, and the sheer volume of transactions gives it tremendous value. Value that can't be unwound by any one or even group of individuals. That gives it more permanence that any other non-commodity security. And sure, it's intrinsic value can be debated, though it certainly has some value given that it can be used to facilitate transactions in some corners of the internet much quicker than traditional currency. And that trend will only continue. How useful it becomes outside of just being an investment vehicle remains to be seen.

But that's all a bit moot. Because none of that really has anything to do with whether it's a ponzi scheme or not. Unless you're using that term very liberally and also think the entire fractional reserve banking system is a ponzi scheme. And I suppose some people do make that claim.

PurpleThrobber

GreenRiverGatorz said:

Goduckies said:

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

I don't know if I agree that it can go to zero easily at this point. The amount of computing power involved in its mining, its decentralization, and the sheer volume of transactions gives it tremendous value. Value that can't be unwound by any one or even group of individuals. That gives it more permanence that any other non-commodity security. And sure, it's intrinsic value can be debated, though it certainly has some value given that it can be used to facilitate transactions in some corners of the internet much quicker than traditional currency. And that trend will only continue. How useful it becomes outside of just being an investment vehicle remains to be seen.

But that's all a bit moot. Because none of that really has anything to do with whether it's a ponzi scheme or not. Unless you're using that term very liberally and also think the entire fractional reserve banking system is a ponzi scheme. And I suppose some people do make that claim.

Bitcoin isn't a ponzi by definition. It's a commodity gaining acceptance as a currency. Or not.

I can't imagine being the CFO for Tesla trying to account for the exchange rate risk. There's gonna be some geeked up accounting pronouncements coming down the pike. Is Bitcoin an investment on the balance sheet? Is it considered Cash and Cash Equivalent? If so - how the fuck to measure the volatility? There's going to have to be some P&L impact - whether realized or unrealized gain on "foreign" currency or through periodic revaluation of the investment. The fuck does that do to EPS?

Either way, it will be interesting.

HoustonHusky

The scarcity issue with bitcoin is fine (there is a finite number of them) and the concept in theory is fine as a digital equivalent to gold.

My problem with bitcoin is two-fold. 1) The holders...5 Chinese companies generate over half of the new bitcoin...in theory its brilliant as a transfer of assets. China burns coal to generate a shiteton of electricity to mine bitcoin, sell it on the open market to a bunch of Westerners for $$$. The concentration of assets of it as well is not comforting...most of the bitcoin are held by a relatively small number of people . 2) Security. Have a breach where a bunch of bitcoin get "stolen" and you'll see a massive correction in the price. I'm not a computer security guy, but it seems like stealing bitcoin electronically is a heck of a lot easier than trying to make off with a ton of gold, and as price appreciates the creativity of the crooks trying to do it goes up exponentially.

With all of these assets they will go up in uncertain and/or money-printing times and go down when things are nice and stable. Seems like a good bet they won't be going down anytime soon...

Goduckies

And again what is the purpose of bit coin? To hide transactions... well it can be tracked now so that purpose is more useless. There are plenty of other ways to money that are less costly and volatile. Problem with bitcoin is once a sell off starts there is no downside protection if you have a limit placed and it drops 20 to 30% there will be a lot more sell offs and you may not get your price and be left holding the bag, so you can't even 100% protect yourself that way. Add in the fact that it never turns off in trading and can go south any time 247 and it is a very dangerous investment imo.

creepycoug

backthepack said:

creepycoug said:

Goduckies said:

My reasoning is that gold is useful. Bitcoin can be replaced at any time and go to zero easily. Most other investment vehicles are either a product or commodity. Bit coin is neither. It's biggest advantage was to be able to hide the transaction from the feds, but they can even track it now. Also the growth is not based on anything real. It's just demand rises because people hear about it. Very much like a ponzi scheme.

I would say the only difference between gold and Crypto is that gold has a natural supply limit and thus scarcity.

Crypto? I have no idea. But it doesn’t sound like it.

Different cryptos has different supply levels. Some are infinite. Some are set.

Set how? By whom?