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General Bidness Etiquette Query

PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,724 Standard Supporter
edited May 2022 in Tug Tavern
What's a reasonable expectation for a response on an email/phone call to a vendor or professional? The Throbber has always conducted himself on the 24 hour return phone call or acknowledge email mode. Even if it's only "hey, I'm slammed but I saw your email and will get to it by xxxx".

Contractor this week, multiple calls. No response. Attorney same thing - multiple emails/voicemail on time sensitive stuff. That's just rude, imo. Radio silence is bullshit.

When do you take bidness elsewhere for such behavior?







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  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,724 Standard Supporter
    Doog_de_Jour said:

    I’m about to go on a rant here...

    This is more than a business issue. Our whole society has normalized bad manners.

    My company a year ago filled a position (and this isn’t just some low level job either) and DAY ONE the candidate doesn’t show. No call, no email, no text - nothing. We assume something tragic has happened (car accident, death in family, etc.). Multiple attempts to reach him to offer support, etc. go unanswered. A few days later a colleague who had added him on LinkedIn saw he had updated his profile to another position with another company.

    We were ghosted.

    Apparently this type behavior is becoming more common, and it has financial repercussions. For example, a supplier takes their time confirming receipt of your purchase order and estimated delivery date, it could have a big ripple effect.

    People seem to think manners are some stuffy relic of the Victorian era, but in reality it’s the glue that holds this shit show together.

    I say 24 hours/one business day is a reasonable expectation for a response, even in the COVID era. If they don’t get back right away and you’ve tried reaching out to them and STILL get crickets, well, that’s the professional equivalent of “he’s just not that into you” and start planning your exit strategy. In most cases you’ll be able to find a suitable replacement.

    The attorney in question just emailed back - she was exactly one hour and fiddy minutes from being terminated.

    I don't even care much whether they complete the designated task or provide a fully vetted reply. But, as you suggest, radio silence can have a ripple effect. Radio silence means the clock is ticking and with each hour of silence, something that wasn't a big deal starts to fester into a big deal.

    Rant noted. And fuck that guy that ghosted your company. Dick.



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  • whlinderwhlinder Member Posts: 4,947 Standard Supporter
    This is a good reminder that I probably need to respond faster. Of course it goes both ways, where I can go a week or more without receiving a response. I don't always expect one due to timezones, different work schedules, unknown holidays, people working reduced hours due to Vid.
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  • pawzpawz Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 21,232 Founders Club
    Swaye said:

    1to392831weretaken said:

    Doog_de_Jour said:

    I’m about to go on a rant here...

    This is more than a business issue. Our whole society has normalized bad manners.

    My company a year ago filled a position (and this isn’t just some low level job either) and DAY ONE the candidate doesn’t show. No call, no email, no text - nothing. We assume something tragic has happened (car accident, death in family, etc.). Multiple attempts to reach him to offer support, etc. go unanswered. A few days later a colleague who had added him on LinkedIn saw he had updated his profile to another position with another company.

    We were ghosted.

    Apparently this type behavior is becoming more common, and it has financial repercussions. For example, a supplier takes their time confirming receipt of your purchase order and estimated delivery date, it could have a big ripple effect.

    People seem to think manners are some stuffy relic of the Victorian era, but in reality it’s the glue that holds this shit show together.

    I say 24 hours/one business day is a reasonable expectation for a response, even in the COVID era. If they don’t get back right away and you’ve tried reaching out to them and STILL get crickets, well, that’s the professional equivalent of “he’s just not that into you” and start planning your exit strategy. In most cases you’ll be able to find a suitable replacement.

    Hey, can you keep it a bit shorter? The men are trying to have a meeting here.
    I want to chin this but because I know DDJ IRL I am scared she will kick my balls into my asshole if I do. Yes, I am a pussy.
    Is this not a preferred outcome than her calling the local fuzz? Again.
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  • 1to392831weretaken1to392831weretaken Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,674 Swaye's Wigwam
    In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

    It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

    More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

    Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

    The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

    I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,617
    PurpleThrobber said:

    What's a reasonable expectation for a response on an email/phone call to a vendor or professional? The Throbber has always conducted himself on the 24 hour return phone call or acknowledge email mode. Even if it's only "hey, I'm slammed but I saw your email and will get to it by xxxx".

    Contractor this week, multiple calls. No response. Attorney same thing - multiple emails/voicemail on time sensitive stuff. That's just rude, imo. Radio silence is bullshit.

    When do you take bidness elsewhere for such behavior?







    Agreed. I might go 48 hours but after that, you'd better be in the hospital, and if you're not taking calls or returning e-mails then leave an out-of-office to that effect.

    When I pull the plug depends on how badly I need them. Pretty quickly if they are fungible.
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  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,724 Standard Supporter
    edited February 2021
    creepycoug said:

    PurpleThrobber said:

    What's a reasonable expectation for a response on an email/phone call to a vendor or professional? The Throbber has always conducted himself on the 24 hour return phone call or acknowledge email mode. Even if it's only "hey, I'm slammed but I saw your email and will get to it by xxxx".

    Contractor this week, multiple calls. No response. Attorney same thing - multiple emails/voicemail on time sensitive stuff. That's just rude, imo. Radio silence is bullshit.

    When do you take bidness elsewhere for such behavior?







    Agreed. I might go 48 hours but after that, you'd better be in the hospital, and if you're not taking calls or returning e-mails then leave an out-of-office to that effect.

    When I pull the plug depends on how badly I need them. Pretty quickly if they are fungible.
    In this particular case, I want to get my own guysms in there so it may come back to haunt her.
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,617
    1to392831weretaken said:

    In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

    It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

    More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

    Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

    The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

    I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

    The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

    So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

    And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.
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  • 1to392831weretaken1to392831weretaken Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,674 Swaye's Wigwam
    A fuck-off and a NYBE from DDJ? That's the kind of sacrifice one must make in the pursuit of shitposting gold.
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  • 1to392831weretaken1to392831weretaken Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,674 Swaye's Wigwam
    creepycoug said:

    1to392831weretaken said:

    In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

    It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

    More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

    Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

    The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

    I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

    The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

    So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

    And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.
    I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 23,617
    1to392831weretaken said:

    creepycoug said:

    1to392831weretaken said:

    In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

    It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

    More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

    Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

    The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

    I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

    The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

    So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

    And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.
    I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.
    with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.
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  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,472
    creepycoug said:

    1to392831weretaken said:

    creepycoug said:

    1to392831weretaken said:

    In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

    It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

    More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

    Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

    The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

    I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

    The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

    So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

    And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.
    I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.
    with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.
    I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.
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  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,065
    PurpleThrobber said:

    What's a reasonable expectation for a response on an email/phone call to a vendor or professional? The Throbber has always conducted himself on the 24 hour return phone call or acknowledge email mode. Even if it's only "hey, I'm slammed but I saw your email and will get to it by xxxx".

    Contractor this week, multiple calls. No response. Attorney same thing - multiple emails/voicemail on time sensitive stuff. That's just rude, imo. Radio silence is bullshit.

    When do you take bidness elsewhere for such behavior?







    This past year has been completely insane.

    Like it's totally shocking to me. We can never get anybody with reasonable time.

    We are setting up avalara for all the sales tax and exemption certificate management for all our customers. Just been waiting on them for 2 months. Finally got logins Thursday and knocked out our entire portion in one day.

    I've got too many damn projects going just because I'm constantly waiting on these vendors and I can't just sit around all day so I start new stuff lol
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  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,065
    edited February 2021
    Doog_de_Jour said:

    I’m about to go on a rant here...

    This is more than a business issue. Our whole society has normalized bad manners.

    My company a year ago filled a position (and this isn’t just some low level job either) and DAY ONE the candidate doesn’t show. No call, no email, no text - nothing. We assume something tragic has happened (car accident, death in family, etc.). Multiple attempts to reach him to offer support, etc. go unanswered. A few days later a colleague who had added him on LinkedIn saw he had updated his profile to another position with another company.

    We were ghosted.

    Apparently this type behavior is becoming more common, and it has financial repercussions. For example, a supplier takes their time confirming receipt of your purchase order and estimated delivery date, it could have a big ripple effect.

    People seem to think manners are some stuffy relic of the Victorian era, but in reality it’s the glue that holds this shit show together.

    I say 24 hours/one business day is a reasonable expectation for a response, even in the COVID era. If they don’t get back right away and you’ve tried reaching out to them and STILL get crickets, well, that’s the professional equivalent of “he’s just not that into you” and start planning your exit strategy. In most cases you’ll be able to find a suitable replacement.

    My primary goal of automating most of our shit was because finding like low level office workers is about the worst thing in the world.

    I feel like a bit of a dick because I left a position open for like two weeks even after I hired this guy and he'd been there for a week. But just in case he didn't show up lol
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  • AtomicPissAtomicPiss Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 64,396 Founders Club
    1to392831weretaken said:

    Doog_de_Jour said:

    I’m about to go on a rant here...

    This is more than a business issue. Our whole society has normalized bad manners.

    My company a year ago filled a position (and this isn’t just some low level job either) and DAY ONE the candidate doesn’t show. No call, no email, no text - nothing. We assume something tragic has happened (car accident, death in family, etc.). Multiple attempts to reach him to offer support, etc. go unanswered. A few days later a colleague who had added him on LinkedIn saw he had updated his profile to another position with another company.

    We were ghosted.

    Apparently this type behavior is becoming more common, and it has financial repercussions. For example, a supplier takes their time confirming receipt of your purchase order and estimated delivery date, it could have a big ripple effect.

    People seem to think manners are some stuffy relic of the Victorian era, but in reality it’s the glue that holds this shit show together.

    I say 24 hours/one business day is a reasonable expectation for a response, even in the COVID era. If they don’t get back right away and you’ve tried reaching out to them and STILL get crickets, well, that’s the professional equivalent of “he’s just not that into you” and start planning your exit strategy. In most cases you’ll be able to find a suitable replacement.

    Hey, can you keep it a bit shorter? The men are trying to have a meeting here.
    LOL

    and this is a great thread
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