I think we need to clarify the view: nobody is saying printing money is bad. it's that printing money with no correlating economy to back it up that's bad, at least potentially.
sure, you have some mitigating factors, like Creepycoug's favorite "where else you gonna go" theory. that helps, to the extent you buy it at all ... @godawgst pushed back and cited India and China as alternative destinations.
but the "where else you gonna go" faith has its limits. I think we all agree that eventually the printing machine isn't creating value by itself. it's only a proxy for the economy, and if the economy is shit, then one day you realize you're playing with monopoly money.
I guess the debate is what the real state of the economy is as an empirical matter. There are some indicators that are negative, but sure, many companies, mind included, have done very well during the pandemic. The obvious companies have taken the obvious hits.
I guess we're all just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't say printing money isn't inflationary. Sometimes it's necessary even if it is inflationary, though.
It's pretty tough to tell what the real state of the economy is when things are what they are put there, so it isn't easy to say whether it's smart to print money like we? are. I think it's necessary, but I'd like to see increased unemployment benefits and more directed payments. I don't need these checks, but there's a helluva lot of people that do.
Other than a half million dead people and several industries completely wrecked, the economy looks in ok shape to me to get rolling again.
flea is an optimist. Only because it's less stressful than the alternative.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't say printing money isn't inflationary. Sometimes it's necessary even if it is inflationary, though.
It's pretty tough to tell what the real state of the economy is when things are what they are put there, so it isn't easy to say whether it's smart to print money like we? are. I think it's necessary, but I'd like to see increased unemployment benefits and more directed payments. I don't need these checks, but there's a helluva lot of people that do.
Other than a half million dead people and several industries completely wrecked, the economy looks in ok shape to me to get rolling again.
flea is an optimist. Only because it's less stressful than the alternative.
Thiiiiiiiis.
I'm not going to give a stimulus check back or anything, but I'd be lying if I said I need it. I know a lot of people who really do, though. And even if the government is hellbent on spending trillions to stimulate the economy (as opposed to addressing direct needs), I can think of projects to throw money at that would have a better return for the economy than simply throwing it at people like me.
I did read something interesting lately that I hadn't considered--hell, maybe I read it here--and that is that one of the justifications for the desired relatively high income threshold for stimulus is that qualification for stimulus is based off 2019 returns, therefore people who were paid well in 2019 but who's employer shut its doors or made cuts in 2020 might miss out on much-needed help.
To me, the obvious response to that is, "Isn't that what unemployment is for? Just spend the stimulus money to increase unemployment to 100% over the affected months and make people whole." But I'm just some idiot, so I could be missing something.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't say printing money isn't inflationary. Sometimes it's necessary even if it is inflationary, though.
It's pretty tough to tell what the real state of the economy is when things are what they are put there, so it isn't easy to say whether it's smart to print money like we? are. I think it's necessary, but I'd like to see increased unemployment benefits and more directed payments. I don't need these checks, but there's a helluva lot of people that do.
Other than a half million dead people and several industries completely wrecked, the economy looks in ok shape to me to get rolling again.
flea is an optimist. Only because it's less stressful than the alternative.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
I am, myself, seriously worried about inflation. That's one reason why I think I might just step up home-wise once more while the money is cheap, because the home itself is a hard asset that is actually useful.
Other than that, I don't know where to go and hide.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
I am, myself, seriously worried about inflation. That's one reason why I think I might just step up home-wise once more while the money is cheap, because the home itself is a hard asset that is actually useful.
Other than that, I don't know where to go and hide.
It's a Top 10 Business/Finance book, for sure. I'd actually put it in Top 10 History books, too.
Virtually everything that transpired until after the Atomic Bomb was a direct result of those clowns.
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
What was going on with other nations' currencies at this time? Were other nations printing currency at the same time the Germans were printing Deutschmarks?
Because that matters. That's why no long-term inflation forecast I've seen is all that alarming.
Whose inflation forecast are you looking at that has you all rattled?
I’m saying printing money is bad, very, very bad. We’ve gone in 5 years from laughing at Bernie Sanders for proposing it for various programs to printing 35% of the total money float in one year and following that by planning to print at least that much this year. Not sure what will have to happen to shut that spigot off but it won’t be pretty...there will always be a “need” for just a “little” more to do some pet project going forward. It’s like crack for politicians on both sides.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
What was going on with other nations' currencies at this time? Were other nations printing currency at the same time the Germans were printing Deutschmarks?
Because that matters. That's why no long-term inflation forecast I've seen is all that alarming.
Whose inflation forecast are you looking at that has you all rattled?
Ours. (?)
As I recall from the aforementioned book, it didn't matter. Collateral (no pun intended) damage everywhere.
I also recall once wonderkin John Maynard Keyes proven to be a dipshit through this tim.
Comments
sure, you have some mitigating factors, like Creepycoug's favorite "where else you gonna go" theory. that helps, to the extent you buy it at all ... @godawgst pushed back and cited India and China as alternative destinations.
but the "where else you gonna go" faith has its limits. I think we all agree that eventually the printing machine isn't creating value by itself. it's only a proxy for the economy, and if the economy is shit, then one day you realize you're playing with monopoly money.
I guess the debate is what the real state of the economy is as an empirical matter. There are some indicators that are negative, but sure, many companies, mind included, have done very well during the pandemic. The obvious companies have taken the obvious hits.
I guess we're all just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It's pretty tough to tell what the real state of the economy is when things are what they are put there, so it isn't easy to say whether it's smart to print money like we? are. I think it's necessary, but I'd like to see increased unemployment benefits and more directed payments. I don't need these checks, but there's a helluva lot of people that do.
Other than a half million dead people and several industries completely wrecked, the economy looks in ok shape to me to get rolling again.
flea is an optimist. Only because it's less stressful than the alternative.
I'm not going to give a stimulus check back or anything, but I'd be lying if I said I need it. I know a lot of people who really do, though. And even if the government is hellbent on spending trillions to stimulate the economy (as opposed to addressing direct needs), I can think of projects to throw money at that would have a better return for the economy than simply throwing it at people like me.
I did read something interesting lately that I hadn't considered--hell, maybe I read it here--and that is that one of the justifications for the desired relatively high income threshold for stimulus is that qualification for stimulus is based off 2019 returns, therefore people who were paid well in 2019 but who's employer shut its doors or made cuts in 2020 might miss out on much-needed help.
To me, the obvious response to that is, "Isn't that what unemployment is for? Just spend the stimulus money to increase unemployment to 100% over the affected months and make people whole." But I'm just some idiot, so I could be missing something.
The side effects will take years to be realized, but step back and think of the insanity we currently live in. The economy has been shut down for large parts of folks, I think I heard you have ~10% of the total population of LA literally standing in food lines, and we are on a finance board debating whether we are investing smart enough to beat the 20% return on the S&P500 last year.
Not sure folks realize we are witnessing a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. I think folks thought I was joking when I posted the Wall Street Playboys Tweet on the money supply went up 35% last year and if your net worth didn’t go up that much you fell behind. There is a lot of truth in that statement.
If you aren't SERIOUSLY worried about inflation, you obviously haven't read Lords of Finance | The Bankers Who Broke the World.
(maybe I will add to the book report thread)
Look at these two graphs:
Germany post WWI
M1 money supply - the US today
Quoting your own poast is always special, but allow me to rephrase ....
If you aren't SERIOUSLY worried about inflation, you NEED to read Lords of Finance | The Bankers Who Broke the World.
I am, myself, seriously worried about inflation. That's one reason why I think I might just step up home-wise once more while the money is cheap, because the home itself is a hard asset that is actually useful.
Other than that, I don't know where to go and hide.
Virtually everything that transpired until after the Atomic Bomb was a direct result of those clowns.
Because that matters. That's why no long-term inflation forecast I've seen is all that alarming.
Whose inflation forecast are you looking at that has you all rattled?
Ours. (?)
As I recall from the aforementioned book, it didn't matter. Collateral (no pun intended) damage everywhere.
I also recall once wonderkin John Maynard Keyes proven to be a dipshit through this tim.