Should I Buy a Tesla?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WaLCToxcwComments
-
-
-
I would if they bring back the tax credits
-
No. They are gayer than Christmas.
-
-
Do you:
Hate cars that are really smooth and powerful?
Lack the funds to buy a high end car?
Love the smell of gasoline and think time spent at a gas station is time well spent?
Have a 300 mile commute?
If you answered no to all of those questions, you might just be in the market for a gay Tesla. -
Let me know when then make a mid-size, frame on body SUV that handles like shit on city roads.1to392831weretaken said:Do you:
Hate cars that are really smooth and powerful?
Lack the funds to buy a high end car?
Love the smell of gasoline and think time spent at a gas station is time well spent?
Have a 300 mile commute?
If you answered no to all of those questions, you might just be in the market for a gay Tesla. -
The truly powerful ones cost $60k or more. Not attainable for 95% of Americans. Range anxiety and waiting to recharge are also still big issues unless you never drive other than commuting to work and the grocery store.1to392831weretaken said:Do you:
Hate cars that are really smooth and powerful?
Lack the funds to buy a high end car?
Love the smell of gasoline and think time spent at a gas station is time well spent?
Have a 300 mile commute?
If you answered no to all of those questions, you might just be in the market for a gay Tesla.
Another question to add here:
- Do you want a car with an interior that isn't built from cheap plastic with zero design cues?
The Tesla interiors are pretty chintzy. -
Pretty sure it is higher than thtBleachedAnusDawg said:
The truly powerful ones cost $60k or more. Not attainable for 95% of Americans. Range anxiety and waiting to recharge are also still big issues unless you never drive other than commuting to work and the grocery store.1to392831weretaken said:Do you:
Hate cars that are really smooth and powerful?
Lack the funds to buy a high end car?
Love the smell of gasoline and think time spent at a gas station is time well spent?
Have a 300 mile commute?
If you answered no to all of those questions, you might just be in the market for a gay Tesla.
Another question to add here:
- Do you want a car with an interior that isn't built from cheap plastic with zero design cues?
The Tesla interiors are pretty chintzy.
-
Very few people drive further in a day than the range of even the smallest battery Tesla. If I owned one and it were my only vehicle, I'd have to stop on the road to charge less than a half dozen times per year, and this from somebody with a 70 mile round trip commute and family over the mountains. I would cumulatively spend more time at gas stations over the course of that same year with a gas vehicle.BleachedAnusDawg said:The truly powerful ones cost $60k or more. Not attainable for 95% of Americans. Range anxiety and waiting to recharge are also still big issues unless you never drive other than commuting to work and the grocery store.
Another question to add here:
- Do you want a car with an interior that isn't built from cheap plastic with zero design cues?
The Tesla interiors are pretty chintzy.
I don't own a Tesla nor have I even sat in one, but I have a lot of experience with electrics, and there's no looking back. I have a gas truck because electrics can't tow, but otherwise everything plugs in. The overall experience is waaaaaaay better than what I had before. I would bet that today's young people have way more anxiety over their fucking phone running out of battery than we have about our car leaving us stranded, yet if you were to try selling any of them a phone with a battery that could be charged nearly instantly but only by pulling over at one of the designated charging stations on the side of the road once or twice per week, they'd tell you to fuck off. Plug in, go to bed, it's ready to go when you get up in the morning. Most convenient thing ever. -
In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
-
-
-
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said:
-
Looks like they have you pegged1to392831weretaken said:
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said: -
It's just like Tesla: I think a lot of you would change your minds once you've actually tried it!dnc said:
Looks like they have you pegged1to392831weretaken said:
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said: -
Costs for EV's are still much higher than ICE. Closing the gap, though.1to392831weretaken said:
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/07/11/teslas-shift-to-cobalt-free-batteries-is-its-most-important-move-yet/#7dfcd38246b4
It is estimated that using LFP batteries will allow a 15-20% reduction in manufacturing cost. Taking calculations regarding how much of a car’s cost is batteries into account, this could make EVs a mere 10% more expensive than ICE instead of 30%, which will be easy to regain in cheaper running costs over a year or two of ownership. -
Both of my electrics were purchased after a cold-eyes Excel spreadsheet exercise. I ride bikes for fun, so the number one criteria for my four-wheeled transport is cheeeeeeap. On paper, they were the cheapest to own (very different than cheapest to buy. I have a Volt (which ceased production a month after I purchased because GM sold out of their subsidies and would therefore become noncompetitive due to how stupid the subsidy structure was in the first place) and a Pacifica Hybrid. So both are merely plug-in hybrids, but we rarely put any gas in either, and would never put gas in either if they had Tesla-sized packs (I filled my 8-gallon tank three times last year, partly because my work blocked off the lot with the chargers for a week for restriping). I point this out, though, because these are no Teslas. They're cars that are already nearly on par pricewise with gas equivalents. Sure, Teslas are priced as luxury cars because they're superior or equivalent in many ways to the $60K+ cars they directly compete against, but there are other much more affordable options. This number is about to grow significantly as well, as VW is going all-in with electrification and a few other manufacturers are putting in better than half-assed efforts as well (Toyota bet billions on solid state batteries, BMW slightly fewer billions, and they're not just going to piss that investment away).BleachedAnusDawg said:
Costs for EV's are still much higher than ICE. Closing the gap, though.1to392831weretaken said:
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/07/11/teslas-shift-to-cobalt-free-batteries-is-its-most-important-move-yet/#7dfcd38246b4
It is estimated that using LFP batteries will allow a 15-20% reduction in manufacturing cost. Taking calculations regarding how much of a car’s cost is batteries into account, this could make EVs a mere 10% more expensive than ICE instead of 30%, which will be easy to regain in cheaper running costs over a year or two of ownership.
What automakers are just now starting to do with upcoming model releases is finally not intentionally making their electric offerings look like rolling suppositories, and this is going to help sales a lot.
There's an honest debate to be had about whether the subsidy is fair/ethical/liberal-hippy-Commie, but it does exist for the time being--for every automaker not named GM or Tesla--so this should be taken into account when calculating TCO. Factor in purchase price minus subsidy (which can be a lot higher depending on in what state you live) minus depreciated value after the number of years you plan to own the vehicle and start adding up fuel (fuckall), maintenance (almost zero), consumables (almost zero for brakes), etc., and you'd be surprised what pops out the other end. -
I have also driven a Tesla before. It was fun to drive. I’m not crazy about how they look, but they are really nice.1to392831weretaken said:
It's just like Tesla: I think a lot of you would change your minds once you've actually tried it!dnc said:
Looks like they have you pegged1to392831weretaken said:
I don't buy that battery technology will improve that much in 10 years. It'll probably be better, sure, but not a step change like from lead to lithium. Not in 10 years, at least. For at least 15 years, I've been reading "we're five years away from a battery breakthrough" articles--everything from rechargeable aluminum-air batteries to high density solid state to graphene--but none have been commercialized in the promised time frame. Solid state is coming--this is sure--and it's coming quickly, but it's not so much of a game changer without infrastructure to dump cubic amps of current into a battery at once, which currently barely exists, and I don't see the country completely converted in 10 years.MikeDamone said:In 10 years new gas powered vehicles will be less than 60%. And won't be because SJW are buying inferior vehicles, they will simply be better
ATBSJBS, it really doesn't matter. Outside of specialized use cases like towing, racing (farther than a couple laps), and cross-country riding, electrics are already better than their gas counterparts. What will change in 10 years is that marketing will change, acceptance will grow, and small-dick internet tough guys will be forced to finally admit it.
TL;DR: They're already better for at least 60% of people, what will take 10 years is acceptance and charging infrastructure so, for instance, they're viable for people in apartments or with street parking only.
That's the best advertisement for Tesla I've ever seen! Sign me the fuck up!USMChawk said: -
For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced. -
To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...Tequilla said:For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.
1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.
Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.
2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.
3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way. -
I would say most people that can afford a Tesla aren’t the type to go on multi day road trips in a car.
-
Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.1to392831weretaken said:
To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...Tequilla said:For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.
1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.
Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.
2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.
3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.
Sincerely,
Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8. -
This, add the time value of money and the fact that people swap cars on average less than 7 years and you still haven't hit the tipping point for electrics. It's coming, but it's been coming for my entire life so I won't hold my breath.BleachedAnusDawg said:
Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.1to392831weretaken said:
To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...Tequilla said:For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.
1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.
Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.
2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.
3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.
Sincerely,
Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8. -
Its right behind soccer becoming America's favorite sportUW_Doog_Bot said:
This, add the time value of money and the fact that people swap cars on average less than 7 years and you still haven't hit the tipping point for electrics. It's coming, but it's been coming for my entire life so I won't hold my breath.BleachedAnusDawg said:
Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.1to392831weretaken said:
To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...Tequilla said:For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.
1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.
Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.
2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.
3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.
Sincerely,
Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8. -
1) I actually like driving long distances for a few reasons. First, time on the road is time that I'm able to unplug from being tethered to work and technology. It's something I appreciate. Just this year I've driven to Reno and back and Texas and will be making my way back soon. Typically for golf trips it's not uncommon that I'll travel either 6-8 hours at a time or 6-8 hours round trip. Your point is absolutely right when it comes to time/cost for driving vs flying. I typically make my decisions based on number of people traveling, cost of a car, and length of trip. No question for a weekend trip I'm flying. If I'm going to be somewhere 1-2 weeks then driving becomes more likely. As for the time to recharge, when driving long distances that hour for lunch isn't huge on my agenda as I'm much more focused on getting to where I need to for the end of the day/trip.1to392831weretaken said:
To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...Tequilla said:For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...
There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):
1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)
2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY
3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars
As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.
I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.
1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.
Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.
2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.
3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
2) I don't know enough about the particulars to know what is or isn't particularly doable. But I do agree that addressing charging times through the battery is probably far more economical than charging stations everywhere. Fast charges and the ability to do so portably will be very important.
3) I think we're saying potato/potato in our comments ... costs and value in my mind are essentially the same.
-
Agreed. I just don't like them. It's not a political stance or anything. I just wouldn't want one even if they were cheap.YellowSnow said:No. They are gayer than Christmas.
-
Moving to electric would be devastating to the Oregon job market and economy.
https://youtu.be/l2q_-xN2N54
