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Should I Buy a Tesla?

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  • 1to392831weretaken1to392831weretaken Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,280
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    edited August 2020
    Tequilla said:

    For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...

    There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):

    1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)

    2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY

    3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars

    As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.

    I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.

    To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...

    1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.

    Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.

    2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.

    3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 30,123
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes Combo Breaker
    Swaye's Wigwam
    I would say most people that can afford a Tesla aren’t the type to go on multi day road trips in a car.
  • BleachedAnusDawgBleachedAnusDawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,397
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    Founders Club

    Tequilla said:

    For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...

    There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):

    1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)

    2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY

    3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars

    As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.

    I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.

    To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...

    1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.

    Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.

    2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.

    3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
    Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.

    Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.

    Sincerely,

    Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8.
  • UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 14,104
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Swaye's Wigwam

    Tequilla said:

    For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...

    There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):

    1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)

    2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY

    3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars

    As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.

    I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.

    To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...

    1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.

    Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.

    2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.

    3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
    Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.

    Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.

    Sincerely,

    Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8.
    This, add the time value of money and the fact that people swap cars on average less than 7 years and you still haven't hit the tipping point for electrics. It's coming, but it's been coming for my entire life so I won't hold my breath.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 100,729
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    Swaye's Wigwam

    Tequilla said:

    For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...

    There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):

    1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)

    2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY

    3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars

    As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.

    I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.

    To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...

    1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.

    Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.

    2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.

    3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
    Yes, and total cost of ownership still takes 10+ years to pencil with comparable ICE cars.

    Eventually, I will buy an electric car for the wife/family driver. Will never own one as my personal fun car, though. Don't care if they're faster. Modern ICE performance cars are already insanely fast to the point that the numbers are almost meaningless. ICE cars provide a connection that an electric car can't.

    Sincerely,

    Faggy car guy who likes the smell of gasoline, the satisfaction of modifying engines, suspension, and brakes, and the sound of a badass V8.
    This, add the time value of money and the fact that people swap cars on average less than 7 years and you still haven't hit the tipping point for electrics. It's coming, but it's been coming for my entire life so I won't hold my breath.
    Its right behind soccer becoming America's favorite sport
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,800
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes 5 Fuck Offs

    Tequilla said:

    For anybody that likes driving long distances the technology isn't there yet ...

    There are a few things that I feel like we need on the electric car side of things (some said above):

    1) Range has to increase to at least be at a spot where you can drive minimum 8-10 hours before charging (think typical day drive before stopping at a hotel, etc)

    2) Charging stations either need to be more prevalent/portable to be able to be used while traveling AND/OR the time to charge has to be sped up SIGNIFICANTLY

    3) Costs have to drop to the point that they are largely indifferent between existing gas powered cars

    As is right now, electric cars to me really only are realistic for families who use the electric car for in town driving. It's hard for me to view the company as anything more than selling a niche product to a niche customer base at least in the vehicle standpoint.

    I'm intrigued at what Tesla has to offer outside of the cars as I think that's the really hidden power for them going forward as @Baseman has mentioned ... but at it's current price point it's massively overpriced.

    To respond to your first sentence, who likes driving long distances? Are there people who just hate their time that much? With rare exception, there's a distance over which time spent behind the wheel plus fuel is inferior to just getting on a plane and flying. Moving on, though...

    1.) Eight to ten hours!? Are you an astronaut that pees in a diaper while driving so you're not late to killing your ex-boyfriend!? There is one class of people who drive eight to ten hours without stopping long enough to recharge on a level 3 charger and they're called truckers. Tesla's got a truck/charging infrastructure for them, too.

    Serious question: How many times per year do you drive more than 300 miles in a day? Could you rent a car for those few trips and be cash ahead in annual fuel/travel expense? Or would the hour long lunch break to charge on those few trips not equal the cumulative time spent at the gas station the rest of the year? There are rare people who would be super inconvenienced by the limitations of electrics, but it's really rare.

    2.) Yes. In fact, I'd say this is more important than improving the range. Short of miracle technology, increased range also increases weight and therefore decreases efficiency. The ability to recharge in a shorter amount of time and improved charging infrastructure makes short range on rare long trips a moot point. It would seem like fast charging is a focus for battery development, as this is the promise of the upcoming solid state batteries. Without a liquid electrolyte, charging can happen much faster without damaging the cells. Now we just need insanely high amperage charging infrastructure to take advantage.

    3.) Sort of agree. Value has to match. If your experience is better, it makes sense to pay more. I would also continue to urge comparing costs in terms of total cost of ownership instead of initial purchase price. Consumers are stupid, so that's a tough sell, but for most people electrics are already cheaper. Things are going to continue to trend that way.
    1) I actually like driving long distances for a few reasons. First, time on the road is time that I'm able to unplug from being tethered to work and technology. It's something I appreciate. Just this year I've driven to Reno and back and Texas and will be making my way back soon. Typically for golf trips it's not uncommon that I'll travel either 6-8 hours at a time or 6-8 hours round trip. Your point is absolutely right when it comes to time/cost for driving vs flying. I typically make my decisions based on number of people traveling, cost of a car, and length of trip. No question for a weekend trip I'm flying. If I'm going to be somewhere 1-2 weeks then driving becomes more likely. As for the time to recharge, when driving long distances that hour for lunch isn't huge on my agenda as I'm much more focused on getting to where I need to for the end of the day/trip.

    2) I don't know enough about the particulars to know what is or isn't particularly doable. But I do agree that addressing charging times through the battery is probably far more economical than charging stations everywhere. Fast charges and the ability to do so portably will be very important.

    3) I think we're saying potato/potato in our comments ... costs and value in my mind are essentially the same.

  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    No. They are gayer than Christmas.

    Agreed. I just don't like them. It's not a political stance or anything. I just wouldn't want one even if they were cheap.
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