I would not die on the hill of Confederate statues at this point. I thought creep laid it out well. There is an argument in favor that isn't racist but perception becomes reality
I was surprised Trump came out strong on not renaming bases. Not sure that's a winner either
Agree with all of that. However, I just can't quite shake the feeling that book burning is warming up in the bullpen.
I would not die on the hill of Confederate statues at this point. I thought creep laid it out well. There is an argument in favor that isn't racist but perception becomes reality
I was surprised Trump came out strong on not renaming bases. Not sure that's a winner either
Agree with all of that. However, I just can't quite shake the feeling that book burning is warming up in the bullpen.
many of the statues of confederate heroes was approved in the late 1800's - years after the un-civil war.The nation was very divided still and it was an attempt to appease the southern bloc of states.
Some were erected just to piss OFF the powers in Washington DC.
I like the second reason better than the first
no links - look it up yourself yes I had to edit this
I'm generally not one for statute removal, but ...
the confederate memorials are at least an intellectually interesting discussion, as long as you're not having it with a retard.
TJ and George are foundational to the Union, so anyone can fuck off with that idea.
And, Robert E. Lee, in particular, was an amazing man in life and worthy of being remembered and, to an extent, revered.
With that said, I am loosely on the side of the argument that the secessionists were enemies of the Union and thus enemies of the country. They were dispatched only after the spilling of much American blood. As they say, Hitler is important history, too, but we don't erect statues of him, here or elsewhere. So, the whole, "learning" angle, is, to me, disingenuous. Similarly with the confederate flag. When it flies over a state capital building in the South, I find it somewhat offensive myself, and I sure as shit don't blame a black person for finding it deeply offensive. This is different than the rights of people to display them to their heart's desire.
Again, the gist of it, for me, that has some persuasive power, is that these are clear symbols of our former enemy. It makes only slightly more sense (because it was a civil war and they were before and after the war our countrymen) to erect monuments in their honor as it does to so for Musolini.
Just my $0.02.
Never pegged you as a Big Union guy. I agree with most of what you say. But you are jumping the shark a bit with the whole symbol of my enemy Schtick. The ‘Fed flag needed to not fly over state houses and City Halls. But it’s not the same as the Nazi flag. And that’s what it is being compared to now.
“For Snyder, participating in the racial justice movement sweeping across Oregon and the rest of the U.S. has been worth the risk and subsequent illness.” Man who protested every day in Portland for BLM tests positive for COVID-19.
I would not die on the hill of Confederate statues at this point. I thought creep laid it out well. There is an argument in favor that isn't racist but perception becomes reality
I was surprised Trump came out strong on not renaming bases. Not sure that's a winner either
Agree with all of that. However, I just can't quite shake the feeling that book burning is warming up in the bullpen.
This is book burning.
I always ask the question: Where does it end?
Do we go back and burn and destroy all artwork of every slave owner? How many artists of famous works owned slaves. Do we dig up Napoleon's tomb and place it in an unmarked grave? Blow the face off of Mt Rushmore, Stone Mountain? We already have the left teaching their version of history to our children, now they want to act as if history never happened.
How many years of the erasure of history will it take for everyone to be happy? Do we call out one of the mightiest and most brutal slave cultures in history (The Mayans) and destroy all ancient artifacts because we find that offensive now?
Here is the problem: If we erase everything that is offensive, for whatever reason 1000's of individual groups think offensive is, we won't learn from history. We will be doomed to repeat it. People owned slaves for centuries. It was the ignorance of early society. To remove those who took one step toward a free society for all individuals because they owned some slaves is ridiculous. There is no period in the history of our entire world where civilizations and individuals didn't practice something we all find deplorable today. Get over it, learn from it. Use it as a reminder. We can appreciate the art without owning the message.
Burning books, erasing names of founding fathers and destroying the artwork of individuals is shit they have done periodically for centuries. Its not right now just as it wasn't then and here we are repeating the same shit over and over again. The Taliban agrees with the rioters. Different groups, same end result.
I'm generally not one for statute removal, but ...
the confederate memorials are at least an intellectually interesting discussion, as long as you're not having it with a retard.
TJ and George are foundational to the Union, so anyone can fuck off with that idea.
And, Robert E. Lee, in particular, was an amazing man in life and worthy of being remembered and, to an extent, revered.
With that said, I am loosely on the side of the argument that the secessionists were enemies of the Union and thus enemies of the country. They were dispatched only after the spilling of much American blood. As they say, Hitler is important history, too, but we don't erect statues of him, here or elsewhere. So, the whole, "learning" angle, is, to me, disingenuous. Similarly with the confederate flag. When it flies over a state capital building in the South, I find it somewhat offensive myself, and I sure as shit don't blame a black person for finding it deeply offensive. This is different than the rights of people to display them to their heart's desire.
Again, the gist of it, for me, that has some persuasive power, is that these are clear symbols of our former enemy. It makes only slightly more sense (because it was a civil war and they were before and after the war our countrymen) to erect monuments in their honor as it does to so for Musolini.
Just my $0.02.
Never pegged you as a Big Union guy. I agree with most of what you say. But you are jumping the shark a bit with the whole symbol of my enemy Schtick. The ‘Fed flag needed to not fly over state houses and City Halls. But it’s not the same as the Nazi flag. And that’s what it is being compared to now.
Hey, to the victor go the spoils. The Sowf is the "they" in this story. Lee himself did not want a lot of fuss or fan fare about the confederacy after the war. There is an historical element, sure. But if I'm black, those symbols probably mean something different to me. I can't argue that point because it makes sense.
Agreed; not the same as the Nazi flag, though I don't have a tight and clever argument for why. Those traitorous vermin were decently treated. They were decently fed and then they were decently shot.
I would not die on the hill of Confederate statues at this point. I thought creep laid it out well. There is an argument in favor that isn't racist but perception becomes reality
I was surprised Trump came out strong on not renaming bases. Not sure that's a winner either
Agree with all of that. However, I just can't quite shake the feeling that book burning is warming up in the bullpen.
Your attitude is noticed you know! Oh yes, it is noticed.
I would not die on the hill of Confederate statues at this point. I thought creep laid it out well. There is an argument in favor that isn't racist but perception becomes reality
I was surprised Trump came out strong on not renaming bases. Not sure that's a winner either
Agree with all of that. However, I just can't quite shake the feeling that book burning is warming up in the bullpen.
Your attitude is noticed you know! Oh yes, it is noticed.
Comments
Some were erected just to piss OFF the powers in Washington DC.
I like the second reason better than the first
no links - look it up yourself
yes I had to edit this
“For Snyder, participating in the racial justice movement sweeping across Oregon and the rest of the U.S. has been worth the risk and subsequent illness.”
Man who protested every day in Portland for BLM tests positive for COVID-19.
I always ask the question: Where does it end?
Do we go back and burn and destroy all artwork of every slave owner? How many artists of famous works owned slaves. Do we dig up Napoleon's tomb and place it in an unmarked grave? Blow the face off of Mt Rushmore, Stone Mountain? We already have the left teaching their version of history to our children, now they want to act as if history never happened.
How many years of the erasure of history will it take for everyone to be happy? Do we call out one of the mightiest and most brutal slave cultures in history (The Mayans) and destroy all ancient artifacts because we find that offensive now?
Here is the problem: If we erase everything that is offensive, for whatever reason 1000's of individual groups think offensive is, we won't learn from history. We will be doomed to repeat it. People owned slaves for centuries. It was the ignorance of early society. To remove those who took one step toward a free society for all individuals because they owned some slaves is ridiculous. There is no period in the history of our entire world where civilizations and individuals didn't practice something we all find deplorable today. Get over it, learn from it. Use it as a reminder. We can appreciate the art without owning the message.
Burning books, erasing names of founding fathers and destroying the artwork of individuals is shit they have done periodically for centuries. Its not right now just as it wasn't then and here we are repeating the same shit over and over again. The Taliban agrees with the rioters. Different groups, same end result.
Agreed; not the same as the Nazi flag, though I don't have a tight and clever argument for why. Those traitorous vermin were decently treated. They were decently fed and then they were decently shot.