Swaye, I edited and my post disappeared, so I'll try to restate it. This is regarding your post about "red flags" and background checks.
It seems to me that every person here agrees that if he is unarmed, even for a period of days or weeks, that this very, very unlikely to ever matter. If we are arming ourselves for extremely unlikely, extraordinary events, it seems reasonable to me that we can be very cautions and deliberate in making decisions about whether an individual should be armed and can even err on the side of caution.
Bc the government can be trusted to do that? It's not like they would ever mass incarcerate a minority population, or allow a group to amass weapons to intimidate another group who they denied weapons to.
Hold on, there's someone from the black panthers here telling me otherwise...
Well at some point you have to decide whether your distrust of government is so profound that you don't want background checks at all then. "Governments are instituted among men" to secure our rights, I'm told. Governments sometimes fail to do this. We have free press though.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I wouldn't presently trust the Fifth Estate to be of any help in defense of violation of gun-related civil liberties.
Absolutely nothing prevents an advocate of gun rights from working in the Press. It’s not a monolith; it’s a bunch of private organizations.
In principle, of course. But would you honestly expect the LA Times to take up the cause of some guy's guns being illegally seized?
It doesn’t take every press organization to shine a light on a subject. It can take as few as one.
You're most optimistic than I am.
I think conservatives tend to play the victim of “the press”. Even the term MSM implies that somehow there is a bar to conservative voices in reporting news. Obviously that’s not true.
Yeah, you're missing the point.
I think your point is that an “established” outlet won’t be interested. But that is my point too. There’s less of a monopoly on news distribution in some ill defined “establishment” than there’s ever been in history. And speaking of getting it reported, isn’t talk radio still a thing? Conservatives own talk radio.
And regarding background checks, my experience as a buyer has been fine. It's been far too long since I've bought a long gun but it was easy. I bought a pistol for my wife a while back, and it was simple with my CPL.
The process should be easy for responsible, knowledgeable gun owners. There's got to be a way for those owners to have easy access. At the same time, people who don't have training or respect for guns, have a few more loopholes before they can exercise their rights. The thinking there is: very very few of these Mass shootings are by gun owners with the proper training. It's usually fucked up people who decide to buy a few guns with little to no barriers.
I wish the NRA would step in to fix it.
The issue is, and I am not trying to make this a shit throwing thing because I have been amazed at how level headed this has been so far, is that the NRA feels attacked right now. They see themselves as the last bulwark between freedom and lunatics who hate THEM. Rightly or wrongly.
The NRA could fix this tomorrow. If they called every member of the GOP and said look, we are now for closing all background check loopholes it would be done in a day. The issue is, to me, that some Dems have so vilified the NRA (and its members) that the NRA brass would now refuse to piss on those Dems if they were on fire. I think, perhaps wrongly, that if some of the DNC toned down the rhetoric and actually tried true engagement with the NRA to work toward incremental solutions, something might get done. But in the current climate where Bloomberg and others trash them and their membership every single day, and the NRA gives it right back to them, there is zero chance of that happening.
As others have mentioned, I sometimes wonder if the gun debate is about making real changes, or just a campaign issue to keep everyone pissed off, fired up, and donating (on both sides).
I'm more cynical about the NRA than you are. While Democrats are shitty and not making the problem better, it's not their fault that the NRA isn't doing anything to help the problems, the NRA is accountable for their actions. The NRA is there to promote gun manufacturers. That's not where they started, but that's where they have been the last 20 years.
And regarding background checks, my experience as a buyer has been fine. It's been far too long since I've bought a long gun but it was easy. I bought a pistol for my wife a while back, and it was simple with my CPL.
The process should be easy for responsible, knowledgeable gun owners. There's got to be a way for those owners to have easy access. At the same time, people who don't have training or respect for guns, have a few more loopholes before they can exercise their rights. The thinking there is: very very few of these Mass shootings are by gun owners with the proper training. It's usually fucked up people who decide to buy a few guns with little to no barriers.
I wish the NRA would step in to fix it.
The issue is, and I am not trying to make this a shit throwing thing because I have been amazed at how level headed this has been so far, is that the NRA feels attacked right now. They see themselves as the last bulwark between freedom and lunatics who hate THEM. Rightly or wrongly.
The NRA could fix this tomorrow. If they called every member of the GOP and said look, we are now for closing all background check loopholes it would be done in a day. The issue is, to me, that some Dems have so vilified the NRA (and its members) that the NRA brass would now refuse to piss on those Dems if they were on fire. I think, perhaps wrongly, that if some of the DNC toned down the rhetoric and actually tried true engagement with the NRA to work toward incremental solutions, something might get done. But in the current climate where Bloomberg and others trash them and their membership every single day, and the NRA gives it right back to them, there is zero chance of that happening.
As others have mentioned, I sometimes wonder if the gun debate is about making real changes, or just a campaign issue to keep everyone pissed off, fired up, and donating (on both sides).
I'm more cynical about the NRA than you are. While Democrats are shitty and not making the problem better, it's not their fault that the NRA isn't doing anything to help the problems, the NRA is accountable for their actions. The NRA is there to promote gun manufacturers. That's not where they started, but that's where they have been the last 20 years.
I disagree. It's perspective. I would say the Democrats who constantly demonize them and press for more gun control are responsible for their actions. This is absolutely a two way street. The Brady Bill started it in earnest, and the Federal Assault Weapon ban institutionalized it. That is when the DNC en masse went against the NRA, and the NRA did the same to them. It has been a hate hate relationship ever since, and neither side has any incentive to close the gap.
But laying all this at the NRAs feet is BS. They are certainly a party to it, but the DNC is an equal partner in the acrimony.
I do agree, as a Life NRA member and guy who got my first real professional safety training from them in the early 80's as a kid, that the NRA has strayed from their core mission the last couple of decades. That change also coincided with the AWB I might add. The NRA saw safety in money, and cozied up to the gun manufacturers as a way to increase their power. I am very much nonplussed that half the shit I receive from the NRA now is offers to buy insurance or some other bullshit. That is not their mission - it is gun safety and the last 30 years protection of the 2nd Amendment. But, they are still the best game in town to protect my rights, even if they aren't what they once were.
Yes. They’re accurate. It’s also accurate to say that you, me and Tom Brady have 6 Super Bowl wins between us.
That's some super Kunt logic you have working there O'Keefed. We are told that most all of these mass shootings are carried out by whites. Why does it make your snatch so sore to have facts that refute that claim?
Does it challenge your narrative O'Keefed?
Yeah, when some fucker kills his whole family or a drug deal goes South, that’s exactly like a Build the Wall white dude slaughtering Hispanic shoppers in a Wal-Mart because of Replacement Theory.
It's funny that these are both the same when discussing "common sense" gun laws but different now.
If you’re saying more than common sense gun laws are required to combat terrorism, I agree. Domestic terrorism seems to be a very white phenomenon recently.
Conflate and dissemble all you'd like, does anyone think you actually care about anyone beyond your immediate ideological motives?
I'd respect you more if you were less disingenuous. At least APAG and Cdawg just come out and say what they really think.
I think guns should be difficult to obtain and retain. Some guns should simply be illegal per se. I think penalties for misuse or illegal possession be stiff. But I’m not for banning them.
Other than repeating above exactly what I said days ago, I never say what I really want.
Which classes of guns would you ban, and why?
I'd be talking to people like you, who know something about guns, about legitimate reasons why anyone would ever want own particular types of weapons. It's not immediately obvious to me why someone should have an AK-47, for example. I realize Sled wants to over throw the Deep State, but I want to talk about reality.
So, I am not a right wing nutjob that hopes or thinks the populace will go to war with the federal government - at the same time, in some future world that I cannot even fathom right now, it could be required. And I'd like my great great great grandkids to be able to exercise their inalienable right to existence free from tyranny by fighting for that freedom with something a little more favorable than a .22 caliber pistol. So while I do not believe in my lifetime we will need to rise up and exert any force on this government, I do believe in protecting the rights of future generations to do just that in some future totalitarian world I cannot even fathom right now. We don't own these rights. We are caretakers of them for future generations because we can't know what that future will look like. And it bothers me when people are so happy to give them away for some personal safety in the present. That is why I think we should be able to keep semi-automatic rifles with large capacity magazines. Asked and answered.
We're in that future totalitarian world right now, or at least in the initial stages of it. It always begins without notice, the frog is already in the water, with the heat cranked up to 10, but it's a big pot, so it'll take time for the frog to boil and croak.
'Hate Speech Laws' to overturn the right to speak freely. 'Red Flag' Gun Laws to make it easy for the state to confiscate guns, first from the 'mentally ill' but gradually more classes of people will be added to that list until eventually everyone and their guns will be a state target. 5g weaponry and surveillance installed on every block. The social credit score system is coming.
The NSA listens in on everything you say and do. The CIA engages in clandestine experiments on US citizens and attempted coups of duly elected presidents. The IRS engages in massive theft and political intrigue. They are all criminal organizations that peddle tyranny.
Unfortunately the population is too ill-informed, brainwashed and lethargic to do anything about it. They would get run over like a car, then ask the driver to please back up and run them over again. The greatest generation is gone and the backthepack generation have more in common with nazis and communists than they do with blue-blooded OG patriots like us.
Yes. They’re accurate. It’s also accurate to say that you, me and Tom Brady have 6 Super Bowl wins between us.
That's some super Kunt logic you have working there O'Keefed. We are told that most all of these mass shootings are carried out by whites. Why does it make your snatch so sore to have facts that refute that claim?
Does it challenge your narrative O'Keefed?
Yeah, when some fucker kills his whole family or a drug deal goes South, that’s exactly like a Build the Wall white dude slaughtering Hispanic shoppers in a Wal-Mart because of Replacement Theory.
It's funny that these are both the same when discussing "common sense" gun laws but different now.
If you’re saying more than common sense gun laws are required to combat terrorism, I agree. Domestic terrorism seems to be a very white phenomenon recently.
Conflate and dissemble all you'd like, does anyone think you actually care about anyone beyond your immediate ideological motives?
I'd respect you more if you were less disingenuous. At least APAG and Cdawg just come out and say what they really think.
I think guns should be difficult to obtain and retain. Some guns should simply be illegal per se. I think penalties for misuse or illegal possession be stiff. But I’m not for banning them.
Other than repeating above exactly what I said days ago, I never say what I really want.
Which classes of guns would you ban, and why?
I'd be talking to people like you, who know something about guns, about legitimate reasons why anyone would ever want own particular types of weapons. It's not immediately obvious to me why someone should have an AK-47, for example. I realize Sled wants to over throw the Deep State, but I want to talk about reality.
So, I am not a right wing nutjob that hopes or thinks the populace will go to war with the federal government - at the same time, in some future world that I cannot even fathom right now, it could be required. And I'd like my great great great grandkids to be able to exercise their inalienable right to existence free from tyranny by fighting for that freedom with something a little more favorable than a .22 caliber pistol. So while I do not believe in my lifetime we will need to rise up and exert any force on this government, I do believe in protecting the rights of future generations to do just that in some future totalitarian world I cannot even fathom right now. We don't own these rights. We are caretakers of them for future generations because we can't know what that future will look like. And it bothers me when people are so happy to give them away for some personal safety in the present. That is why I think we should be able to keep semi-automatic rifles with large capacity magazines. Asked and answered.
We're in that future totalitarian world right now, or at least in the initial stages of it. It always begins without notice, the frog is already in the water, with the heat cranked up to 10, but it's a big pot, so it'll take time for the frog to boil and croak.
'Hate Speech Laws' to overturn the right to speak freely. 'Red Flag' Gun Laws to make it easy for the state to confiscate guns, first from the 'mentally ill' but gradually more classes of people will be added to that list until it eventually everyone and their guns will be a state target. 5g weaponry and surveillance installed on every block. The social credit score system is coming.
The NSA listens in on everything you say and do. The CIA engages in clandestine experiments on US citizens and attempted coups of duly elected presidents. The IRS engages in massive theft and political intrigue. They are all criminal organizations that peddle tyranny.
Unfortunately the population is too ill-informed, brainwashed and lethargic to do anything about it. They would get run over like a car, then ask the driver to please back up and run them over again. The greatest generation is gone and the backthepack generation have more in common with nazis and communists than they do with blue-blooded OG patriots like us.
Orwell would be so proud.
Thanks for the civil and rational conversation guys. OBK is here to remind us that all good things must end.
I've seen some bad posts. This has to be the worst I've ever seen. Any other intentionally skewed and misleading stats you'd like to present to the rest of the class? Shooting multiple people in a gang related drive by or something of that nature is not to be categorized in the same category as indiscriminate or racially motivated mass shootings with the intent to kill as many people as possible. Gang bangers shooting at multiple other gang bangers is not to be put in the same category as somebody walking into a Walmart with an assault rifle and gunning down 20 people. They are two completely different forms of gun violence. One is gang or drug related and the body count isn't nearly as large on average per shooting and the other is indiscriminate or racially motivated with a much larger average body count.
When it comes to indiscriminate mass shootings or racially motivated mass shootings, that's almost exclusively a young white male thing and/or a right-wing extremist thing. If black people or Arabic Islamic extremists were going into malls, movie theaters, or schools and shooting up a bunch of white people in this country, there would be mass hysteria from the right-wing. But because the shooters are almost always white guys you never hear a peep out of them besides condolences for the families. No proactive attempts at legislation to prevent more mass shootings from happening. They'd rather cash their checks from the NRA and do nothing. Corrupt bastards.
I've seen some bad posts. This has to be the worst I've ever seen. Any other intentionally skewed and misleading stats you'd like to present to the rest of the class? Shooting multiple people in a gang related drive by or something of that nature is not to be categorized in the same category as indiscriminate or racially motivated mass shootings with the intent to kill as many people as possible. Gang bangers shooting at multiple other gang bangers is not to be put in the same category as somebody walking into a Walmart with an assault rifle and gunning down 20 people. They are two completely different forms of gun violence. One is gang or drug related and the body count isn't nearly as large on average per shooting and the other is indiscriminate or racially motivated with a much larger average body count.
When it comes to indiscriminate mass shootings or racially motivated mass shootings, that's almost exclusively a young white male thing and/or a right-wing extremist thing. If black people or Arabic Islamic extremists were going into malls, movie theaters, or schools and shooting up a bunch of white people in this country, there would be mass hysteria from the right-wing. But because the shooters are almost always white guys you never hear a peep out of them besides condolences for the families. No proactive attempts at legislation to prevent more mass shootings from happening. They'd rather cash their checks from the NRA and do nothing. Corrupt bastards.
And regarding background checks, my experience as a buyer has been fine. It's been far too long since I've bought a long gun but it was easy. I bought a pistol for my wife a while back, and it was simple with my CPL.
The process should be easy for responsible, knowledgeable gun owners. There's got to be a way for those owners to have easy access. At the same time, people who don't have training or respect for guns, have a few more loopholes before they can exercise their rights. The thinking there is: very very few of these Mass shootings are by gun owners with the proper training. It's usually fucked up people who decide to buy a few guns with little to no barriers.
I wish the NRA would step in to fix it.
The issue is, and I am not trying to make this a shit throwing thing because I have been amazed at how level headed this has been so far, is that the NRA feels attacked right now. They see themselves as the last bulwark between freedom and lunatics who hate THEM. Rightly or wrongly.
The NRA could fix this tomorrow. If they called every member of the GOP and said look, we are now for closing all background check loopholes it would be done in a day. The issue is, to me, that some Dems have so vilified the NRA (and its members) that the NRA brass would now refuse to piss on those Dems if they were on fire. I think, perhaps wrongly, that if some of the DNC toned down the rhetoric and actually tried true engagement with the NRA to work toward incremental solutions, something might get done. But in the current climate where Bloomberg and others trash them and their membership every single day, and the NRA gives it right back to them, there is zero chance of that happening.
As others have mentioned, I sometimes wonder if the gun debate is about making real changes, or just a campaign issue to keep everyone pissed off, fired up, and donating (on both sides).
I'm more cynical about the NRA than you are. While Democrats are shitty and not making the problem better, it's not their fault that the NRA isn't doing anything to help the problems, the NRA is accountable for their actions. The NRA is there to promote gun manufacturers. That's not where they started, but that's where they have been the last 20 years.
I disagree. It's perspective. I would say the Democrats who constantly demonize them and press for more gun control are responsible for their actions. This is absolutely a two way street. The Brady Bill started it in earnest, and the Federal Assault Weapon ban institutionalized it. That is when the DNC en masse went against the NRA, and the NRA did the same to them. It has been a hate hate relationship ever since, and neither side has any incentive to close the gap.
But laying all this at the NRAs feet is BS. They are certainly a party to it, but the DNC is an equal partner in the acrimony.
I do agree, as a Life NRA member and guy who got my first real professional safety training from them in the early 80's as a kid, that the NRA has strayed from their core mission the last couple of decades. That change also coincided with the AWB I might add. The NRA saw safety in money, and cozied up to the gun manufacturers as a way to increase their power. I am very much nonplussed that half the shit I receive from the NRA now is offers to buy insurance or some other bullshit. That is not their mission - it is gun safety and the last 30 years protection of the 2nd Amendment. But, they are still the best game in town to protect my rights, even if they aren't what they once were.
Democrats for sure are responsible for their actions. And I hate it when they use tragedy to push their agenda. My biggest issue is really neither side is doing anything about it. And it should come from the NRA, as you said, they used to be a safety organization. Democrats have good intentions but are very bad at messaging (I'm taking the lunatic fringe "confiscate guns" folks out of this discussion). And the NRA just wants to add more guns to the mix. Neither is productive.
My true fear is that this continues as is for a while, with no one doing anything. Then it breeds something so tragic that people rights to own guns are truly taken away. Whereas the NRA and Democrats could step in now, find common ground, and get something passed before it's too late.
And regarding background checks, my experience as a buyer has been fine. It's been far too long since I've bought a long gun but it was easy. I bought a pistol for my wife a while back, and it was simple with my CPL.
The process should be easy for responsible, knowledgeable gun owners. There's got to be a way for those owners to have easy access. At the same time, people who don't have training or respect for guns, have a few more loopholes before they can exercise their rights. The thinking there is: very very few of these Mass shootings are by gun owners with the proper training. It's usually fucked up people who decide to buy a few guns with little to no barriers.
I wish the NRA would step in to fix it.
The issue is, and I am not trying to make this a shit throwing thing because I have been amazed at how level headed this has been so far, is that the NRA feels attacked right now. They see themselves as the last bulwark between freedom and lunatics who hate THEM. Rightly or wrongly.
The NRA could fix this tomorrow. If they called every member of the GOP and said look, we are now for closing all background check loopholes it would be done in a day. The issue is, to me, that some Dems have so vilified the NRA (and its members) that the NRA brass would now refuse to piss on those Dems if they were on fire. I think, perhaps wrongly, that if some of the DNC toned down the rhetoric and actually tried true engagement with the NRA to work toward incremental solutions, something might get done. But in the current climate where Bloomberg and others trash them and their membership every single day, and the NRA gives it right back to them, there is zero chance of that happening.
As others have mentioned, I sometimes wonder if the gun debate is about making real changes, or just a campaign issue to keep everyone pissed off, fired up, and donating (on both sides).
I'm more cynical about the NRA than you are. While Democrats are shitty and not making the problem better, it's not their fault that the NRA isn't doing anything to help the problems, the NRA is accountable for their actions. The NRA is there to promote gun manufacturers. That's not where they started, but that's where they have been the last 20 years.
I disagree. It's perspective. I would say the Democrats who constantly demonize them and press for more gun control are responsible for their actions. This is absolutely a two way street. The Brady Bill started it in earnest, and the Federal Assault Weapon ban institutionalized it. That is when the DNC en masse went against the NRA, and the NRA did the same to them. It has been a hate hate relationship ever since, and neither side has any incentive to close the gap.
But laying all this at the NRAs feet is BS. They are certainly a party to it, but the DNC is an equal partner in the acrimony.
I do agree, as a Life NRA member and guy who got my first real professional safety training from them in the early 80's as a kid, that the NRA has strayed from their core mission the last couple of decades. That change also coincided with the AWB I might add. The NRA saw safety in money, and cozied up to the gun manufacturers as a way to increase their power. I am very much nonplussed that half the shit I receive from the NRA now is offers to buy insurance or some other bullshit. That is not their mission - it is gun safety and the last 30 years protection of the 2nd Amendment. But, they are still the best game in town to protect my rights, even if they aren't what they once were.
Democrats for sure are responsible for their actions. And I hate it when they use tragedy to push their agenda. My biggest issue is really neither side is doing anything about it. And it should come from the NRA, as you said, they used to be a safety organization. Democrats have good intentions but are very bad at messaging (I'm taking the lunatic fringe "confiscate guns" folks out of this discussion). And the NRA just wants to add more guns to the mix. Neither is productive.
My true fear is that this continues as is for a while, with no one doing anything. Then it breeds something so tragic that people rights to own guns are truly taken away. Whereas the NRA and Democrats could step in now, find common ground, and get something passed before it's too late.
Unless the Democrats in office have taken zero money from the NRA, they are just as corrupt as the Republicans who have. There will never be any guns taken away from any responsible gun owners. Guns are already taken away from people who have committed violent felonies. The next step is federal background checks for the purchase of fire arms. Over 90% of the country wants that to happen but it still hasn't yet because too many politicians on both sides are in bed with the NRA. We have to elect people who are not taking bribe money.
What is this? Two cherry picked mass shootings? One is in Africa. We're talking about fucking America here.
A Turkish immigrant? Cool, nobody said ONLY white people commit these mass shootings. Just that the majority of them are committed by young white men here in America. White people need to get control of their fucking children and the government needs to do something to help prevent this from happening. This shit is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable for our country.
I agree with Swaye but I have to ask that if we are limiting constitutional rights where does it stop? How about an IQ, background check, mental exam and drug test to vote? Government is already far too intrusive and overbearing.
Purchasers already undergo background checks. So no prior violent or felonious convictions. Gun safety isn't rocket science. We should really teach it in elementary school. It would save lives.
Red flag has the legal dilemma of zero due process. Someone can make an accusation that's absolutely baseless and the accused has to prove his innocence. Sounds completely un-American. Some sort of provable verifiable threat fine. Present that evidence to a judge in a process similar to a search or arrest warrant.
Mental illness is a problem. As I said before pretty much every school shooter has been on anti depressants. Many on ADD drugs as well. Should people taking these or others have firearms ownership suspended?
So many factors come into play it's nearly impossible to cover every possibility. The 2nd amendment is a limit upon our government not a limit upon our citizens. The government having total say on who can purchase and own is a dangerous thing . Just a few thoughts on the subject.
Comments
The United States Marines! That's who.
Whitman scared the fuck out of me but I was about 10 years old. It was one of the first mass shootings to enter the public mind. Nobody knew why
I blamed LBJ and his support of white supremacy but no one listened
But laying all this at the NRAs feet is BS. They are certainly a party to it, but the DNC is an equal partner in the acrimony.
I do agree, as a Life NRA member and guy who got my first real professional safety training from them in the early 80's as a kid, that the NRA has strayed from their core mission the last couple of decades. That change also coincided with the AWB I might add. The NRA saw safety in money, and cozied up to the gun manufacturers as a way to increase their power. I am very much nonplussed that half the shit I receive from the NRA now is offers to buy insurance or some other bullshit. That is not their mission - it is gun safety and the last 30 years protection of the 2nd Amendment. But, they are still the best game in town to protect my rights, even if they aren't what they once were.
Never owned a gun or joined a group. Always been a big fan of the Bill of Rights though and never trusted the government.
'Hate Speech Laws' to overturn the right to speak freely. 'Red Flag' Gun Laws to make it easy for the state to confiscate guns, first from the 'mentally ill' but gradually more classes of people will be added to that list until eventually everyone and their guns will be a state target. 5g weaponry and surveillance installed on every block. The social credit score system is coming.
The NSA listens in on everything you say and do. The CIA engages in clandestine experiments on US citizens and attempted coups of duly elected presidents. The IRS engages in massive theft and political intrigue. They are all criminal organizations that peddle tyranny.
Unfortunately the population is too ill-informed, brainwashed and lethargic to do anything about it. They would get run over like a car, then ask the driver to please back up and run them over again. The greatest generation is gone and the backthepack generation have more in common with nazis and communists than they do with blue-blooded OG patriots like us.
Orwell would be so proud.
When it comes to indiscriminate mass shootings or racially motivated mass shootings, that's almost exclusively a young white male thing and/or a right-wing extremist thing. If black people or Arabic Islamic extremists were going into malls, movie theaters, or schools and shooting up a bunch of white people in this country, there would be mass hysteria from the right-wing. But because the shooters are almost always white guys you never hear a peep out of them besides condolences for the families. No proactive attempts at legislation to prevent more mass shootings from happening. They'd rather cash their checks from the NRA and do nothing. Corrupt bastards.
My true fear is that this continues as is for a while, with no one doing anything. Then it breeds something so tragic that people rights to own guns are truly taken away. Whereas the NRA and Democrats could step in now, find common ground, and get something passed before it's too late.
A Turkish immigrant? Cool, nobody said ONLY white people commit these mass shootings. Just that the majority of them are committed by young white men here in America. White people need to get control of their fucking children and the government needs to do something to help prevent this from happening. This shit is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable for our country.
Government is already far too intrusive and overbearing.
Purchasers already undergo background checks. So no prior violent or felonious convictions. Gun safety isn't rocket science. We should really teach it in elementary school. It would save lives.
Red flag has the legal dilemma of zero due process. Someone can make an accusation that's absolutely baseless and the accused has to prove his innocence. Sounds completely un-American. Some sort of provable verifiable threat fine. Present that evidence to a judge in a process similar to a search or arrest warrant.
Mental illness is a problem. As I said before pretty much every school shooter has been on anti depressants. Many on ADD drugs as well. Should people taking these or others have firearms ownership suspended?
So many factors come into play it's nearly impossible to cover every possibility.
The 2nd amendment is a limit upon our government not a limit upon our citizens. The government having total say on who can purchase and own is a dangerous thing
.
Just a few thoughts on the subject.