Renewable Energy Is Now The Cheapest Option - Even Without Subsidies
Comments
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Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills. -
THIS is the single biggest issue. Storage and peak use times.WestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills.
Rivers run all night. Natural gas plants chug on when the wind doesn't blow. Coal gives no fucks on whether the sun is out or not.
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Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of ancient organisms. Because coal takes millions of years to develop and there is a limited amount of it, it is a nonrenewable resource. The conditions that would eventually create coal began to develop about 300 million years ago, during the Carboniferous period.PurpleThrobber said:
THIS is the single biggest issue. Storage and peak use times.WestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills.
Rivers run all night. Natural gas plants chug on when the wind doesn't blow. Coal gives no fucks on whether the sun is out or not. -
It happened when God said so. HTHGwad said:
Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of ancient organisms. Because coal takes millions of years to develop and there is a limited amount of it, it is a nonrenewable resource. The conditions that would eventually create coal began to develop about 300 million years ago, during the Carboniferous period.PurpleThrobber said:
THIS is the single biggest issue. Storage and peak use times.WestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills.
Rivers run all night. Natural gas plants chug on when the wind doesn't blow. Coal gives no fucks on whether the sun is out or not. -
Lol.Gwad said:
Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of ancient organisms. Because coal takes millions of years to develop and there is a limited amount of it, it is a nonrenewable resource. The conditions that would eventually create coal began to develop about 300 million years ago, during the Carboniferous period.PurpleThrobber said:
THIS is the single biggest issue. Storage and peak use times.WestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills.
Rivers run all night. Natural gas plants chug on when the wind doesn't blow. Coal gives no fucks on whether the sun is out or not. -
Thanks, dipshit. The mines and oilfields I've helped finance really appreciate the insight. You want to talk lithium storage? - working on one of those deals right now....oh, wait...lithium is a finite resource, too.....Gwad said:
Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of ancient organisms. Because coal takes millions of years to develop and there is a limited amount of it, it is a nonrenewable resource. The conditions that would eventually create coal began to develop about 300 million years ago, during the Carboniferous period.PurpleThrobber said:
THIS is the single biggest issue. Storage and peak use times.WestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills.
Rivers run all night. Natural gas plants chug on when the wind doesn't blow. Coal gives no fucks on whether the sun is out or not.
Someday the sun will explode in a massive supernova and solar will be gone too.
Oh no...what shall we do?!?
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Then it will naturally overtake the other forms of energy. That’s how markets work. Unless it’s bullshit
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Hate to burst your bubble. But wind and solar are working now. HTHWestlinnDuck said:Any analysis that shows renewables as cheaper than a combined cycle natural gas plant is at best dealing with half-truths and ignoring the actual cost of delivered power. If this were the case then electricity prices would be declining in California rather than being the highest on the western US. Utility scale solar power and wind power generally come from nowhere and need to be transmitted to somewhere. Additional transmission costs are never factored into building a new wind plant in Wyoming in these analysis. Any solar or wind power has to be backed up by base load power from either coal, natural gas, hydro or nukes. There is no other alternative other than periodic blackouts. If renewables were now cheaper, we should immediately terminate the massive federal tax credit incentives associated with new solar and wind. We aren’t because they remain essential to new solar and wind construction. If they were now cheaper, we wouldn’t need states to pass renewable energy mandates forcing utility customers to pay for this supposedly cheaper electrical power.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/why-wind-and-solar-will-never-work.php
WHY WIND AND SOLAR WILL NEVER WORK
This paper by Mark Mills of the the Manhattan Institute and Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science, titled “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking,” does an excellent job of explaining why wind and solar energy will never replace fossil fuels or nuclear energy as a primary energy source. The problem is fundamental: the laws of physics. And, no, better batteries are not a solution. I really urge you to read the whole thing:
* Solar technologies have improved greatly and will continue to become cheaper and more efficient. But the era of 10-fold gains is over. The physics boundary for silicon photovoltaic (PV) cells, the Shockley-Queisser Limit, is a maximum conversion of 34% of photons into electrons; the best commercial PV technology today exceeds 26%.
* Wind power technology has also improved greatly, but here, too, no 10-fold gains are left. The physics boundary for a wind turbine, the Betz Limit, is a maximum capture of 60% of kinetic energy in moving air; commercial turbines today exceed 40%.
* The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced.
“Green” energy is the 21st century’s most egregious instance of cronyism. A great deal of money is being made on account of government mandates and subsidies, while consumers and electricity rate payers are needlessly paying inflated bills. -
We NEED to do SOMETHING!
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Why? All for naught inCuntWaffle said:We NEED to do SOMETHING!
1211.5 years anyway.
