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Hello socialism, bye bye capitalism

allpurpleallgold
allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
in Tug Tavern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IBxaDrxjo

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS: An exclusive first look at a poll about socialism versus capitalism. It turns out the ideas pushed by Democrats such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez may have lots of support in their party, while capitalism isn't polling so well.

Frank Luntz found in an online survey of 1,000 people that 52% of Hillary Clinton voters agree with the statement "I prefer living in a socialist country to a capitalist one," against just 16% of Donald Trump voters. Asked about the AOC proposal to impose a 70% tax on the top 1% of taxpayers, 79% Clinton voters agree, and so do 46% of Trump voters. And veteran Republican pollster Frank Luntz joins us now. Before we get to more numbers, is the media kind of soft on socialism? I mean favorable press to Democrats like Bernie Sanders and AOC, being tough on flaws of capitalism, the excesses of big corporations.

FRANK LUNTZ: All you have do is read "The New York Times" business section. Typically seven stories, six of the seven will be hostile to a corporation or hostile to capitalism as we know it. In fact, it has gotten so bad that I started to say to people: stop trying to defend capitalism, it is economic freedom. Capitalism they think of Wall Street, profits, they think about losing their jobs. Economic freedom is Main Street, small business, why we are so successful as a country. It has been so demonized, and the rich and successful have been demonized -- the assumption now is if you made money you did so in an improper way.

KURTZ: It's interesting, 45% of Trump voters say some companies make such big profits it can't be justified. You are basically saying in this report, you say, capitalism is dead, at least as term people respond to, that is a pretty strong statement.

LUNTZ: I am going to get chewed out by Rush Limbaugh for the wrong reasons. It is not that the principles are dead, in fact, the principles of economic freedom are alive and well. But capitalism itself has been so demonized by media that... if you want to oppose socialism you oppose it by talking about freedom, not capitalism.

KURTZ: It must be more than just media coverage when you have, as I mentioned the top, half of Trump voters, supporting AOC's 70% marginal tax rate. You wouldn't know that from the coverage, you would think it is purely a left wing position.

LUNTZ: It is because the public is really frustrated about being forgotten or left behind. Those two emotions are what elected Donald Trump, and are alive and well not just on the right, but also the left. It's the reason Bernie Sanders did so well in 2016, and why I will be blunt with you, I think he is the most likely nominee in 2020. I will tell you something, Republicans should want that because Sanders cannot appeal to overall mainstream American people, and they should be scared to death if they get Colorado Senator Michael Bennett, who there is no issue about socialism there is no -- he is not the extreme he is mainstream. The reason why Sanders polls so well is because he is so left wing.

KURTZ: I'm getting two things from this, because even the media have said some Democratic candidates have moved so far left -- free college for all, Medicare for all, slavery reparations - that they would have a hard time winning a general election, but maybe in tune with what a lot of Democrats think. And secondly you say, well, capitalism, looks not great right now -- because of media. I am a big proponent of media have a lot of influence but do they have that much influence?

LUNTZ: Significant influence, you are correct the Democrats who have moved to the left are in tune with Democratic Party, just not in tune with mainstream America on this issue of capitalism. Republicans frankly need to wake up, that what they
believed was mainstream 10 years ago, but now the whole country is shifting, just a bit left.


I really enjoy that Bernie can't win in the general because his ideas aren't in the main stream but half of republicans want AOC's tax plan. Apparently "too far left" is half of republicans agreeing with you.
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Comments

  • Pitchfork51
    Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,691
    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?
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  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
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  • DerekJohnson
    DerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 70,124 Founders Club
    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
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  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    Thank you for proving my point that you’ll just make shit up.
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  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    The full comment is below. First he was talking about GOP policies in reference to Romney being elected, not Trump (was in 2012). Second, are you really comparing a one off comment to the drum beat that was Obama is a Muslim and Hillary emails? Or even FISA warrant and shit like that?

    Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to put you all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.
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  • MikeDamone
    MikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    edited May 2019
    2001400ex said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    The full comment is below. First he was talking about GOP policies in reference to Romney being elected, not Trump (was in 2012). Second, are you really comparing a one off comment to the drum beat that was Obama is a Muslim and Hillary emails? Or even FISA warrant and shit like that?

    Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to gunna put you all Y’all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.
    Yeah....Romney.

    https://www.apnews.com/2eda3c2355fe45408422fb5f7f5e2522
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  • MikeDamone
    MikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    edited May 2019
    allpurpleallgold said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IBxaDrxjo

    HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS: An exclusive first look at a poll about socialism versus capitalism. It turns out the ideas pushed by Democrats such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez may have lots of support in their party, while capitalism isn't polling so well.

    Frank Luntz found in an online survey of 1,000 people that 52% of Hillary Clinton voters agree with the statement "I prefer living in a socialist country to a capitalist one," against just 16% of Donald Trump voters. Asked about the AOC proposal to impose a 70% tax on the top 1% of taxpayers, 79% Clinton voters agree, and so do 46% of Trump voters. And veteran Republican pollster Frank Luntz joins us now. Before we get to more numbers, is the media kind of soft on socialism? I mean favorable press to Democrats like Bernie Sanders and AOC, being tough on flaws of capitalism, the excesses of big corporations.

    FRANK LUNTZ: All you have do is read "The New York Times" business section. Typically seven stories, six of the seven will be hostile to a corporation or hostile to capitalism as we know it. In fact, it has gotten so bad that I started to say to people: stop trying to defend capitalism, it is economic freedom. Capitalism they think of Wall Street, profits, they think about losing their jobs. Economic freedom is Main Street, small business, why we are so successful as a country. It has been so demonized, and the rich and successful have been demonized -- the assumption now is if you made money you did so in an improper way.

    KURTZ: It's interesting, 45% of Trump voters say some companies make such big profits it can't be justified. You are basically saying in this report, you say, capitalism is dead, at least as term people respond to, that is a pretty strong statement.

    LUNTZ: I am going to get chewed out by Rush Limbaugh for the wrong reasons. It is not that the principles are dead, in fact, the principles of economic freedom are alive and well. But capitalism itself has been so demonized by media that... if you want to oppose socialism you oppose it by talking about freedom, not capitalism.

    KURTZ: It must be more than just media coverage when you have, as I mentioned the top, half of Trump voters, supporting AOC's 70% marginal tax rate. You wouldn't know that from the coverage, you would think it is purely a left wing position.

    LUNTZ: It is because the public is really frustrated about being forgotten or left behind. Those two emotions are what elected Donald Trump, and are alive and well not just on the right, but also the left. It's the reason Bernie Sanders did so well in 2016, and why I will be blunt with you, I think he is the most likely nominee in 2020. I will tell you something, Republicans should want that because Sanders cannot appeal to overall mainstream American people, and they should be scared to death if they get Colorado Senator Michael Bennett, who there is no issue about socialism there is no -- he is not the extreme he is mainstream. The reason why Sanders polls so well is because he is so left wing.

    KURTZ: I'm getting two things from this, because even the media have said some Democratic candidates have moved so far left -- free college for all, Medicare for all, slavery reparations - that they would have a hard time winning a general election, but maybe in tune with what a lot of Democrats think. And secondly you say, well, capitalism, looks not great right now -- because of media. I am a big proponent of media have a lot of influence but do they have that much influence?

    LUNTZ: Significant influence, you are correct the Democrats who have moved to the left are in tune with Democratic Party, just not in tune with mainstream America on this issue of capitalism. Republicans frankly need to wake up, that what they
    believed was mainstream 10 years ago, but now the whole country is shifting, just a bit left.


    I really enjoy that Bernie can't win in the general because his ideas aren't in the main stream but half of republicans want AOC's tax plan. Apparently "too far left" is half of republicans agreeing with you.

    People surveyed are in favor of other people paying for them to live without given any other details. Shocking. Ground breaking.
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,215
    2001400ex said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    The full comment is below. First he was talking about GOP policies in reference to Romney being elected, not Trump (was in 2012). Second, are you really comparing a one off comment to the drum beat that was Obama is a Muslim and Hillary emails? Or even FISA warrant and shit like that?

    Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to put you all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.

    So Hillary's emails and FISA warrants aren't real Hondo?
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,215
    MikeDamone said:

    2001400ex said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    The full comment is below. First he was talking about GOP policies in reference to Romney being elected, not Trump (was in 2012). Second, are you really comparing a one off comment to the drum beat that was Obama is a Muslim and Hillary emails? Or even FISA warrant and shit like that?

    Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to gunna put you all Y’all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.
    Yeah....Romney.

    https://www.apnews.com/2eda3c2355fe45408422fb5f7f5e2522
    Hondo how does this compare to the "drum beat" that Obama was a Muslim. I don't recall the GOP front runner making that charge and yet here you have Biden claiming the GOP is bringing back Jim Crow.
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  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    edited May 2019
    SFGbob said:

    MikeDamone said:

    2001400ex said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    allpurpleallgold said:

    Pitchfork51 said:

    So...not socialism

    Have you guys ever thought of getting a different name?

    For a while I did wish they just wouldn’t use that word. It seemed like it would make it so much easier. But that’s not true. No matter what, the other side is going to fight tooth and nail and use unfair and untrue attacks. AOC wants to ban hamburgers and airplanes. We can’t afford Bernie’s Medicare For All.

    Stop socialism is a rallying cry for the retarded. And if it wasn’t socialism, they’d attack with some other bullshit. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary’s emails.

    They aren’t backing down to republican bullying the way centrist democrats have for 15 years. And I respect it.
    You mean like how Joe Biden says Donald Trump wants to return black people to chains?

    Just curious, do you denounce that as well?
    The full comment is below. First he was talking about GOP policies in reference to Romney being elected, not Trump (was in 2012). Second, are you really comparing a one off comment to the drum beat that was Obama is a Muslim and Hillary emails? Or even FISA warrant and shit like that?

    Biden told more than 800 ticketed supporters that Romney wants to repeal the financial regulations enacted after the Wall Street crash of 2008. "He's going to let the big banks once again write their own rules - unchain Wall Street!" Biden said. Then he added, "They're going to gunna put you all Y’all back in chains" with their economic and regulatory policies.
    Yeah....Romney.

    https://www.apnews.com/2eda3c2355fe45408422fb5f7f5e2522
    Hondo how does this compare to the "drum beat" that Obama was a Muslim. I don't recall the GOP front runner making that charge and yet here you have Biden claiming the GOP is bringing back Jim Crow.
    Are you really that stupid Bob? If you were to poll people in 2012 or right now, and ask them if Romney or Trump were putting black people in chains or bringing back Jim Crow, the number that say yes would be close to zero. You poll people in 12 and there's a large number they thought Obama was a Muslim.

    HTH but I know it won't.
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